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    Why do trolls always resort to ad hominem attack when the subject is evolution or anthropomorphic warming??
    By Georgie Mackintosh | June 10th 2012 12:34 AM | 15 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Georgie

    I am a 4 year old Beagle, and I work in a research lab working on renewable, carbon neutral non toxic bio-fuels to replace coal. My primary duties...

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    People never fail to amaze me: when they think they are anonymousthey will say the nastiest things to each other.  I have been reading a number of the commentson articles about evolution vs creationism and global warming.  Those opposed to the science presented havebecome like Rabid Dogs attacking the author of the article rather than thesubstance of the article.

    In learned debate, the party resorting to an ad hominemattack is acknowledged to be boors who have no manners AND have lost thedebate. When you result to a personal attack on the author it is clear you havenothing further to contribute to the discourse.

    So if you want to win friends and influence the debate,present well research facts and be polite even a middle school student knowsthat.

    So Why do people resort to name calling? I don’t know, ifyou said those things to the dog next to you, you might get bitten. Dogs aresensitive to ad hominem attacks and we don’t get sarcasm.

    It seems when you can be anonymous it brings out the worstin humans.  Those that write the nastiestthings are anonymous and have not registered on the site.  I wish these people would just grow up andrealize nobody is anonymous on the internet: Hank and others know who you areand where you live. 

    As an example I did was on a site half way across the worldwhere someone emailed me that she was going to kill herself. The site was achat site where all were anonymous. It took less that ½ hour to get help to herdoor, she was in London on a London site and I was in Canada at the time.  So just because you think it is anonymous youcan be found and held accountable for what you say.

    I am saddened that those trolls posting nasty comments thinkthat by personal attacks they will win an argument.  I can’t help thinking the trolls are mostly American.I am sitting in Guangzhou writing this. Over here we know we are not anonymouson the web. And, No, They don’t eat dogs over here anymore. Having a pet dog isa symbol of wealth; like having a Porsche only cheaper.

    So let’s all try to be respectful when posting. Some of usare smarter than others but brains do not give you the right to be nasty. Scienceis about evidence and proof or disproof of theory. Wishing something to be sowill not make it so.  A Christian god didnot make the world in 6 days 6000 years ago. No matter how hard you wish andpray the facts will not change.


    Comments

    vongehr
    Those opposed to the science presented have become like Rabid Dogs attacking the author of the article rather than the substance of the article.
    You simply suffer from biased perception. "New atheists" and pseudo skeptics etc are as insulting and off topic, yet you think that the insults from your own side are harmless. Guess what - change your point of view, and suddenly you may understand why it is, for example, deeply insulting if you belong to the very group that corrupts the peer-review system yet "just state the fact" that xyz has no peer-reviewed published research to back up her point.
    I am sitting in Guangzhou writing this. Over here we know we are not anonymous on the web. And, No, They don’t eat dogs over here anymore.
    I am in China and we eat dogs and cats. They are very tasty and are eaten a lot especially in Guangzhou. That you write such a blatant lie just proves how much less trustworthy you pseudo-progressives are compared to upright and honest creationists who admit to their belief.
    Georgie
    Hi Sascha,
    You should get some meds, attack not and you will not be attacked. 

    Yes, I am in Guangzhou, I could send you a picture out my window if you wish.  Perhaps we could meet up at the Tavern in Guangzhou, ( Panyu actually) for a Guinness, Yes real Guinness on tap. Google it and you will get the address. If you go there you will find it is the only tavern i have ever seen with a childrens play area.

    Perhaps, you have not been in Guangzhou lately or been reading China Daily. Dogs and cats are the new status symbol here.  The finer restaurants do not serve them anymore and i have many friends who have dogs as pets. 

    I was referring to the nasty troll types and not those with learned arguments and honest beliefs. I like funamentalists so much i actually hired one once. He was an accountant, we all respected his beliefs because he spoke in an educated way expousing his faith and belief in the bible as fact.

