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    Are All "Truths" Equal? Comparing Anti-Vaccine Parents To Kesey's "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
    By Kim Wombles | November 26th 2010 09:12 PM | 26 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Kim

    Instructor of English and psychology and mother to three on the autism spectrum.

    Writer of the site countering.us (where most of these

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    It seems a silly question to ask, given the self-evident answer: we know that all beliefs and opinions are not equally valid. Obviously, it's important to acknowledge that the person who believe something believes it to be true, but it doesn't mean it is.

    The reason I raise this question is that most of us in the skeptical community patently reject the assumption that all "truths" are equally valid. What matters is evidence. Where there is no clear answer, rather than assuming a position of absolutism regarding "truth," we tend to adopt a "wait and see" approach or an honest "I don't know" approach.

    This is not the case in most areas. Truthiness is often more important than truth.

    Chantal Sicile-Kira has a Thanksgiving post up at Huffington Post that troubles me. The part, I suppose, that bothers me most is this idea of truths, as if everyone's version of reality is equally valid and true. She writes, "The autism community has it's differing opinions, because all of our perceptions and experiences are a part of the mystery that is autism: we share a similar label but our personal stories, perceptions, beliefs, and truths are different. And this needs to be respected" (punctuation intact). Had she left it at perception and beliefs being different and needing to be respected, I believe I could endorse that. In order to communicate with others on similar journeys but with radically differing perceptions, we'll have to respect that those perceptions are different or no communication can occur. 

    It's this idea of truths, though, that pricks at me. Truth. I've used this line from Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest several times over the last few months as I work my way through to understanding other people's realities: "It's still hard for me to have a clear mind thinking on it. But it’s the truth even if it didn't happen."

    True. It's true to me if I believe it. This suggests that there is a wide gap between how scientifically and empirically based people would use the concept of truth and how the general public uses it. Indeed, there's a wide gap in the actual definitions of truth and how Sicile-Kira uses it here, and in how Kesey used it in his book. Theirs is a personal "truth," not an empirical, grounded-in-objective reality truth. It is a subjective "truth," one that can walk at complete odds with anyone else's subjective experiences. 
    truth
    "1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
    2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
    3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like:mathematical truths.
    4. the state or character of being true.
    5. actuality or actual existence.
    6. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
    7. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
    8. ( often initial capital letter ) ideal or fundamental reality apart fromand transcending perceived experience: the basic truths of life.
    9. agreement with a standard or original.
    10. accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
    11.Archaic . fidelity or constancy.—Idiom
    12. in truth, in reality; in fact; actually: In truth, moral decay hastened the decline of the Roman Empire."

    The saying "and the truth shall set you free" decries this personal, subjective and independent-of-reality truth. Kesey's narrator, Chief Bromden, relates his truth, his subjective, hallucinatory and often delusional experiences, and throughout the story moves back towards sanity and reality by backing away from the self-imposed isolation of a separate reality; his quest towards liberation and reality setting him ultimately free from the self-imposed silence and fog and reconnecting him with the wider world. Sure, it's an ambiguous ending in that he leaves the institution and strikes out, his future and future truths unknown. At the very least, though, the reader has a sense that there will not be a return to his fog or self-imposed exile. He will see the world from a more objective perspective.

    Not all people who create a reality distinct and separate from what mainstream society recognizes as close-to-objective reality will retreat from the fog, though, and it seems clear as time passes and more studies are done that show no link between vaccines and autism, that some parents and indeed, autistic individuals, as well, are retreating deeper into the fog. They, too, see the world in similar terms as Chief Bromden: there is a Combine out there attempting to coerce and force a rigidity of behavior and beliefs; for these individuals, it is not the institutional setting enforcing it, but the combined machinations of the pharmaceutical industry and the governmental complex working through the use of vaccinations to at best, damage an entire generation of youth, and at worst, engage in a eugenics program. It's their "truth" even if it really isn't happening.


    The question becomes, then, for those who see this as foggy behavior, how do we interact with people divorced from objective reality? Do their beliefs deserve respect? I think not. Do the individuals themselves deserve respect? I think that depends on how we're using the term respect. They deserve compassion, certainly. But I don't think we need to elevate distorted thinking and conspiracy theories as equally valid to scientific and empirically validated truths.

















