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    What if Germany would kill Jews like the US kills Black People?
    By Sascha Vongehr | March 6th 2012 04:00 AM | 20 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Sascha

    Dr. Sascha Vongehr [风洒沙] studied phil/math/chem/phys in Germany, obtained a BSc in theoretical physics (electro-mag) & MSc (stringtheory)...

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    Another interesting TED talk: Bryan Stevenson shares some hard truths about America's justice system. Intellectuals who want to tell other countries how to be civilized while ignoring mass-incarceration of vast numbers of innocent in the US is a pet peeve of mine anyway, but the following touched me, a German, as a perhaps especially powerful comparison given that the charge of anti-Semitism is a dead-beat-argument that works so well that it hardly ever matters whether the accused is guilty at all either:


    “What would it feel like to be living in a world where the nation state of Germany was executing people especially if they were disproportionately Jewish? ... And yet in this country [the United States of America] in the states of the old south, we execute people, we are 11 times more likely to get the death penalty if the victim is white than when the victim is black, 22 times more likely to get it if the defendant is black and the victim is white, in the very states where there are buried in the ground the bodies of those who were lynched.”



    300 000 people in prison in 1972, 2.3 million today, 7 million on probation/parole, 13 year old children tried as adults and sent to die in Jail without parole; the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, one out of three black males between 18 and 30 is in prison or on probation or parole, in urban areas like LA more than 50%; 34% in Alabama lost the right to vote permanently.


     Don’t get me started on that most incarceration in the US is not even crime related but about issues like poor communities without proper healthcare turning to self-medication.

    Comments

    the US likes its X Industrialist Complexes. Every US citizen is a potential $$$ generators for the Prison Industrial Complex. The Prison Industrial Complex is adapting the US ecosystem where it can to streamline and maximise consumption. Of course, being utterly gluttonous, the PIC would attempt to maximise consumption without favour. But the characteristics of the US ecosystem being what they are, it seems that a particular socio-economic group is being favoured.

    vongehr
    I would prefer a less one sided presentation, one that perhaps recognizes the "favour" in terms of stabilization of the status quo and suchlike (in more system theoretical terms than just a group that one can conveniently blame), however, you are certainly correct with that the PIC is a major driver that has worked with all means to worsen mass-incarceration (regardless of race, age, anything).
    the US likes its X Industrial Complexes.

    Every US citizen is chock full of tasty $$$ goodness for the Prison Industrial Complex. Where it can, the Prison Industrial Complex is adapting the US ecosystem to streamline and maximise citizen consumption. Of course, being utterly gluttonous, the PIC would attempt to maximise consumption without favour. But the characteristics of the US ecosystem, being what they are, means one particular socio-economic group is easier prey than others. The US ecosystem has evolved this group (by its circumstances) into the perfect diet for the ravenous PIC.

    ... So, the problems are:

    Government serves the needs of whichever powerful body is most forthcoming with bribes (ie the government is on the market)

    Capitalism and Free Market is a religion: therefore it's assumed that mankind is best served by every possible industry and service being motivated and governed by profit (ignoring any evidence to the contrary, presumably because it's an illusion sent by the Devil to test Market faith.).

    African americans are crushed under the heel of the oppressive dictatorship of poverty and no hope => alienation and lack of respect for law, life and property. (Where's NATO incitement and support for their rebellion?)

    USians are generally racially sensitive. They regard african americans as a different race with a distinct, separate history. This means their desperate condition can be rationalized to be due to their racial characteristics. (Whereas it's actually a self and circumstance-maintaining feedback loop of poverty and no hope causing poverty and no hope)

    rholley
    a self and circumstance-maintaining feedback loop
    Yes, there tend to be a lot of those.
     
    Unfortunately, laws and procedures initiated by Gutmenschen tend to have an adverse effect, tying the hands of the law-abiding while allowing criminals to get away with more and more.


    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England
    Here are some actual statistics: http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrt...
    Be careful, you may not like what you find.

    vongehr
    I won't even look at the numbers at all - I do not care whether they would seem to support any of my writings. Such tables are fatally flawed due to perception bias etc. Read the small print under the table! White crime is simply not discovered or reported, and especially not constructed (police planting drugs, courts going straight to planned homicide rather than considering accidental man slaughter, ...) as much. Anyways - an incredibly large number is incarcerated for things like self medicating depression or ADD that should be entirely legal, especially in a country that effectively denies healthcare to the poor!
    MikeCrow
    Anyways - an incredibly large number is incarcerated for things like self medicating depression or ADD that should be entirely legal, especially in a country that effectively denies health care to the poor!

    Sascha, they're not denied healthcare, no hospital that I've heard of will turn away someone who needs treatment just because they can't pay, and there are lots of free clinics where they can get treatment for free. Plus don't you think if they can afford illegal drugs, they could pay for a Dr?

    You self medicate, do you do that because you can't get medical care for depression or ADD?

