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    Michael Jackson: The Castrato? Comparing Jackson to a great singer of the past who was.
    By Hontas Farmer | June 28th 2009 07:47 PM | 396 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Hontas

    Currently I am a adjunct professor in physical sciences at the City Colleges of Chicago with a MS from DePaul University. My research focuses on...

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    Michael Jackson had a voice which was sublime, other worldly for it's softness and notable for it's soft childlike qualities even when he was in his 40's.  Castrati were castrated  men who by nature or human action had similar voices and were common in the 17 and 1800's. 

    His voice  did not change much from "ABC-123", to Thriller.  He got bigger, his voice got bigger, but it never really broke.  His songs were timeless and there was much more to him than just a singing voice.  His creative genius, hard work and love for his art make him an unparalleled talent.  His music will be listened to and enjoyed for the next 500 years.  We were all privileged to have lived in the same era as he.

     There is only one kind of singer I have ever heard of, or heard an old scratchy recording of, with a voice remotely like his.  A male singer castrated before puberty to preserve his voice, a castrato.  This is not to say, insinuate or imply that I think ol Joe Jackson orchestrated an unfortunate accident to preserve Michael's voiceEndocrinological conditions can create castrati as well.  There are some compelling reasons that this explanation for so much about him should not be dismissed.  While I am no medical doctor, I know by virtue of my own experience and seeing the lives of others with my condition the power of the endocrine system.

    (If you want to skip the little history lesson.  Or you think I am nuts and Michael was just using falsetto..all the time... then skip down to the section "If you thought that this is just about Michael Jackson's voice and
    his voice is just falsetto and he's putting up a front, read here first.
    ")

    I can already hear some people saying that's ridiculous how could I even think such a horrible thing.   Hear me out and don't let the knee jerk way of thinking that any implication of abnormality in that region of the body is a bad thing.  Read on and you will see that this is a supreme compliment to him. That said I notice many similarities between the publicly known details of Michael's life, which are strongly suggestive of this.  Not the least of which was his sublime singing voice.

    Who/What were the Castrati?  Carlo Maria Broschi...Farinelli....

    Castrati were men with  singing voices in the mezzo-soprano, or Soprano range.  This would result from the castration of , or an endocrinological condition in a talented young male singer.  Thus natural puberty and changing of the voice would be prevented.   Due to this the young male singer's voice would retain it's prepubescent pitch tone, and quality taking on qualities unlike a male or female voice.  Specifically the pitch range beyond the capabilities of a male, and power and projection, in an era without microphones, beyond the capability of a woman. 1

    To bring this to life let me compare Michale Jackson to a singer from the past Carlo Maria Broschi a.k.a Farinelli.Farinelli ca 1753 Courtesy of Wikipedia 2   Carlo Broschi was born to a family of musicians in about 1705 in Italy.   When he was young his family was well to do, unlike most Castrati.  He was related to minor Italian nobility on both sides of the family, his father the mayor of a small town.  Then in 1717 his father died, Carlo was 12 and it must have been obvious that he was a talented singer because the decision was taken by an older brother of his to have him castrated to preserve his angelic singing voice.  The operation was not legal for this purpose so a fall from a horse was staged which would with the medicine of the day make castration necessary. 2

    He went on to a level of singing fame which for it's day bears a real comparison to Michael Jackson's level of stardom.  He was known thought Italy by 1722 as "the boy".2  Famous for his voice.  So high and so soft was his voice that he would sometimes take on the female roles in some opera's appearing en-travesti, dressed as a female.  This was a common thing for many of the castrati though it should be emphasized all indications are that their gender identities were male.  As a music critic of his day Johann Joachim Quantz :
    "Farinelli had a penetrating, full, rich, bright and well-modulated
    soprano voice, with a range at that time from the A below middle C to
    the D two octaves above middle C. ... His intonation was pure, his
    trill beautiful, his breath control extraordinary and his throat very
    agile, so that he performed the widest intervals quickly and with the
    greatest ease and certainty. Passagework and all kinds of melismas were of no difficulty to him. In the invention of free ornamentation in adagio he was very fertile.
    This kind of performance, his less than ideally masculine appearance,  and the flamboyance of A caricature of Farinelli in a female role, by Pier Leone Ghezzi 1724.his behavior, as can be seen even in the painting above, and likely jealousy resulted in criticism.  Best illustrated by this caricature of Carlo.    It is noteworthy that these men were not allowed to marry because as castrati they were unable to reproduce naturally, and in their more pious time the point of sex or marriage was children, at least officially.   Often the lives of these people consisted of music music music, and in so many ways they were shut out and distant from most people due to their differences and the phobia's of the masses.

    Farinelli would go on to a long career in the service of various Opera
    companies from France to England to Germany to Spain, and the courts of kings and queens.  In Spain he was named  to the order of Calatrava.  He was well appreciated for his works, and would die a wealthy man.  Though all of that came at a heavy price.  The childhood of these people was not like that of a normal child.

    The training of these men as boys was rigorous for this I quote a paraphrase of 3 as found in Wikipedia.

     The regime of one singing school in Rome (c. 1700) consisted of one hour of singing difficult and awkward pieces, one hour practicing trills, one hour practicing ornamented passaggi, one hour of singing exercises in their teacher's presence and in front of a mirror so as to avoid unnecessary  movement of the body or facial grimaces, and one hour of literary study; all this, moreover, before lunch. After, half-an-hour would be devoted to musical theory, another to writing counterpoint, an hour copying down the same from dictation, and another hour of literary study. During the remainder of the day, the young castrati had to find time to practice their harpsichord playing, and to compose vocal music, either sacred or secular depending on their inclination.3
    What does any of this have to do with Michael?

    It is from the musical training meted out by Joe Jackson to all his children that we see the first similarity between the life of Jackson and the lives of the castrati.   Like most of the castrati Michale Jackson was not born into a wealthy family at all.  His father was a worker in a steel mill in Gary Indiana.  He would also play in an R&B band.  The Jackson children all describe the harsh discipline, sometimes described, by them as abuse at the hands of Joe Jackson. They sang in their modest home as a family band consisting of Jackie, Jermaine, Tito, and Marlon.  Michael joined when it was noticed that he had a distinct singing voice, and could dance like James Brown.  Michael once said of the rehearsal sessions that his father would sit in a chair watching and listening and holding a belt
    "if you didn't do it the right way, he would tear you up, really get you". 4
    Michael and many of the other Jackson children credit Joe and his insistence on incessant rehearsals with their adulthood success.  6 

    This is all strikingly similar to the kind of training the castrati were subjected to.

    Michael's singing voice earned him high praise, he was called a prodigy.  By age 14 he had five hit singles to his credit (ABC-123, I'll be there, I want you back, and the love you save as the Jackson 5's lead singer, and Ben solo).  He was a virtuoso and more successful than most artist before he even hit puberty.

    Like the castrati Michael had a characteristically flashy and flamboyant life style.  Like them he suffered criticism for his not typically masculine ways.  I will assume that the personal details of his very artistic life are familiar so I will not repeat them here.  However it is known that he would dress in a characteristic style all his own.  Often imitated never duplicated.  He had a innocent and some might say feminine way.

    .
    Michael Jackson - From A Black Man To A White Woman. - More free videos are here
     Many black comics would joke that he had become a white woman.  In particular Red Buttons would joke in reference to Michael that :
    Only in America can a poor black boy grow up to be a rich white woman. 8
      The pointedly gender behavior centered criticism of Michael Jackson is again reminiscent of how the Castrati were treated.  Loved for their sublime voices yet kept at distance because of the very differences that made those voices possible.   Red Buttons words were an indictment of Michael's somewhat gender non conforming behavior and appearance, and a statement of the broad disbelief that he has not done
    something to lighten his skin.

    What his vitiligo and what his publicly seen about his physique, and private behavior tell us.
    He was diagnosed with a condition known as vitiligo.  One treatment for which is plastic surgery and makeup to create an even skin tone.  Vitiligo is associated with autoimmune disorders in particular disorders of the thyroid either being underactive or overactive. 9  Then consider what else the thyroid controls.... the thyroid is one gland which along with the pituitary conducts all the other endocrine glands in the human body including the reproductive organs. Symptoms of Hyperthyroidism and Hypothyroidism both include a suppressed libido and can contribute to hypogonadism.  An autoimmune disorder could also attack his pituitary gland which could also lead hypogonadism. Of course the autoimmune disorder which could cause Michale Jackson to need so many drugs and to be in so much pain could have directly attacked his gonads from a young age.  A persistent and progressive condition such as Michael's vitiligo was implies that this was not caused by some infection, he had a chronic condition of some kind.  The pathways I have outlined above are many ways that one could end up with suppressed puberty, lack of sexual development and hence in the case of one with his intrinsic musical talents, a otherworldly singing voice.

    If you thought that this is just about Michael Jackson's voice and his voice is just falsetto and he's putting up a front, read here first.  If you read all of this up to here good for you!  The rebuttal for that assertion would be obvious who paid the least bit of attention in music class in elementary school.  Falsetto is a sort of high pitched whine which is used by men who's singing voice is in the alto range to access at least one note in the soprano range. It is easily distinguished from a true soprano or mezzo soprano voice once the difference is pointed out.  A classic example of such a voice would be Prince

    Veuillez installer Flash Player pour lire la vidéo


    or Tiny Tim



    Compare those voices to  Michale Jackson in "childhood".