    Comments

    Great post, Kim! It's important to challenge nutty ideas, especially destructive ones that gain traction in the news and entertainment media. The debunked vaccine-autism link is one of them. But it also important to make a clear distinction between the nutty idea and the person making it. That's not always easy, but it's how we keep the dialogue open.

    kwombles
    Thanks, Ken. No, we both know it can be incredibly hard at times to do. If you haven't seen the comments at the orginal post, http://kwomblescountering.blogspot.com/2010/11/are-all-truths-equally-va..., it's well worth the time to read them. :-)
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    Yes, can be a problem. I was discussing some issue with an acquaintance when he remarked, "well it's all relative anyway." My reply, "Fine, go show me a place on the planet where F=ma is not applicable." End of argument.

    kwombles
    :-) End of argument, indeed! It can be intimidating to realize how many people are wedded to their versions of "truth"; many of my online interactions in the autism community specifically reveal that people are fast and loose with definitions and are completely unaware that they overestimate their competence at understanding, for example, scientific studies. They believe their interpretation of reality is the only real one and that science is corrupted.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    I believe that reality is objective. But I also believe that science suffers from hubris when it labels lines of thought that diverge from its accepted consensus as "distorted thinking and conspiracy theories."
    And sometimes "scientific and empirically validated truths" aren't all they're cracked up to be, eg, the planet Vulcan, phlogiston, Martian canals, phrenology, etc.

    kwombles
    I'm not sure your examples are valid. When was phrenology ever scientifically and empirically validated? Science is a discipline and cannot suffer from hubris. Scientists and skeptics can. And distorted thinking is distorted thinking. It is not hubris to point out that people who believe that vaccines are part of a global governmental and industrial conspiracy to commit eugenics, just as one example. It's distorted thinking and conspiracy theories to believe that the moon landing is faked, that 9/11 was a governmental plot, that Obama was not born in Hawaii, etc.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    “Science,” whoever that might include, does not label lines of thought that divulge from accepted consensus as “distorted thinking and conspiracy theories”; it labels blind adherence to disproven hypotheses and hysterical reactions to those who have disproven them as “distorted thinking and conspiracy theories.” It was that same “Science” that did away with the errors you suggest, many of which were not universally accepted by all of “Science” to begin with: “Throughout, however, phrenology was rejected by mainstream academia, and was, for instance, excluded from the British Association for the Advancement of Science.” [Wikipedia] The term “canali” was used by astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli to describe a network of lines he observed on the surface of Mars. Canali means channels, not canals, but he was mistranslated. The channels were an artifact of the limitations of early telescopes, and describing them was a valid part of the scientific process. There was never a lot of support in “Science” for their being evidence of life of any sort on Mars.

    The consideration of numberless theories and their acceptance or refutation is the very soul of science, and the consideration and refutation of vaccines as the cause of autism is also part of that process. It is only the stubborn clinging to a concept disproven both in its facts and in the motivations of its originators that is hubristic and harmful in that it hampers the search for the REAL cause(s) of autism and distracts parents from appropriate courses of action.

    kwombles
    Great response; thank you. I wish I'd read it before responding to the above; you'd already done all the heavy lifting. :-) It'll teach me to respond to comments before coffee!
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    Glad to do my small part; your column is a refreshing oasis from the lunatic babble on the internet. I hate to lessen your estimation of me, but I’m afraid I, too, believe there is something very fishy about 9/11.

    kwombles
    Thank you. I'm sure we don't know everything about 9/11, but what we do know seems to suggest that our gov't wasn't doing its job very well. I was thinking more along the lines of the folks who think it was a missile that hit the pentagon and the extremist views that are out there. :-)
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    I’m afraid I can’t let myself off the hook so easily; I just may be one of those “extremists.” I’ve not studied the matter in excruciating detail, but what I’ve read does suggest that the OFFICIAL conspiracy theory just does not hold up. It scarcely mentions building #7, and I will not accept that a few office fires brought it straight down into its own footprint at free fall speed, evidence, according to the report, of a previously unrecognized principle of physics. I‘m no physicist, and my understanding is certainly imperfect and possibly way off base. But I do find it interesting that most who mock “truthers” do so on the basis of received disdain, not their own consideration of the facts.