    Surely even you dont like being called names. Your writing speaks loudly of you being a hurt and angry soul who i am sure those with a theological bent could confort.

    PS I wont say nasty things if you won't.  I also wont delete your comments as I feel that you have a right to be heard.

    Cheers,
    Georgie Mackintosh.
    A beagle in Guangzhou.
    _
    vongehr
    You should get some meds
    this being the first sentence by somebody who hides behind the picture of a dog in order to complain how those anonymous guys are so insulting.
    You may be up for this month's Science2.0 broken irony meter trophy.
    Hey Sasha,

    hundred of thousands of papers pass seer review every year, why do your papers not pass peer review?

    Just wondering.

    Hank
    That is not true.  What you mean to say is that a lot of papers are published in journals each year.  There are 25,000 open access publications alone and most of them are not peer-review, they are 'examined' by an editor for technical merit and/ or 'post-publication peer review' which means if no one reads it and criticizes it, it passed peer review.

    There are probably 25,000 that are actually what most people consider peer reviewed per year, still quite a lot.
    Want more no-nonsense, independent science? Buy Science Left Behind
    Rick Ryals
    Funny, but I saw the IDists making this same point about the antifanatics just the other day.

    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/06/anti-id_philoso060381.html

    What a coincidence.. NOT!

    Sascha is correct.
    Gerhard Adam
    The point is a simple one.  If someone wants to debate a scientific point, then certainly evidence is a requirement.  However, when two sides can't agree on what constitutes evidence, then clearly there isn't much to discuss.

    However, I would argue that there is a fundamental flaw from the ID perspective that needs to be considered.  No matter what belief someone holds, the "ground rules" indicate that this is a scientific discussion.  Therefore, as when engaging in any game, one must follow the rules of that game.  You can't simply make up your own and then complain that the game isn't fair.

    So, ID'ers have a responsibility to actually present evidence that has been researched or at the least observed in some form that demonstrates where the scientific principles don't apply.  This doesn't mean anecdotes are acceptable, nor does it mean that the tired old arguments about irreducible complexity and other nonsense are acceptable.  It also doesn't mean that ID'ers can conflate origin issues with evolution, since this is precisely what makes too many of the comments disingenuous.

    In the end, the real problem is that ID isn't interested in science.  ID is ONLY interested in trying to tear down evolution theory.  It isn't interested in replacing it with anything else.  It isn't interested in demonstrating how new insight can lead to new understanding.  It isn't interested in applying any insights into existing problems.  It's sole purpose is to denigrate evolution and replace it with a religious explanation.

    So, while you may think that ad hominem attacks are inappropriate, but I would argue that it is inappropriate to troll scientific sites when your interest isn't scientific.  It is inappropriate to comment on sites where your intent is merely to disrupt. 

    Personally I think the best response isn't the ad hominem attack.  It's the delete option.   I'm not interested in granting "freedom of speech" to people whose sole purpose is to increase confusion and lie.  Make no mistake, ID and creationism is a lie, because it is being presented as an alternative to a scientific theory [which it is not] and it is often being denied as being religiously based [which it is].  Therefore, it has no place as a point of discussion regarding science.  None, nada, nyet, nein. 