    Now compare that to a known Mezzo Soprano  Marilyn Horne..


    Last but not least there is one existing recording very old recording of a classically trained Messo Soprano, Alessandro Moreschi.  He was quite old and not in his prime when this recording was made.  

     Do you notice the difference between Michael Jackson's voice and the first two, the similarity to the last one?  Michael Jackson sings with lilt and changes in tone and pitch two  or three octaves above middle C.  He changes pitch and tone and his voice does not break in the least.  In technical terms he sings at that range in his modal voice.  Compare that to prince, who I would call an accomplished countertenor or contralto, he sings in his falsetto. Tiny Tim definitely falsetto.

    As for Marilyn Horne's voice Michael Jackson could have hit every single one of those notes without the least bit of strain and sang in that register with no difficulty and not once a falsetto note.  Listening and comparing his voice to that of Michael Jacksons, and Prince and Tiny tim.  Notice that Moreschi, like Jackson and Horne can sing with litl and changes of pitch with no strain  or difficulty.  Prince and Tiny Tim on the other hand have a high monotone expressed through their nasal cavity as all falsetto ranges are. Michael Jacksons voice in terms of pitch range, flexibility in that high range, tone, and resonance is more like that of Alessandro Moreschi's or Marilyn Hornes than Prince's or Tiny Tim's.  In short Michale Jackson's voice was that of a Mezzo-Soprano or Soprano.

    In My Humble but Informed Opinion.

    His voice and it's Soprano or even mezzo-Soprano register is the strongest evidence that Michale was a modern Castrati.  While I AM NOT SAYING that he was forcibly physically castrated or any such thing, he could only have had the singing and speaking voice he did by way of some kind of endocrine problem. No ammount of training alone can effect a male voice to sound like his singing voice.  A problem born of the root autoimune condition that took his skin color and possibly contributed to his death  could have caused hypogonadism and delyaed or much reduced puberty and masculinizeation.  Thus resulting, with hard work, and love of music in a singing voice the likes of which we may not see for hundreds of years to come. 

    References:





    1. "Castrato" Wikipedia Accessed June 28 2009.






    2. "Farinelli" Wikipedia Accessed June 28 2009.






    3. Bontempi, G: Historia Musica (Perugia, 1695), p. 170






    4. Taraborrelli, p. 602 via Wikipedia. 






    5. "Michael Jackson". Rollingstone.com. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5940053/35_michael_jackson


















    6. "Blacks Sound Rally Cry For Jackson" CBS News






    7. Jin Y, Mailloux CM, Gowan K, Riccardi SL, LaBerge G, Bennett DC, Fain PR,
      Spritz RA (2007). "NALP1 in vitiligo-associated multiple autoimmune
      disease". N. Engl. J. Med. 356 (12): 1216–25. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa061592. PMID 17377159.














    Comments

    Interesting points and thoughts H. Farmer. Would it be surprising if a pharmacy of wonder drugs were used to maintain his vocal range? Maybe myth and reality will be seperated during the up coming years after M. Jackson's death.

    Hfarmer
    I am not a doctor like I said.  However I am pretty sure that there are no wonder drugs that can so raise the pitch of a anatomical males voice.   The only think I know that can do that is surgery on the vocal cords.  Even then there is the matter of the resonace of the voice in a matured voice box.  Michaels voice is just soo much like the Mezzo-Soprano's I noted that I really doubt that such surgery was performed. 

    I think some endocrinological disorder is much more likely.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    H. Farmer, there may be another plus for your M. Jackson theory with doubts being placed on his genetically fathering the 3 children.

    Hontas Farmer, I was thinking it may be possible to make use of drugs or hormones to arrest testosterone development for the lowering of the voice. Up 'til my mid twenties I could hit the same notes as M. Jackson without pain and in my mid forties I could hit bass vocal notes.
    On a side thought, would you think Kenny Loggins is a castrato?

    Good article. Although I am unable to recall which interview Michael Jackson was giving at the time. But I exclusively remember Michael Jackson stating that Joe Jackson had kicked him so hard in his groin ( balls) that it made him ( Michael ) very ill...

    Well please read this cause I know Michael, he has a very, very deep voice BUT only when he wants to, there's videos all over YouTube of his voice deep, just check them out. Michael has a deep voice but usually his voice is higher, btw he is alive you know? He faked his death, I will tell you Michael is bisexual and i'm a boyfriend so I thought you might want to know, anywho Mike is alive and he's not got whatever you claimed.

    Well please read this cause I know Michael, he has a very, very deep voice BUT only when he wants to, there's videos all over YouTube of his voice deep, just check them out. Michael has a deep voice but usually his voice is higher, btw he is alive you know? He faked his death, I will tell you Michael is bisexual and i'm a boyfriend so I thought you might want to know, anywho Mike is alive and he's not got whatever you claimed.

    Well please read this cause I know Michael, he has a very, very deep voice BUT only when he wants to, there's videos all over YouTube of his voice deep, just check them out. Michael has a deep voice but usually his voice is higher, btw he is alive you know? He faked his death, I will tell you Michael is bisexual and i'm a boyfriend so I thought you might want to know, anywho Mike is alive and he's not got whatever you claimed.

    Ok, interesting, but too conspiratorial for my taste. Listen to Michael's siblings speaking voices, his older brother Jackee's voice is higher than his as is a couple of the other brother's has high voices. But as for castration or testosterone levels, I think you are thinking too deep into that. Yes, Michael took on an adrogynous look throughout his career, as did Prince and a slew of rock bands in particularly in the 1980's. That was just his thing. And the one thing that is bothering me the most is speaking of his sex life, it's obvious that Michael was a very private, and shy person, and if anyone knows private and shy people, they are the last one's to speak freely or candidly about their sex lives. So with that said no one knows what type of sex life he had and it really bothers me that men who choose not to be promiscuous are always labeled as homosexuals (especially black males). Alot of things that are on the internet about him is trully speculative and by him being such a private, somewhat reclusive person, he unfortunately left the door open for urban legends, conspiracies and fables that will be around about his for years and years to come. Who knows, maybe he wanted it that way.

    Ok, interesting, but too conspiratorial for my taste. Listen to Michael's siblings speaking voices, his older brother Jackee's voice is higher than his as is a couple of the other brother's has high voices. But as for castration or testosterone levels, I think you are thinking too deep into that. Yes, Michael took on an adrogynous look throughout his career, as did Prince and a slew of rock bands in particularly in the 1980's. That was just his thing. And the one thing that is bothering me the most is speaking of his sex life, it's obvious that Michael was a very private, and shy person, and if anyone knows private and shy people, they are the last one's to speak freely or candidly about their sex lives. So with that said no one knows what type of sex life he had and it really bothers me that men who choose not to be promiscuous are always labeled as homosexuals (especially black males). Alot of things that are on the internet about him is trully speculative and by him being such a private, somewhat reclusive person, he unfortunately left the door open for urban legends, conspiracies and fables that will be around about his for years and years to come. Who knows, maybe he wanted it that way.

    You guys are just makiing fun of him. He has a sweet, pure, angelic voice. You're just hating on him.

    listen to MJs voice slowed down .. and i think his speaking voice is alot deeper, but in media, he puts the singin voice on to speak.

    Michael Jackson was a natural normal countertenor or contratenor. Same thing. DIfferent than a lyric tenor
    or Irish style tenor. Jackson's voice BROKE around mid winter 1972-73. He had acne and underarm hair.
    Are you amusicologist at least? I have the Last Castrato album and theres no resemlance. Silly.
    Many African Am. men have high voices includinding big bro Jackie.
    This is ignorance.
    Elvis Presley was called a lyric baritone or sometimes possessed of a freakish "set" of voice when actually his Native Am.heritage created what could only be called a counter barione. His mixed ancestry left him with voice lacking a category wheras MJs voice category is known the world over. It isnt even strange to knowledgable
    white Americans who know voice. He coul dip quite low.
    This is another instance of Eurocentism. Do not confuse tragedy with talent again. Especially with a lack
    of multicultural knowledge. Again.
    R. Markowitz, Ph.d.

    yeah that is really interesting that what will be coming up this years myth or reality but really m jackson was having vertiligo???

    rholley
    Sounds very plausible to me.

    I also like it because it satisfies an Occam's razor principle of minimum skulduggery (now that's an interesting word which appears to have originated in Minnesota in the mid-19th century.)  There are far too many conspiracy theories around.
    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England
    Hfarmer
    That is one of the most appealing things about it.  So much about him goes from crazy to making some sense if he was a castrato (by nature or scalpel.) 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    logicman
    This is an interesting and well thought-out theory, Hontas.  If true, it would explain much. 

    Sony recently made a movie about Farinelli (Carlo Maria Broschi) using technical tricks to modify the voice.  There is an interesting Sony document, translated from French, giving details of this audio process which may interest you.

    http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/misc/farinelli.htm
    Hfarmer
    I am going to take a look at that.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Fossil Huntress
    A very well written piece, Hontas. In Michael's case, endocrinology could put many of the pieces together... his slight size, a body that never matured, a voice that remained high and angelic, his childlike obsession with being a man-boy and living in a true wonderland.