    Gerhard Adam
    I think part of the problem is that we tend to abuse words like "truth" without requiring them to be defined. While truth can be applied to various contexts revolving around "facts" or information, the ultimate connection is to look at its opposite, which is deception. This immediately tells us that we aren't questioning the honesty of the individual reporting the data, but it also doesn't carry any additional validity simply because it's perceived to be true. If someone sees a UFO or claims to see a ghost, they may be telling the "truth" (in that they aren't being deceitful), but that doesn't automatically translate into factual or scientific either. In short, "truth" is not a word that is relevant when discussing evidence or "facts", since presumably the reporter of such is being "truthful".
    kwombles
    Yes, absolutely! The fuzziness of how we use language is in part to blame for this; accuracy and popular conceptions of "truth" don't perhaps blend together. People believe what they are saying to be true, to be right; if they thought they were wrong, they wouldn't think that way. That's part of the problem. The other part is that we've got a long ways to go in adequaltely instructing people in all the ways in which their minds can trick them and trip them up.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    It seems to me you do no good when you so easily label folks who still have reasonable suspicions about the source of their child's autism as still in the "fog" or conspiracy theorists. Studies which show no connection between autism and vaccines done by or connected with those same people who have a dog in the fight do not give me confidence in their conclusions. Just using the journalist's code of "follow the money" should leave reasonable people still asking a lot of questions. In this sense, I'll believe I will remain part of the lunatic fringe if it means leaving my mind truly open.

    Gerhard Adam
    The problem with your position is that you aren't maintaining an open mind as much as you are a cynical one.  After all, it isn't a question about science, but rather it is a question about the integrity of those doing the research.

    At some point you have to make a determination about who you're going to believe, so it isn't about "open-mindedness".  If you decide that current studies aren't to be trusted, then your problem will be in determining who isn't involved in this conspiracy. 
    You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to know that people will do just about anything for money and power, and they don't have to be organized. Continuing increases in the rates of autism, (which clearly indicates environmental impact on the immune system, still with no explanations), billions poured into the promotion of vaccines and into their safety and necessity, astronomical legal costs to be considered if it ever was proven that vaccines can also be dangerous to those genetically "loaded" for autism, ( so more than enough reason to deny responsibility), conflict of interest in the CDC, loads of secrecy surrounding the Simpsonwood Conference. We've moved well beyond just cynicism into irresponsibility if we don't ask questions.
    Just for the record, I'm not anti-vaccine. I don't want a measles (etc.) outbreak either. We need to do them smarter. Your average health worker gives them without really understanding them. Ask them about testing for titers to see if a child really needs one and many will just look at you confused. The current vaccines schedule is too influenced by profit and convenience. Parents are made to feel like they don't love their children even when they just ask questions.

    Next time you are at your doctor, ask him why they don't just give everyone the same hypertension pill. But they want to hit every child in America with the exact same vaccine at the exact same age, along with six others at the same time?

    Gerhard Adam
    Once again, what are the questions you're asking? Is it about the science regarding vaccines, or the integrity of the scientists? Is it about the organizations, governmental or corporate? Are there are sources of information (especially from other countries) that can help answer some of the questions? I am often quite skeptical, but one of the problems I've noticed in the vaccines case is that people keep hammering on items that are not relevant. First it was mercury (thimerosal), so that even when it was withdrawn and autism rates continued to increase people were placing blame on something that wasn't there. In addition, it's unfair to assume an "us and them" mentality when many of the people doing research may also be dealing with autistic children and do have a "dog in this fight". So to suspect a widespread conspiracy is much less reasonable in this arena than it might be in other political areas. I certainly don't know what's responsible and neither does anyone else. While questions need to be answered it is important that we ask the right ones and not simply lash out at the people trying to find them.
    I gave a bunch of questions. It is about the integrity of the science, scientists, corporations and the government. Even with thimerosal taken out, (which that kelation process doesn't totally remove, btw), those kids with broken kelation systems are still susceptible to even small amounts of mercury and other metals. Here's another question: if thimerosal is safe, why was it taken out of some vaccines? And why was it taken out of veterinary vaccines decades ago?

    It takes about ten years for the medical establishment to catch up with reality. The "us & them" mentality is slowly changing as more and more doctors and politicians are having their own kids and grandkids with autism. If we truly don't know what is responsible for autism, we shouldn't be so quick to condemn as lunatics those who still question the establishment which has a lot at stake.

    As far as lashing out is concerned, just ask Bradstreet and others what happened to them when they spoke out against the conventional wisdom. Why were the computers of a prominent practice in Florida dealing with autistic children suddenly confiscated? Why was the Lilly rider anonymously inserted into a Homeland Security bill (which is illegal) and then just as quickly removed when people started asking some questions?

    After a while, they are just too many questions?