    Look, I would rather all drugs were made legal, but that's not the way it is, and the politicians who might accomplish that, are idiots when it comes to running an economy. Which is basically why the last time I voted for them was in 1976 at which time I figured out how big an idiot they really were.
    I would rather have a strong economy (including a good job and get to keep more of what I earn) than legal drugs.

    Never is a long time.
    vongehr
    they're not denied healthcare ... lots of free clinics where they can get treatment for free.
    Reality is a lot less simple, as I discussed in the linked article.
    if they can afford illegal drugs, they could pay for a Dr?
    Without insurance, the black market is cheaper. You seem to be unaware about prices in the US. Growing marihuana is free! Moreover, no healthcare professional (except for some in CA) is even allowed to prescribe marihuana for depression, although it is the drug with the least side effects of all anti depressives and should be one of the first few options that are tried (a bunch of people have horrid side effects from SSRIs).
    I would rather have a strong economy (including a good job and get to keep more of what I earn) than legal drugs.
    It is probably time to look into the huge costs that the war on drugs brings to the economy. Taxing weed and all that, these issues have been discussed in other places at length, make perfect economic sense. Or do you indeed think that the economy were even "better" (LOL) if we started alcohol prohibition?
    MikeCrow
    But there are free clinics, which should be able to treat ADHD and ADD.
    Most people don't grow their own marijuana, and most of those that do use expensive grow lights, few locations in urban areas have good growing conditions. And there are a few states that allow you to grow your own marijuana. And most people in prison are not there for simple possession of marijuana.

    And as I said, I'd like if it was all legal, prohibition doesn't work.
    I also don't think you can put a high tax on drugs, that just provide motivation for a black market.

    And I suspect the number of mothers scoring meth for their kids ADHD is pretty small.

    Never is a long time.
    vongehr
    Should ... most people ... blah blah blah. Sorry, but what do you actually know about any of this? I lived 10 years in CA - the whether there is perfect for pot. People use grow lights because if they plant stuff in the garden instead of the cellar, guess what, they go to jail! Free clinics that treat ADHD my ass. In the moment even those who have insurance have trouble getting Adderall. The US simply runs out of those meds every year because of idiotic war against drugs quotas. And now I am sick of arguing any further with somebody who thinks this is all just about blah blah blah whatever sounds good and supports your preconceptions. This here is a science column - not the redditors' urinal.
    MikeCrow
    So, if this is suppose to all be science, show me some science that supports your statements on what free clinics do or do not treat? And while you're at it, include some science on how poor people are turned away from hospitals.

    At least there are some states where pot is decriminalized, not so much for china.

    Never is a long time.
    Gerhard Adam
    At least there are some states where pot is decriminalized...
    While it is technically true, it is irrelevant.  Since I live in one of those states (Oregon), I've seen time and again how the federal government has superceded such state laws and brings perpetual prosecution on those that are licensed by the state to grow medical marijuana. 
    Mundus vult decipi
    MikeCrow
    Yes I understand this, but the Fed (as far as I've heard and read) doesn't involve itself in possession cases. Only when the quantity gets into the trafficking area, and usually only in large scale trafficking.
    Which is where commercial scale growers tend to fall.

    The more salient point is that there aren't many people doing hard time for less than an ounce of pot(unless they're fallen into a 3 strikes penalty clause, and then it isn't really a possession issue either).
    Never is a long time.
    Gerhard Adam
    Only when the quantity gets into the trafficking area...
    Which is exactly where the Fed acts to interfere in state laws.  Obviously one can't be licensed to grow medical marijuana and NOT be considered a distributor.  That's the point of the state laws, and the Fed routinely targets such individuals for prosecution.
    Mundus vult decipi
    MikeCrow
    Which was why I pointed out that large scale growers do get unwanted federal attention.

    But all of this isn't what Sascha is complaining about, I'm going to guess most medical pot growers are white. There aren't that many black growers to fill up our prisons.
    Never is a long time.
    vongehr
    Why am I not surprised that a right wing nut like you adds anti China propaganda if he runs out of arguments. Why you think Dali in Yunnan province is called the "Amsterdam of China"??? Oh yeah - you don't know this, because you know nothing about the world but your computer screen and the right wing trash you selectively click on. And guess what - it's growing everywhere in the foothills and mountains there without expensive grow lamps.
    rholley
    You might find this article by G.K.Chesterton amusing:

    THE SIN OF PROHIBITION

    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England
    rholley

    From http://www.zoigl.de

    The Zoigl-Star, a six-angular star similar to the Star of David, was the sign of brewers in the middle ages symbolizing the three elements water, earth and fire used for brewing and the three ingredients water, malt and hops. The importance of the yeast was not known at that time.

    A drawing in an old book dating back to 1403 shows a brewing monk and the star:

    Or, as Richard Wagner did not put it:

        O du, mein holder Zoiglstern,
        wohl, grüßt'ich immer dich so gern ...
     
     
    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England
    vongehr
    water, earth and fire used for brewing and the three ingredients water, malt and hops.
    Water twice? Should be a pentagram then, no?

    rholley
    A bit dangerous using a pentagram.
     
    Was Hexenverfolgung only applied to women?
     
     
    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England