    Castrati or no, he was a genius. Some are sad that he has gone before his time. My thought (while it may seem cruel and unpopular) is that he didn't go soon enough. I wish he'd left in his heyday, energized, happy and feeling on top of the world.
    Interesting read.

    The autopsy, once released, should confirm or refute this theory. I actually believe that Joe had MJ castrated to preserve his voice and is the reason why his sperm wasn't used on his 2 kids by Debbie Rowe & his other child by another surrogate mother as he couldn't produce any. Liza Minelli is quoted as saying "all hell is gonnea break loose once the autopsy reports are released" mabey she knows about MJ's possible castration.

    Whatever MJ did or didn't do in life he will have 2 answer to The Most High G-D Of Abraham as will we all in death.

    Joe Jackson sold his kids souls to the devil (the baphomet sponsored entertainment industry) for fame (imo).

    Hfarmer
    Well maybe maybe not.  You see I am not saying that Michael had his teste's surgically removed.  I am saying that his autoimune condition which lead to his life long vitiligo, sicklyness, and a serries of plastic surgeries may have also prevented or muted his puberty.   This is the kind of thing that you could not tell from the outside.  He could have a conditon like that, and have male genitalia that would be very small and non-functional but present and intact. 

    What could confirm this would be, his blood work, and histological examiniation of his testes (taking a biopsy and looking at a small piece under a light microscope).  If his blood work indicates very low testosterone, that would be an indicator.  If they look at the cells of his testes and they haven't, or only partially have adult characteristics that would affirm my theory.

    However I have real doubts that they would look for that.  Even for someone like Michael and his family having it revealed that he was not a fully intact and functional male would be considered a extreme degradation.  Trust me on that.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Thank you Hontas. This was a very interesting and well reasoned piece.

    Don't expect the autopsy to answer any of these questions. The medical examiner is concerned about cause of death and possible criminal or negligent conduct. He is waiting for toxicology reports, not results from biopsies or bloodwork showing testostorine levels. I can't see where that information would be relevent to a cause of death inquiry. (As it should be, imho).

    If it is a case of endocrine disorder, I can't see where it would be relevant in any criminal or civil trial. If Joe castrated his son, though, then it would be relevant in any child custody cases if he has access to the children.

    Very, very interesting Hontas! This would explain a lot of things. However, there is one thing that it does not explain, WITHOUT the presence of testosterone, there is no facial hair. How do you explain the mustache/beard he had faintly growing on his face when everyone was calling him Wacko Jacko? That is the only thing that does not fit into your theory, other than that you seem spot on!
    Bonnie

    One more thing Hontus:

    You don't have to remove penis or testis. Nowadays you could just cut the blood supply to the scrotum and that would have the same effect as castration--NO TESTOSTERONE. This theory also explains the extreme sadness after approximately 14 years of age. I think Joe did it and they didn't tell him, he discovered it on his own. He got sadder the older he got.

    Well, the pictures might be faked, but you can apparently see a bit of them in his video with Lisa Marie Presley, "You Are Not Alone," in the opening portions, and they're not at all small.

    I would speculate that if something was done to him, it was done fairly late, possibly age 13 or 14, just as he was reaching puberty -- when his genitals had already grown. Could this have been some kind of incomplete mutilation short of full castration?.

    rholley
    Robert H. Olley / Quondam Physics Department / University of Reading / England
    Good work on this subject. I do wonder about the chronology of events? In order to effect his voice the "castration" would have to have been done before puberty. I do not know the time line for the onset of the illness/disease conditions he suffered, but I have not yet read anything pointing to early onset of either lupus or vitilgo (sp?). I do not know one way or the other, but I think it is a legitimate question.

    Regarding the autopsy question: the autopsies were performed to determine the cause of death...not to determine the cause of his high voice. There is no reason for the autopsy results to address the state of his testes. So just because the autopsies do not mention it does not mean anything, at all.

    Hfarmer
    Well if he was physically castrated it would not be hard to notice.  If it was due to a chronic autoimmune condition it would have to be noticed as a byproduct of their other work.  i.e. If his male equipment is way way below average in some way, or if his testosterone is low in his blood work.  When they try to determine cause of death would they not screen for signs of all kinds of conditions?

    As for the onset of his autoimmune disease and vitiligo caused by it, nothing says it needed to appear on his face, or any publicly visible part of his body first.  He could have had it for quite a while before we would have noticed it.  

    The only thing we will ever know for certain is that he had a very unusual, otherworldly singing voice.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I m absolutely FASCINATED by this and I think you have hit the nail on the head...
    Question? I don't know about any of the other, but have you been listening to Jermain speak this week? He has the same ethereal, light speaking voice that Michael had...
    Also, I have always sensed that Michael was not a bad man...misguided perhaps, not in touch in some ways with reality, but not bad...maybe his "maternal" instincts were really just that...
    any chance he was given female hormones?
    thanks so much for all of the work on this...

    Hfarmer
    I have not listened to Jermaine speak.  However if he had the same condition (perhaps less intensely) as Michale then that could explain his voice if it is as you say. 

    However we need to be careful, men under stress sometimes speak in a higher pitch.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Sex linked hormones are connected with sleep, though, so their absence could trigger a sleep disorder.

    I do not have any reason to dispute your question regarding probable cause of his voice. There was a lack of testosterone. It could have been from natural causes. It could, also, have been from human intervention. Surgical scarring would be a definite answer. Chemically administered...not so definite. Naturally caused...maybe/maybe not so definite.

    Michael's father does not inspire my confidence, so I am perhaps prejudiced and should recuse myself from the inquiry? I have experience with psychopaths and I can not help but fear the worst. I will take a deep breath and hope my fear is unfounded.

    The autopsy can be extremely complicated and incredibly difficult to perform for any given reason. While it is ongoing there is not really time or resources to investigate "other" kinds of questions: "What was the cause of death?" That is the one and only question they must "try" to answer. There does not need be any mention of anything unrelated to that question. There could be, of course. But there will not be. Not for this or any other autopsy. The examiners just want to get the "cause of death" correct. That is a big enough job.

    Hfarmer
    I don't think they are going to search for the cause of his voice. Find it by accident on the other hand...  I am sure that when trying to determine cause of death they can and will look at all the major organ systems for the cause.  The endocrine system, which includes the reproductive organs, is one of those.  The various hormones secreted by our various glands control all sorts of aspects of growth and development.  If they are out of balance bad stuff happens. 

    When it comes to the possibility of a physical castration...
    Let me put it this way on Joe Jackson and Michael Jackson both are a little...different.   Michael by all accounts loved his art from a young age, when faced with the change of puberty possibly destroying his voice, he may have thought it better to be castrated and asked for it.  Joe Jackson is the kind of person who would say yes to that, as in , yes son you can go on singing like this for the rest of your life$$$.  I don't think he would do it against his will. Anyone who was castrated against their will would hate and want to kill the person who did it to them.

    Another voice for all to consider would be the voice of this young lady, Kim Petras.  She is a woman of transsexual medical history.  With parental love, and support her male puberty was suppressed she lived as a girl from twelve, and had SRS at 15.  She has tried her hand at singing, it's ok singing, I am not going to say she's as good as MJ. 



    Is there a note she could hit that Michael, Alessandro Moreschi, or Marilyn Horne could not, and vice versa?*

    *Just for any TG/TS/HBS/whatever people who may take offence to my categorizing Kim Petra's voice in the company of legends and historical voices...get a life.  Even a remote comparison to Michael Jackson has to be a supreme compliment for any singer.  Lord knows with the training (abuse) that Michael endured she could have been really and truly comprable to him. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Extraordinary! Great example! The boy voice is *so* clear amongst the adult female voices. One really can hear the difference.

    As mentioned elsewhere, it is not a question so much of range as of quality of voice and where is the voice more powerful.

    Query, though, whether this was parental "love." or overindulgence?

    Now, Hontas, no matter how smart you are you can not know about "anyone": "Anyone who was castrated against their will would hate and want to kill the person who did it to them."

    I am very willing to give Joe Jackson the benefit of the doubt, but I am not willing to vote carte blanche acquittal, yet.

    The human "race" (questionable term, I know) encompasses from the sublimely good to the sublimely evil. Where does Joe Jackson fall on that curve? I do not know. But I do not think that you know, either. I think it is possible he is guilty. You seem sure that he is not. I will agree to disagree.

    I do not think Michael Jackson was more important than anyone else. I do not think Albert Einstein was more important than anyone else. If anything the geniuses of the world need our love less than the..."limited"? But Michael's story is a once-in-a-lifetime example. He was both benefactor and victim of circumstances. Such a genius, and such a...non-genius. Could I command it I would take back his fame and genius, and give him a back a normal and good and happy life. I might be wrong to do that. I do not know. My omnipotence is running low today. But I know I would do it. Peace to him.

    Hfarmer
    Now, Hontas, no matter how smart you are you can not know about
    "anyone": "Anyone who was castrated against their will would hate and
    want to kill the person who did it to them."
    This I can know because as a transsexual woman I have seen the sheer terror in the eyes of a man when I discuss the process of SRS.  To mentally benefit from SRS or castration and the fundamental loss of almost all masculinity that goes with it one has to be mentally in the right place.  You have to really want it.