    Now, we can wait for the ID'ers and creationists to join in the commentary and watch their indignant responses.
    vongehr
    If someone wants to debate a scientific point, then certainly evidence is a requirement.  ... the "ground rules" indicate that this is a scientific discussion.  Therefore, as when engaging in any game, one must follow the rules of that game.  You can't simply make up your own and then complain that the game isn't fair.
    But that is exactly what "skeptics" do - they make up their own rules as they go along in accepting what belongs and what does not to, for example, scientific evidence. Logic trumps mere observational evidence any day, and if logic dictated that there is a god, then god having planted the fossil record would be the scientific conclusion! That new-atheists would never admit this and instead take out rhetoric truncheons to ridicule instead, that makes them enemies of science.
    conflate origin issues with evolution
    Precisely what 'new atheists' do when they scream "evolution is true" in order to argue against creationism.
    In the end, the real problem is that ID isn't interested in science.  ID is ONLY interested in trying to tear down evolution theory.
    The real problem is that pseudo-skeptics are not interested in science but instead in tearing down religion. That is what makes them so uninterested in using properly worked out arguments.
    I would argue that it is inappropriate to troll scientific sites when your interest isn't scientific.
    'New atheists' should stop trolling science sites? They write them! We have a problem!
    ID and creationism is a lie, because it is being presented as an alternative to a scientific theory
    In that case, it is better than pseudo-skepticism, because the latter is equally bad but claims to be science (instead of an alternative).
    Georgie

    Hi Hank,

    We are both wrong on the numbers of peer reviewed papers.

    “B.-C. Björk, R. Annikki, and M. Lauri. Global annualvolume of peer reviewed scholarly articles and the share available via different Open Access options.(Openly available at:
    http://oacs.shh.fi/publications/...)

    The authors used the most comprehensive citation indexes, Web of Science andUllrichsweb, for their analysis.They estimate that 1.346 million articles werepublished in 23,750 journals within 2006.”

    Downloaded from http://www.quora.com/How-many-academic-papers-are-published-each-year

    I cannot access the original article cited from here.  But I am blown away by the numberof peer reviewed papers published in the world yearly…

    Cheers,

    Georgie

    Wow!

    Hank
    This says academic papers, not peer-reviewed. The commenter used 'peer-reviewed' synonymously but that is not accurate. Even allowing for 15 articles per month in 50 journals (and there are not 50 anyone can name) in the top areas would still be bordering on a resource fail, all these other articles whether they are calling themselves peer reviewed or not (zealots at one open access imprint insist they are producing 10,000 peer reviewed articles per year - 300 per day. Yeah, right.
    Want more no-nonsense, independent science? Buy Science Left Behind
    rholley
    A Christian god didnot make the world in 6 days
    It only took God six days to make all those millions* of years.

    Also, you have lots of words run together.  I don’t know what software you yourself are using, but if I wish to compose an article of any length, I compose in Microsoft Word, and

          save as Web Page (Filtered).

    I then open the resulting HTML file in Internet Explorer, and copy from there into the Science 2.0 Rich Text editor.  Other browsers give merged words, but IE ‘comes clean’.  Hyperlinks are also carried over, but if you want them to open in separate page then you have to fix this in the Science 2.0 RTE**.

    * To me, a billion should be a million million.

    ** not 
    Raidió Teilifís Éireann




    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    Georgie
    Hi Hank,

    The number blew me away too.  As i Said i cannot get the original article here in china, I have problems with my internet connection. I am returning to canada on friday as i get three week out of china so i will look at it then.

    If you can download it, could you look at the article and see what they say. Perhaps if it is not too much trouble could you email me a copy of it?
     
    Cheers,
    georgie
    Georgie
    Hi Robert,

    Thanks for the advice, I did notice that after i posted the article.

    I write in microsoft word and cut and pasted it into the science 2.0 editor. 
    I will follow your advice in future, I must say I always enjoy your comments and writings on the site.

    Thanks for the help,
    georgie
    Georgie

    Dear Sasha,

    Regarding your comment about my hiding my identity. I do not. I use my real name; I am registered on the site so my email address has been verified.  Trolls don't do this and so are anonymous.

    The picture of a beagle goes with the title of the Blog: A dog with a Blog.   Writing from the perspective of an outsider or a beagle in this case is a literary device. Perhaps you should read up on English literature?

    So it is not Ironic, Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word Ironic as you clearly don’t know what it means.

    As for the meds comment it was used in the same manner Bart Simpson uses the phrase “Lightenup Dude”

    In closing, your comment is not ironic, only moronic. 

    Warmest Regards,

    georgie