    Gerhard Adam
    Why were the computers of a prominent practice in Florida dealing with autistic children suddenly confiscated? Why was the Lilly rider anonymously inserted into a Homeland Security bill (which is illegal) and then just as quickly removed when people started asking some questions? What prominent practice? What was the basis and/or charges? As for the Lilly rider ... these things happen all the time in Congress and while it may seem unsavory, it is hardly different from numerous other lawsuit exemptions that have been introduced in bills by congressmen. The problem remains the same. If you are looking for a conspiracy then no amount of evidence (or lack thereof) will convince you that one doesn't exist. However, it might be useful to consider the case of other countries that have also removed thimerosal to see whether they've seen any differences. The problem is that regardless of what you might think, there is no causal link that has been found by anyone (other than by allegation) that there is a connection.
    No amendment is to be anonymous. No explanation was given as to the reason for the confiscation. To say that the unsavory happens all the time should not make it acceptable to anyone.

    I am not looking for conspiracy. Evil happens all on its own all the time. This situation, as with most parents of autistic children was thrust upon me, (including the author of this article). I can't help what others like you refuse to see either.

    As to a link, the graphs showing the rise in autism follow the same curve as the graphs showing the increase in vaccine usage. I know statistics can be shown to indicate almost anything you want, but I don't want this. I've never "wanted" to blame someone else and play the role of victim. There's too much "smoke" out there to believe others, (with much to loose) when they say there is no fire.

    Gerhard Adam
    No amendment is to be anonymous. No explanation was given as to the reason for the confiscation. To say that the unsavory happens all the time should not make it acceptable to anyone.
    I'm not suggesting that it is acceptable, but if occurs rather frequently then it's not much of a basis for raising a fuss in suggesting something more sinister.  It also doesn't rise to the status of being considered "evil" despite how much we may dislike the practice.

    As for your point regarding the confiscation ... you haven't mentioned what firm was involved, nor what the alleged charges or basis for the confiscation was.  You simply implied that somehow someone was employing strong-arm tactics to silence someone.  That is a quite serious allegation and if it's true, then some details are warranted.  However, if it is an embellishment and an urban legend, then that's a different matter.

    There are more than enough people that are looking to capitalize on any unscrupulous behaviors because it sells news and breeds notoriety.  Therefore when someone ISN'T capitalizing on it, it leads me to believe there's little fire despite the appearance of smoke.  After years and years of hearing about this, I expect more detail than is forthcoming and if you really mean to suggest that there's a conspiracy afoot, let me point out something .... none of the players involved are competent enough to maintain a conspiracy, which is precisely why we always think they are corrupt.  None of them can keep the most basic of secrets.
    Gerhard Adam
    "I can't help what others like you refuse to see either." It isn't a question of refusing to see, the point is that there is nothing there to see except speculation. If there is something to see, then by all means, show it. Using innuendo and suspicious behaviors without more concrete evidence doesn't constitute proof.
    I tried. My time is more valuable than this. I pray you never have to experience a family member with autism. They are often otherwise physically healthy with an aggressive immune system, which means they will likely outlive their parents (which are their primary caregivers). Not something I like to contemplate.

    kwombles
    As the mother of three wonderful children who happen to be on the spectrum, I want you to know how incredibly offensive I find your comment "I pray you never have to experience a family member with autism." Wow. I'm personally relieved you've decided your "time is more valuable than this."
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.
    You misunderstand. Mine is a blessing from God as well. I do not look forward to the day when I can no longer look after of my child. I am concerned you do not seem to see this.

    Of course, I'm the one living in the fog, apparently. (A comment which I find incredibly offensive.)

    kwombles
    Who would look forward to that day? Any reason you're doing an appeal to pity here along with concern trolling? I don't know you nor just how far your beliefs regarding governmental conspiracies extend, so I wouldn't presume to judge whether your thinking is distorted enough to merit being seen as living in the fog. You'd have to tell me if you felt the following paragraph applied to your belief system: "Not all people who create a reality distinct and separate from what mainstream society recognizes as close-to-objective reality will retreat from the fog, though, and it seems clear as time passes and more studies are done that show no link between vaccines and autism, that some parents and indeed, autistic individuals, as well, are retreating deeper into the fog. They, too, see the world in similar terms as Chief Bromden: there is a Combine out there attempting to coerce and force a rigidity of behavior and beliefs; for these individuals, it is not the institutional setting enforcing it, but the combined machinations of the pharmaceutical industry and the governmental complex working through the use of vaccinations to at best, damage an entire generation of youth, and at worst, engage in a eugenics program. It's their "truth" even if it really isn't happening." If that does, indeed, represent your position, then, well, okay, I would say you're foggy.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” --MLK, Jr.

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