    I am very willing to give Joe Jackson the benefit of the doubt, but I am not willing to vote carte blanche acquittal, yet.


    The human "race" (questionable term, I know) encompasses from the
    sublimely good to the sublimely evil. Where does Joe Jackson fall on
    that curve? I do not know. But I do not think that you know, either. I
    think it is possible he is guilty. You seem sure that he is not. I will
    agree to disagree.

    Hmm you may be right, unlike you however I am not basically anonymous and could theoretically be sued for libel if I said something like that. I don't even want to take the remote chance of that happening.  So yes let us agree to disagree.

    If anything the geniuses of the world need our love less than the..."limited"?

    How to put this.  Genius's have the same needs drives and desires as anyone else.

    Take Richard P. Feynman for example.  He is known for visiting topless bars he would even have ideas come to him in such situations.   Well if he can do that why cant I flip the script and do what I enjoy in my personal and private time?  I could tell some stories about what I was doing when some of my best ideas came to me.  It's never been while staring deeply at a set of equations. I'll tell you that.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Usually, in dysfunctional families, a person who has been abused continues to be abused. For instance, I have a friend who sexually abused his sister as a child. Though he stopped sexually abusing her as an adult, he continued emotionally abusing her.

    It does seem telling the allegations that the family sponged off him as an adult -- tempting to believe that this was a continuation of a childhood pattern of abause.

    My friend and I came up with this castrato theory yesterday and then we found your well-researched, intelligent article. I think this is more than a distinct possibility. But I actually think Joe Jackson (crazy as we all know he is) could have been diabolical enough to have to have executed this. He was, after all, all about the career to the exclusion of any normalcy or family love. I will say it is strange that Liza Minelli (disreputable of a source as she may be) said that when the autopsy was performed all Hell would break loose. That could have been the ramblings of a melodramatic actress/performer (known to pop her share of pills) but what if she knows the big secret none of us do?

    Hfarmer
    That could be so.  I mean. Thinking that Michael Jackson could have affected all those things 24x7 is just absurd. 

    Like his voice.  Some have said to me "such and such" a celebrity friend of his says he talks with more based in private or when angry or under stress.  We saw him in video taped depositions talking just the way he always did in public.  Under that kind of stress the voice of someone just affecting a feminine voice would definitely break. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Great article, I can up with the same idea when I heard on the radio this week that he was not the father of his three children. High voice, no body hair, remained very thin espacially when you see his brothers next to him, psychological problems, hatred for his father. And the maturity of his voice is just astonishing when he's around 12 or 13 years old singing with the Jackson 5, his voice doesn't break and he sings with such power, which is impossible for any boy/teenager at that age. He was a star well before puberty, meaning they had plenty of time to come up with this idea and actually take the decision. And yes, only a few people from his entourage know the truth and have kept it. I really think this will come out once Joe Jackson will have passed away as well.

    I have suspected for a long time that Michael Jackson was castrato, and in fact found this site after googling it to see if others out there shared my suspicions. You are more generous than I with regard to hypothesizing how he became castrato -- I'm pretty convinced Joe did this to him. Michael spoke openly about being abused by Joe and alluded to an incident from his youth that was too horrible to discuss.

    If I'm right and this did happen to him at the hands of his own father, my heart breaks for the poor boy and poor man. I hope he is resting in peace.

    I to have thought that a lot of MJ's behavior and characteristics could be explained by castration. The theory it was caused by an illness seems plausible. However, all of people saying Joe Jackson had MJ surgically castrated are forgetting one important factor. I think Joe Jackson is a greedy, evil man and don't think he would bat an eye before having MJ castrated if it meant the money would keep flowing to his pockets. HOWEVER where on earth would he find a doctor willing to castrate a perfectly healthy (and famous) young man? The fear of lawsuit, not to mention the moral implication, would keep most medical professionals from doing surgery of that kind. I do think Joe Jackson would take one of his girlfriend's birth control pills and slip them to MJ in order to keep his voice from changing. (And remember in the late 60's and 70's BC pills had a much, much higher doses of estrogen than they do today) I think that is a much more likely scenerio than a surgical procedure. It would be very easy to obtain, easy to slip to MJ and if any suspicions are raised he could quickly stop giving them to him. (Surgical castration would be very easy to prove and could have meant jail time if it was uncovered.) I'm sure MJ would have been aware of what his father did on down the road and could explain some of his anger toward Joe - on top of the abuse and mistreatment. It would also explain why MJ's children aren't his biological children, his asexual exterior, voice and other female characteristics.

    So I believe if it wasn't his father secretly slipping him BC pills (or giving him pills and telling them its for his voice) then the possibility of it being a naturally occurring endocrine disorder is likely. I doubt the autopsy will let us know either way - but I truly hope eventually the truth on this issue will come out.

    Unity, I agree no surgeon would risk his/her livelihood to perform such a surgery. But I have to point out that a rancher might have a different idea about the need for a trained surgeon to castrate an animal, be it bovine or human. I'm just saying, it's done a lot on the ranch, and it doesn't take a college education.

    Hfarmer
    I agree a surgeon is not needed for mere castration with scrotum removal.  In my piece the procedure used in Europe to create a castrato involved drugging with opium, and applying pressure to the carotid artery to induce unconsciousness.  I have read and heard that the Hijra of India and Pakistan castrate by using opium, then castrating using a freshly broken pot shard as a knife, with (hopefully) one smooth quick cut. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I agree that castration doesn't require a surgeon if one is really committed to having it done - but I doubt Joe would have been desperate enough to attempt the procedure on his own. Nor do I think he would risk trying to find a friendly, but knowledgeable, farmhand to do the job and risk possibly losing his moneymaker to death or complications. Joe Jackson, was a steel worker with little education - not a farm boy - so I don't its a remote possibility he would have attempted a surgical castration without seeking a medical professional. Remember this would have been in the early 70's - no internet or easy sources of information on the procedure were readily available to your average Joe. I really think, if a natural biological agent is ruled out, that Joe using BC pills (or some form of estrogen) to give to MJ to deter adolescence is the most likely of all the possibilities. Of course, I don't know what the long term effects of giving an 12 year old boy estrogen for years would be, but I picture the results being much like MJ in his 20's. Not totally masculine nor feminine - but a mix of both. High voice, slender body, no facial hair apparent, smooth skin, basically a "pretty" slightly effeminite man. Which perfectly describes MJ in the 1980's. I just wonder if this is the case if he decided to keep taking the hormones for a number of years, or if he ever stopped taking them. (Of course, this is all 100% conjecture. But its a very interesting discussion)

    What about a well-aimed foot?

    Here an example of a normal voice developing over 10 years
    http://cips02.physik.uni-bonn.de/~scheller/stimmbruch/

    Jackie had a very soft voice as well
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL7G6VmGF9M&feature=related

    Michael, what do you like about girls? 4:10
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6VNpJnEEZs

    I first thought his vitiligo is just an excuse for his bleeching. But it seems to be factual after all http://www.bunte.de/stars/michael-jackson-seine-skurrilen-buehnenoutfits... etc
    So maybe he really had Lupus as well.

    Apart from that Michael has matured just like his brothers:
    http://images.929.com.au/2009/06/26/211742/Michael-Jackson-10-600x400.jpg

    Well they did some more / different sports than dancing and obviously ate a bit more than MJ. But Mike had just as many muscles as I have (as a dancer)
    http://kinbidhooonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mikejer.jpg

    And just as much body hair (thanks to net-anonymity) . [what about his brothers?]
    http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2009/06/large_michael-jackson-berry-go...

    If he really had some issues growing a beard (as he vigorously denied in Martins Interview) some doctor sure could confirm this. Though it would prove nothing and could result from his other skin treatments.
    http://www.linkydinky.com/images/mj.jpg

    Regarding his 'problems' with women:
    Little mystery, but maybe he never managed to feel comfortable in his skin. Which is an important factor in dating women as I can tell. In his years of real cuteness (76-86) even from nearsight was too busy and ambitious working. After that his doctors had fucked it up too much. Plus he was the only male Jehova Wittness in his family, which made him believe in chastity until marriage. Brooks shields etc probably spoiled his dreams for the perfect wife so that the reality of his face and his hopes for a princes had diverged too much by ~1990.

    Regarding his love for children: yes that is a bid odd from the beginning. Still might be explainable with their not treating him as a superstar, his dad etc...

    Regarding his high voice:
    He is NOT talking in falsetto, just a bit higher than normal, which might result from his exzessive singing xor training.
    The first minute of 'have you seen my childhood' is just normal modal register ( I can sing it for you if you want).
    PS: Falsetto does not have to be as overly accentuated as with Prince. You can seemingly 'blend' it with the modal register.

    Last but not least there are some other singers with an impressive voice:
    Bee Gees http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCAjmuA1HDk
    Marillion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeoxxpVUQgs (ok, wrong link),
    ...

    This whole 'castrato outfit analogy' part is very weak evidence.

    In other respects I find this theory appealing (and appalling) and even added some 'smooth criminal' interpretation myself: http://www.itwaslost.org/2007/04/special-report-is-michael-jackson.html

    BTW: I have never seen some quantum mechanics and arabic scriptures written on the same blackboard before ;}

    Hfarmer
    In some of your comments you seem to think that being a Castrato would imply something about a persons sexual orientation.  It would not.  A castrated heterosexual male would be unable to perform, and/or have biological children, but they would still be heterosexual.  The castrato of opera seria were known for being popular with the ladies (and admittedly many were popular with the gentlemen as well). 

    The arabic on the blackboard is my religious name. Aisha, the name of Muhammad's favorite wife, and in latter life a politically powerful woman.  
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Michaels 'no sex before marriage' policy can be found in Billy Jean.
    He mad some other utterances of disdain for groupies (whores, hues, ... cant find the quote).
    So his statement that he was a virgin til 32 was maybe not a lie.

    He probably had a very overly romantic and naive view of his future love.

    BTW I find LaToya to be the most honest and (thus) lovable of the Jackson clan.
    She did not take back her 1993 allegations of (sexual) abuse from her father, she just stated in 2008 that she now understands that everything was for the better. (Just as forgiving as Michael). Sad, pitiable but authentic. Incredible how her statements turned out to be true. Barring the allegations against Michael, which i trust her have been forced through her abusive husband. And misunderstandings - what would you think if your brother told you he likes to share his bad with children? After all you dont find Michaelsque behaviour too often.

    I found this site searching because I had been thinking along the same lines, but after quite a bit more reading, I think the true issue is related to his health problems (some of them anyway). I think he suffered from Klinefelter Syndrome, which afflicts some men born with an extra X-chromasome - so XXY instead of XY. Most of these men are infertile - although some men are born with a mosaic of XY/XXY cells, so if they have enough of the XY-type cells in their testes they may be able to produce offspring, especially with laboratory help. So there's a chance that MJ's kids are actually his (unless I missed some certain verification in the news that they are not). If you've ever seen one early interview of Michael with La Toya, you'll realize that he may have been more honest about that than most people believe. Halfway through the interview he said he was going to go get his sister to bring back with him, but when she showed up I assumed he had found some other guest in the house instead of La Toya. Until she introduced herself by name about 6 or so minutes in, I couldn't believe it was La Toya, because she looked like a white girl.
    Klinefelter syndrome is also associated with a slightly increased risk of autoimmune disorders (i.e. MJ's lupus/vitiligo). Klinefelter boys are typically of normal to superior intelligence, but often with ADHD, learning disabilities, language difficulties, and poor impulse control. They are often more sensitive/shy than their peers, with lower self-esteem. They often benefit from testosterone injections (I've read from at least one source that Michael required regular injections of some "medication" to function well). You can check out more info on the NIH website if you're interested.
    http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/klinefelter.cfm#xthe
    On an unrelated note, as far as the masks he wore, I've also read that he may have had an Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency. Alpha-1 antitrypsin protects the lungs from an enzyme in the body, but also carries with it an increased sensitivity to cigarette smoke/pollutants. And I don't know what might have caused it but his eyesight was apparently very poor toward the end - something I think may have explained his near constant use of those big sunglasses, which is yet one more thing he was sometimes ridiculed for.
    I feel like he might have had a much better relationship with the press if he had been more willing to disclose his health issues from early on. He had built a career on a 'sexy' image though, and he may have felt revealing all that would do more damage than good.

    Hfarmer
    That's another possibility.  If he had real severe Klienfelters that could do it.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    If he had Klinefelter's Syndrome wouldn't have that been more apparent when he was a child? Or at least some what apparent during adolescence? (How slim he was seems and his totally washboard chest seem two big refutations of Klinefelter's - sufferers many times have breast development and flabby appearance not the hard slim muscle tone MJ had) However, Klinefelter's can't be discounted entirely either.

    Anyway, the strangest thing about MJ is that things didn't seem at all strange until he hit his 20's. His pictures and interviews from the age of 6 till 18 he appears totally typical. It was only as the late 70's and 1980's dawned that the strange traits became very apparent. I'm not sure what this in indicative of - things could have been going on during the teen years but they just weren't obvious to outsider observers I suppose. I still feel like he may have had female hormones as some point in his life and I starting be believe he did have vilitago. I always thought that was a lie to cover up his skin bleaching but if it is confirmed he had lupus then very strong chance he had vilitago too. I do believe he used the skin condition to go ahead and go to an extreme he chose not something that was necessary to do due to the disease. However, for someone with extreme body image problems having a skin disease could be quite devestating I would imagine.

    Interesting article. I was wondering about Michael myself. He was such a unique guy in every sense.

    I doubt there was some kind of artificial intervention (drugs or surgery) to maintain his high voice. He had his adult singing voice by the age of 16-17, which was the same voice as what he had all his life, but which was different to his earlier, kid voice. I don't think anything was performed on him at the time.

    But it's pretty plausible to me that an endocrinological disorder developed in him in a natural way. He really never grew up in in any sense: nor in voice, nor in body, nor in mind, nor emotionally. The connection with vitiligo is also interesting and makes it even more plausible.

    My question is: if he really had this disorder, could he have sex? I ask that because his ex-wife, Lisa Marie Presley always maintained they did have sex when they were married and that it was "normal". I have no reason not to believe her, she strucks me as an honest, "tell it like it is" woman. It seems to me that Michael was capable of sex and that his male organs were fully developed and functional, however he had less sexual urge than "normal" men. Or I don't know if it was that he had less urge or that he consciously opressed his sexuality before getting married (out of syhness or because he was religious, a Jehova's Witness).

    Maybe it's just me, but I also realized that when he was married to Lisa Marie his speaking voice got a tick deeper, his manners a bit more manly. OK, it never was a really deep voice, but less "childish whine" in it. Or maybe it's just really me. Here is an interview from 1995: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM_MjkCjGQQ

    Now compare that with an interview from 1983: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfR0U7ABRiA

    Can it happen that when we consciously opress sexuality it affects our hormones too? So Michael maybe just had less testosteron than usual because he opressed his sexuality? OK, maybe I don't make sense at all, I am not an expert, so please bear with me. :)

    Lisanne
    Hi Suzy,

    Hmm. Tiny Tim (Herbert Khaury) also repressed his sexuality. However, his speaking voice was a very rich baritone. His natural singing voice was in the same range. Of course, if this could occur it doesn't mean that it would be universal.

    It is an interesting idea. And intuitive ideas do have some validity. Modesty is nice too.

    Lise
    Some more:

    Here his body looks pretty masculine to me. He is thin and all, but he has muscles on the stomach: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1346/8579088.jpg

    And here is a little facial hair by MJ: http://blog.lecoqsportif.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michael_jackson_...

    Or here: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/Debbie619_2006/Michael%20Jackson%...

    http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs152.snc1/5654_11029032894...

    Even in his later years he seems to have had facial hair: http://www.celebritybabyscoop.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery...

    Could he have facial hair if he was a castrato?

    Hfarmer
    Yes.  A persons sensitivity to testosterones (that's right there is more than one kind) can vary.  Testosterones are produced, in relatively small quantities by your adrenal glands, and others as well.  A castrato can have facial hair to the same extent that a woman with low estrogen could.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I appreciated reading this very informative article. I realized that facts as well as opinions were expressed,
    I especially enjoyed the "Music & voice" comparison. Michael Jackson was truely a gifted Musical King.
    He has such a great voice, in comparison with others. Research may tell if his endocrine system, or other illiness
    had a great influence on MJ. (He was deeply loved and will be missed by many).
    07/12/09 kr

    the love you save as child
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Y5Hwz-AV8

    the love you save after puberty
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHuRpGEEaok&feature=PlayList&p=BA2AE373C4...

    BTW, the falsetto singing and soft speaking voice are reportedly the result of his father's "training" - Joe did not want Michael to appear "threatening" and at one time, black males were considered threatening and scary when they reached p.u.b.e.r.t.y - so the soft "high" voice was a way to make Michael appear young, sweet and benign to all those young white J5 fans. I've often thought that the whole c.r.o.t.c.h grabbing thing was Michael's way of defying his father and all the abuse Michael endured for years.

    Short of c.a.s.t.r.a.t.i.o.n there wasn't a way (in 1970) to stop puberty or keep a boy's voice high. Michael grew normally, went thru puberty (publicly) and grew facial hair. At no point did he exhibit feminine body traits (the result of taking female hormones). He had the voice he had and made the most of it - nothing more.

    if you take estrogen, it simply causes the male body to produce more testosterone in response - the body wants an equal balance. same thing if men take testosterone, it causes their bodies to produce more estrogen.

    also, i've seen quite a view transgendered men who take female hormones but they can't get rid of that male-like voice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruVhMi1xZyQ

    FILE CLOSED

    Hfarmer
    You seem to have the effects of castration and transgender transition confused a bit. 

    Castration alone would never make "feminine body traits" appear.  One needs to suppress or remove testosterone, and introduce estrogen to get "feminine body traits". 

    Castrated males also grow to normal height or taller.  As for going through puberty, look at Michaels narrow shoulders, very slender physique, lack of muscle.  Compare that to Joe Jackson or the rest of his brothers.  His development is not completely normal
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I found a recording of Moreschi from 1904. He was a castrato. It's scratchy, but it's apparently one of the only recordings we have, if not the only recording:

    http://www.archive.org/details/AlessandroMoreschi

    The timbre of the voice is indeed much different than Michael's. Also, in searching for it, I found this documentary, which goes into detail about all the other effects of castration prior to puberty, none of which Michael had:

    http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Castrato-100000-Boys-Castrated-to-Pre...

    Among the physical attributes are elongated arms and legs and softer body (less defined muscle mass), which another poster mentioned and which Michael did not have.

    I'm not convinced that some sort of chemical tampering didn't take place, however, it does look less likely that actual physical castration occurred.

    Hfarmer
    The male who is castrated before puberty does not develop a deep voice and as has been mentioned his "sweet" soprano voice is often valued for its singing qualities. The beard fails to appear and there is rarely pubic or other body hair. The male who is castrated before puberty rarely develops any degree of aggressiveness. He may develop remarkable intellect, but even so he is invariably devoid of the ability to exercise mature judgement in matters of consequence. 

    Various textbooks devote chapters to each distinctive factor manifesting in males castrated before and after puberty. In a recent issue of the Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Dr. A.P. Cawadias wrote:

    "In castration before puberty there is (1) tallness, abnormal length or thickness of the legs, underdevelopment of hair on the face and body, with good development of scalp hair, thinness. Obesity develops much later in some cases from reaction from the pituitary gland. (2) Inability of the male to perform sexual intercourse and lack of sexual craving, defective development of the external genitals, prostate and seminal vesicles. (3) Variable reaction of the mind. Usually a tendency to dwelling within one's self with childish traits and abnormalities due to an inferiority complex. Those castrated before puberty, however, often show normal functions of the mind and a capacity for action and achievement. (4) A lessening of the energy of the body and decreased excretion of male hormones in the urine.

    "Those castrated after puberty shoe: (1) No tallness, no excessive size of the legs, usually no underdevelopment of the hair, obesity of special girdle type setting in earlier. (2) Ability to perform the sexual act and sexual craving can be maintained. (3) Reactions of the mind are the same as in those castrated before puberty, but influenced by the personality of the patient and the environment. There is likewise a lessening of body energy and decreased male hormone production."

    "Effects of Castration, Chapter 7" WWW.EUNNUCH.ORG

    So you say he has NO signs of castration?  I think that the above, especially but not exclusively where I have added emphasis, describes Michael to a T.

    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I don't agree. I personally met a countertenor male singer who wasn't castrated in any way and his modal voice was higher than Michael's voice. His speaking voice wasn't high pitched and he wasn't androgynous either. I still have a tape of classical songs he recorder in a duet. Countertenors are scarce but they exist and aren't castrated.

    is there no rss feed of this discussion?

    Hank
    We have opt-in email notification. Most science topics aren't self-perpetuating so a dedicated feed would be overkill.
    To be honest, I don't think either of the kids are biologically his. Why is that, I don't know. I have a theory though that it's not because he was not able to reproduce but because he didn't want to. Back at the beginning of the 90s he was once asked if he felt it important to reproduce and surprisingly he said no.

    Michael was obviously not at peace with himself. According to his friend Deepak Chopra he had a great amount of self-loath, he was also suffering a lot from his vitiligio and lupus. I thought maybe that's why he didn't want to reproduce - so that he doesn't inherit those diseases to his kids.

    But then I am just playing the armchair psychologist. As I said I am pretty convinced he was capable of sex and he did have sex at least with Lisa Marie. Whether he was capable of fathering a child, I don't know, but I don't think these kids are his biologically.

    Unfortunately, no, it appears we have confirmation that Blanket (the one that seemed have at least a remote possibility of being MJ's bio son) was not MJ's biological son. In a interview with LaToya yesterday she stated:

    "She confirmed that Blanket, the youngest, was created from a donor egg and donated sperm: ‘Michael didn’t want to know who the biological parents were.

    ‘They took eggs from a donor and I believe the sperm came from one of five donors picked from a book. Michael didn’t know who the mother and father were. I don’t know who carried the child and if the surrogate knew whose child she was carrying."

    So, I think we can say with certainty that for whatever reason MJ produced no children with his own sperm.

    (Source LInk:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1199092/La-Toya-Jackson-Michael-murdered--I-felt-start.html)

    BTW, physical castration can be as good as excluded (and I think other kind of castration as well). When he was accused of molesting kids, as part of the investigation he was photographed naked by the police, including his private parts. There were no reports of anything abnormal in that area, other than his blotches from vitiligo.

    Hfarmer
    Not all forms of physical castration involve removal of the scrotum.  Castrtion performed by a doctor could involve removal of the testes, then replacement with implants which would preserve the cosmetic look of the testes.

    Then there is what I actually allege in my article.... That Michael had a medical condition which effected his testes in such a way that they did not produce any hormones which would be equivalent to castration.   That kind of circumstance would leave his sexual anatomy intact but non-functional.
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Ok, but the what about him and Lisa Marie having sex? I would think that would have been impossible if Michael had been castrated in any way.

    http://lisamarie.at.infoseek.co.jp/lisa-DianeSawyer2003.htm

    Diane Sawyer: And you did live together?

    Lisa Marie Presley: Yeah.

    Diane Sawyer: I didn't believe that.

    Lisa Marie Presley: Well, let's just put it this way, if he was in town, he was at my house.

    Diane Sawyer: Which was how often?

    Lisa Marie Presley: I don't know. It started to get less and less towards the end.

    Diane Sawyer: Again, you can slug me on this question but I've got to go back. So these were, like, romantic nights?

    Lisa Marie Presley: Mmm, mmm, yeah. I don't remember them very well, but yes. I mean, it was normal. I wasn't going to get married if it wasn't that.

    Here are some other, independent accounts on Lisa's and Michael's relationship:

    "I was there when Lisa Marie was around. They acted like two kids in love. Held hands all the time, and she hung out at the studio for quite a while. I never questioned their love for each other."

    Rob Hoffman, Michael's ex-producer while telling stories about Michael in a message board here: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/401331-robmix...

    "Michael spent at least one Christmas and one Thanksgiving at my house. Just the two of us. We spent a lot of time talking. About life, music, art, movies, people, women(yes, women), and what it meant for him to be who he was at the time in which he lived."

    "I was with him in N.Y. working on ‘History’ around the time he first started seeing Lisa Marie. I was actually even a little jealous, then. I’d always thought she was very attractive(lol)."

    From singer Bryan Loren, who worked with Michael: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=8830394...

    Now, of course these other sources cannot confirm if they actually had sex, but it looks like a very real relationship too me, by every account, including Lisa's own. And she always claimed they had an active sexual life.

    Perspectives on Human Sexuality by Anne Bolin, Patricia Whelehan

    OK not sure if this link will work but it is a book that talks about how castrati could in fact still get erections, have sex, and even have orgasms. They just did not produce ejaculate or have much interest in it. The only reason I would think that maybe it wasn't a naturally occurring thing is because it would be too coincidental....that he would have a condition that somehow preserves his singing voice. I think its more likely that the health problems were caused by what was done to him. I actually think this theory could be correct and I'm not sure why more people haven't brought it up. Castrati were well loved and known for making women swoon. Also, perhaps Michael did have tendencies towards obesity or woman like fat deposits like other castrati and that led to his anorexia.
    I don't think Michael had anorexia. He was thin all his life. But mostly he was healthy. True, at the end he got very, very thin, even more thin than usual, but I think that had more to do with his drug addiction than anorexia.

    I pesonally believe he was not physically or chemically castrated. I think his high voice and fragile body had maybe more to do with his psychological and mental condition. In the mind he always remained a child. Perhaps that had an effect on his body and voice too.

    I've been reading a bit about this theory...a number of folks in the world have apparently come up with the idea, and I was looking for info because I also had come up with the thought. As someone who studied classical music I was familiar with the idea of castration for artistic purposes. The world may never know in Michael's case, because the information will be held secret by the family and friends who know the truth. But after reading all the input on all sides of this issue, every ounce of my being tells me that Michael was the victim of either surgical or chemical castration. It explains everything and it also paints his whole life in a different light - a rather tragic and poignant one, really. I think Michael, who was unquestionably a musical genius of the highest order, deserves great respect for his artistry and for his humanitarian and charitable work, sympathy for whatever was done to him that resulted in his physical and resultant emotional oddities, AND I further think he would be due a lot of posthumous apologies by all the folks who have made him the brunt of jokes and accusations (for which he was acquitted). In spite of how things looked I could never believe Michael was a pedophile - I have always felt that he seemed to be one OF the children, not a predator of children, and there seemed to be nothing sexual about his love of children. (We seem to have a hard time accepting nonsexual love/affection in our society.) So while I respect the idea of his privacy, and his family's privacy, I wish the family would consider that the truth would likely do more to help Michael's memory and boost his image (folks might cut him some slack, so to speak) than hurt him. Perhaps after Joe's death more information will come out.

    Just to preface this, I do love MJ and do not mean to be cruel in what I am saying. It actually makes me sympathize with him more. And those who say let him rest in peace, sorry but he is an extremely famous guy with a unique situation. When people try to figure out other historical figures like the Farinelli, nobody tells them to stop. Anyway, I really think that MJ was trying to tell us something with the way he acted and dressed. He had an obsession with the braoque era, which was when the castrati were most prevalant. If you look at the outfits he wears, they seem like a glammed up 80's version of something that Farinelli would have worn. In fact, that first pic you have of Farinelli looks like that one of Michael in the mid 80's in that red and gold glittery getup. Even the masks he had his kids wear in public look baroque. He even wears that sash thing around his shoulder. Also, the cleft ihe had put in his chin looks mysteriously like the one Moreschi, the last castrato had.
    To the person who said Michael didn't have the physical characteristics of a castrato, I disagree. He always seemed really tall and way too thin for an adult male. Castrati could grow beards, they were just much more sparse, as Michael's was when he tried to grow one later in life. Someone also said that they were prone to obesity but that was probably overshadowed by the fact that he was anorexic for most of his life. My sister was hospitalized for anorexia as a 5'7 GIRL as a teen and she didn't weigh much less than Jackson if that tells you anything about how skinny this guy was.
    OK I'll wrap this up...I really think he wanted us to know. His lyrics were hauntingly autobiographical if you really read them as poetry, especially on his later albums but even in the old ones. "too high to get over, too low to get under, your stuck in the middle" In his Bashir interview, he said "I am Peter Pan", to which Bashir said, "no your'e not, your a grown man", and MJ said, "No, I am Peter Pan". It's like he was screaming to the world, "WAKE UP! Don't you see?"

    Just want to comment that there is no "photo" of Farinelli - I saw the post where the guy posted a "photo" of Farinelli and it was just a picture of the actor who portrayed Farinellia in a movie about his life. (The guy either didn't realize that or just failed to mention it but think - does that even look like a "old" photo?) Anyway, Farinellia died long before photography was invented. There are NO photographs of Farinelli - the only thing we have are a few paintings and a bust. There is more known about Farinelli than most castrati but its still not a whole lot certainly not enough for MJ to base his "look" off of it. If anything it would have been merely MJ's imagination as to how Farinelli or baroque era castrati dressed.

    This is interesting: Farinelli came out in 1994, which coincides with a change in Michael:

    *sigh* Okay, that embed didn't work. I'll just copy and paste the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUC82XkO4c

    Really interesting article Hontas, thank you.

    This link is from a British tabloid, so it's probably all hogwash but it perhaps brings forward another possible angle on the theory: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2540231/Jackos-dad-beat-him-st...

    Oh, please no, not the tabloids! They write so much BS every day it makes my head spin. One day he is gay, the other day he is asexual, yet another day he is sterile. I actually prefer to believe his ex-wife who has been there.

    I know, I know, they're full of MJ cash-in stories since his death but there's a grain of a possibility in there. As in, perhaps any damage (if indeed there was any) wasn't deliberate as such but a by-product of abuse or, as Hontas surmised, a medical condition, or even a combination of both.
    Bad and all as Joe Jackson is painted, I cannot imagine that there was a pre-meditated plan to "fix" Michael in order to maintain him as the golden goose. But I can believe that something happened to change him.
    If any of this is ever proved, his life would read like a Greek tragedy.

    Though tabloids can be unreliable, in the case of MJ they have taken the lead and much of what they have been reporting the "mainstream' media picks up days later. The Sun was the tabloid in January 2009 printed the story that "MJ would be dead in 6 months" and the prediction was only off by 1 day. Many times, due to their lower editorial standards, they are the first to publish stories or they are interested in the more sensational stories that others won't touch due to the controversy of the claims.

    Not saying we should ever trust everything they report but its def. something to keep an eye on in cases where the tabloids take a special interest in a topic. I had a friend who worked at an American tabloid "The National Enquirer" and was shocked at just how much of their information was accurate even more so what they knew about celebrities and others that they did NOT publish. They have deeper and better sources that most people can fathom & there is a reason you see celebrities photographed buying or reading them. Well, I should frame the above saying this was true of certain American tabloids - can't vouch for the UK versions and there are also some terrible American tabloids. Need to add that on many tabloids the cover stories headlines are what's misleading or false - in order to get people to buy them - the stories inside are usually much more accurate but they are given outlandish headlines to get attention. The stories themselves are rarely that far fetched - they have to worry about lawsuits too.

    I take mainstream journalism with a grain of salt and the tabloids with a kosher salt box but many times the first rumblings of a true story appear in the tabloids - so I keep my eye on them. Don't automatically discount a story just because it appears first in a tabloid - that's akin to thinking every word they publish is gospel.

    La Toya had an abusive husband at the time who forced her to tell lies about Michael. She admitted that since.

    Sorry, this was as an answer to Ann's post.

    As I said above I pesonally do NOT believe he was physically or chemically or whatever artificial way castrated. I think his high voice and fragile body had more to do with his psychological and mental condition. I think he was stuck at the age of 14 mentally and perhaps that had an effect on his body and voice too, not just on his behaviour.

    I do not think he was a pedo or even gay. Just he had a pretty childish, naive concept of a romance - like a 13-14 year old boy would do, which was more about emotions than sexuality. Here is a history of his romances:

    First love, first kiss perhaps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktcdq3tIxoU
    Singer Stephanie Mills dated him too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e7yIt1Kaao

    Actress Tatum O'Neal in her autobiography about their short romance when they both were teenagers:

    "I met him (MJ) at the On the Rox, the club Lou Adler & Jack Nicholson opened upstairs from the Roxy on the Sunset Strip. Michael was around 17 at the time, about 5 years older than me, & he seemed very sheltered & fearful & lonely--not at all what you'd expect a world-renowned performer to be. As I recall, he didn't even know how to drive a car."
    "He gave me his number, & we started talking everyday--long drawn-out conversations that sometimes got so boring I would hand over the receiver to my friend Esme Gray. Michael would just keep on, thinking he was talking to me. His usual subject was sex. At 12 I didn't have much to say about sex--all I knew was that it went on, pretty steadily, in my father's room next to mine. But Michael was intensely curious about anything, everything sexual, though in an incredibly sweet & innocent way. "He was a huge star, but it seemed he barely even dated & knew little about life. He once came to my house & asked to come upstairs b/c he'd never been in a girl's bedroom before. He sat on the bed, & we kissed very briefly, but it was terribly awkward. For all my passionate crushes on people like Dustin Hoffman, I was just 12 & not at all ready for a real-life encounter. So I said, 'I can't.' Michael, who was sweating profusely, seemed as intimidated as I was. He jumped up nervously & said, 'Uh, gotta go.'
    That's the closest I ever got to Michael, which is why I'm amazed by his recent claim on national TV that I'd seduced him but he was too shy to carry it through. I absolutely adored Michael--as a friend--& I admire him to this day. I believe that he fell in love w/ me. I'm told that he wrote the song "She's Out of My Life" on his album Off the Wall for me. What an honor.
    At the time of the supposed seduction, I was barely pubescent, & what I'd seen of sex so far was unappealling & gross. It may have been Michael's fantasy that I'd seduce him--and it's a little sad that he cast himself as failing, even in his dream--but it just didn't happen. "What we did do together was go to concerts. I remember seeing Queen w/ Michael at the Forum in L.A., which is interesting, considering his androgyny now. He came w/ me & my father to Hugh Hefner's mansion, where I think Hefner's menagerie--monkeys & peacocks & other exotic birds-gave him the idea for Neverland. Michael would hang out & jam sometimes w/ my brother Griffin...Griffin was like a musical savant; he played the piano, guitar, & drums beautifully. Michael would play drums, & outside on the deck, my father would be boxing to the rhythm. "Unfortunately, my friendship w/ Michael came to an abrupt ending. He'd played the Scarecrow in The Wiz, the urban remake of the Wizard of Oz, which starred Diana Ross as Dorothy. For the film's premiere, Michael invited me to be his date. I asked my dad, who didn't care one way or another if I went, but my talent agency was dead set against it. I was told, in exactly these words: 'You can't go to a premiere with a ni**er.'
    Hollywood!
    That upset me tremendously. Had I been old enough--or had I the parental support--I could have stood my ground & insisted 'Oh yes, I can.' But my father was too disengaged to help me think it through. So, without telling Michael the reason, I turned him down.
    He was devastated. After that Michael didn't speak to me for years, until I ran into him at the Helmsley Palace in New York. For old times' sake, we caught a concert together, Kool and the Gang at Madison Square Garden. Michael dressed in full costume for the event--coming in blackface, w/ a pasted-on beard--the whole nine yards. But things were never the same between us."

    Then came Brooke Shields from 1975 to 1993, but it was more a friendship than a romance. Brooke said though that Michael proposed to her a couple of times which she always turned down because she felt he is only doing it to not to lose her friendship. Brooke said their relationship never involved sex.

    So up until the early 90s it seems Michael was a virgin. I think that one of the reasons is his shyness and above mentioned childish concept of a romance, another is his strictly religious upbringing. This should not be overlooked! He was raised as a Jehova's Witness. I have seen a video on YouTube about Michael's first Christmas - in 1993. Jehova's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas. And even after Michael left them it took Liz Taylor 5 years to get him to celebrate Christmas, such was his guilt about it. Even in that documentary about 1993 he said he felt guilty and went to the bathroom to cry about it. Why I mention this? Because if he felt so guilty about celebrating Christmas, I can well imagine how guilty he felt about having sex outside of marriage. Yet, from what Tatum O'Neal said I doubt he was not interested. He just probably opressed it.

    Then in 1993 came Lisa Marie Presley and that year many things changed in Michael's life. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Marie_Presley :

    "They had first met when the seven-year-old Presley attended several of his shows in Las Vegas.[6] According to Yahoo.com, when they met again years later, "things moved very quickly", with Jackson proposing over the telephone after four months.[6] They stayed in contact every day over the telephone. As child molestation accusations became public, Jackson became dependent on Lisa Marie for emotional support; she was concerned about his faltering health and his addiction to drugs.[10] Lisa Marie explained, "I believed he didn't do anything wrong, and that he was wrongly accused and, yes, I started falling for him. I wanted to save him. I felt that I could do it."[11] Shortly afterwards, she tried to persuade Jackson to settle the allegations out of court and go into rehabilitation to recover. He subsequently did both.[10] Recently, Presley issued a statement on her MySpace blog regarding Jackson's death on June 25, 2009, stating that she was "gutted", and that she felt she had "failed" to help save him from "the inevitable". [12]

    [...] The marriage was, in her words, "a married couple's life ... that was sexually active".[14]"

    After Michael's death she again confirmed on her blog that their marriage was "not a sham" and that the reason for the divorce was Michael's refusal to accept help about his drug addiction: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=4229186...

    Lisa Marie always - during and after their marriage as well - maintained that their sex life was "normal".

    I'm not sure if before or after Michael has ever had sex, but I do believe with Lisa Marie he did. She is an honest woman.

    After the divorce Michael was desperate to become a father and so it came to the messy "bussiness" with Debbie Rowe and another surrogate mother for the third child. I doubt there was ever sex or love involved there, by the look of those kids it seems they are not even biologically Michael's. Why is that, I don't know, I can only speculate. First, it can be that Michael is indeed infertile (but I don't think he is sexually incapable, see his marriage with Presley), or he did not want those kids to be biologically his. Michael Jackson's mind was often one big mess, so one can only speculate why he wouldn't want to reproduce. My theory is again a psychological reason. His friend Deepak Chopra said after his death on TV that Michael had a massive amount of self-loath and incredibly low self-esteem (hence his plastic surgery). Now, if somebody has such an amount of self-loath, would he want his kids to inherit his genes?

    But Michael apparently was still interested in women. One of his friends, singer Bryan Loren wrote this on his blog after Michael's death: "Among other times, Michael spent at least one Christmas and one Thanksgiving at my house. Just the two of us. We spent a lot of time talking. About life, music, art, movies, people, women(yes, women), and what it meant for him to be who he was at the time in which he lived."

    http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=8830394...

    Another friend, claims that Michael was looking for getting married again: "He wanted to get married," says Seropian. Michael knew Seropian was well connected in Arabic countries, and recalls a time back in 1999 when Michael asked him to help him find a wife. "Can you hook me up so I can get married?" Michael asked Seropian.

    Michael had hopes of getting married for as long as Seropian can recall. He even asked to be introduced to the daughter the Prince of Brunei. “He always wanted to create a family," says Seropian. He wanted to "start up a family. He had his kids during this time, so he probably wanted them to have a mother in their lives."

    http://www.hollyscoop.com/michael-jackson/michael-jacksons-close-friend-...

    Ooh, one more thing: when Michael's house was raided in 2003 when he was accused, all the police found was hetero porn (no gay porn, no kiddie porn). That also should tell us that Michael had interest in sex - and apparently in adult heterosexual sex.

    That's really not true - at all. I've seen the photos and evidence exhibits from the criminal trial and there was plenty of very creepy young boy material. Specifically an old book entitled "Boys will be boys" - which police commented is very commonly found in pedophile's collections. It was a book printed in the 1960's when people were a little less enlightened about a sexual interest in children, but 90% of the pictures (on their own) in the book would get people thrown in jail for possessing child porn by themselves. However, they feel safer with this publication and claim it as a "collectible." The fact his house was filled with artwork depicting young children, both paintings and sculptures, in suggestive positions was also really telling. From what I understand about the "hetero porn" found in his home was that it was there for his "young guests." A lot of the stories told by the young friends he had stay at Neverland detail MJ letting them look at "girls naked" and other types of porn. It seems like he wanted to get the boys aroused for some reason and the typical boy would only be interested in naked women - not "boy's life" material. So I think the hetero porn found really has a more unseemly reason for being present. Also, his "staff" did a very massive clean up while the cops were on there way to neverland for the raid and they got rid of a lot of the stuff. I think they purposely left the average "girly porn" around to make it appear MJ's sexual interests were more or less typical. Nothing screams normal hetero man like a stash of girly porn.

    Hfarmer
    The type of porn MJ would have looked at does not matter.  Being castrated/muted puberty alone would not change his sexual preferences.  Though a straight male would be frustrated by that (and do things like grab his crotch, scream and destroy cars).  
    It is too common to see a persons sexual anatomy as dictating their desire, and identity.  The brain is where those things are decided.  I think that if anything Michaels brain growing up as a normal male brain sans testosterone could explain why his psychology would be different.  
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Con la ayuda de la reproducci�n rejser usted consigui� el estilo moderno de las celebridades de Hollywood.

    Unfortunately there are a lot of stories and interpretations about what was found and what was not found in MJ's house and what they meant. You obviously chose to believe the prosecution's version.

    "One of books introduced today, "The Boy," was apparently a gift from a fan, who inscribed the flyleaf with a heart and the words, "From your fan, xxxooo, Rhonda." The notation "1983 Chicago" also appears on the page.

    The other, "Boys Will Be Boys," contains the following note on the flyleaf: "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of Boyhood. A life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children." The note is signed "MJ" in what appears to be Mr. Jackson's hand."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/30/national/30jackson.html?fta=y

    You can suppose that MJ's interest in those books was of sexual nature (and obviously the prosecution was trying to suggest that) but there's absolutely no evidence of that. It could be just what Michael indeed has written on the flyleaf. He was talking about his lost childhood all the time, he was looking for that in everything.

    I followed the court case on Smoking Gun, by the official court documents and proceedings, and I don't remember anything very damning about what was found in Neverland. And it seems like the jury thought the same after all they acquitted him. All I can say I followed the trial with an open mind, but originally leaning towards "guilty", but at the end of the day I think the whole case was ridiculous, the accuser and his family were not credible at all, changing their story several times. Also having a past in shoplifting and just one year after the MJ trial the mother was convicted for welfare cheating (sorry, English is not my first language, I don't know how it's called precisely). Make of it what you want, but to me those are not credible people.

    "From what I understand about the "hetero porn" found in his home was that it was there for his "young guests." A lot of the stories told by the young friends he had stay at Neverland detail MJ letting them look at "girls naked" and other types of porn. It seems like he wanted to get the boys aroused for some reason and the typical boy would only be interested in naked women - not "boy's life" material. So I think the hetero porn found really has a more unseemly reason for being present. Also, his "staff" did a very massive clean up while the cops were on there way to neverland for the raid and they got rid of a lot of the stuff. I think they purposely left the average "girly porn" around to make it appear MJ's sexual interests were more or less typical. Nothing screams normal hetero man like a stash of girly porn."

    Again, that was just the prosecution's version on why there was exlusively hetero adult porn found in his home. They had to explain that somehow, didn't they? The "lot of the stories told by young friends" were actually not so many young friends - and they weren't credible either. Jason Francia and his mother (and ex-maid of Jackson who was fired in 1990) claimed she saw Michael molesting Macaulay Culkin and Wade Robson. Both, now adult guys called the alligation "ridiculous". Not mentioning that the Francias have sold their story about these alleged molestations previously to magazines for money. Such was the "credibility" of prosecution witnesses...

    I have also seen the document about the police questioning of Jason Francia back in 1993. The boy initially denied any sexual abuse, until, well, until the police basically talked him into that something MUST have happened. They told the boy lies. They told Macaulay Culkin was molested too and if Jason doesn't confess he too was molested then there will be nothing they can do to save poor Macaulay. They also told him Corey Feldman was molested by Jackson too when he was a child (Feldman rubbished the claims) and that's why he became a drug addict. They kept on pressuring the boy to say he was molested by playing on his guilt telling him if he doesn't say that other boys will suffer and they will not be able to save them. I think the police also made racist remarks about Michael in that quesioning telling Jason to keep in mind Michael was black and he was white and that he has to do the right thing. It was incredible to read that but it's true. It was also shown in the 2005 trial. So that's how the prosecution managed to get the Francias as "witnesses".

    On the other hand, lots of young men who spent time in Neverland as little boys testified that nothing sexual ever happened. It would be truly uncharacteristic from a pedophile to only molest 2-3 boys in his life and leave the rest alone, although he would have had the chance to molest them as well.

    I can tell you one thing: in my opinion acquitting Michael was the right thing to do as there was simply no solid evidence or credible witness against him. And as I said I originally started to follow the trial thinking he was guilty. I don't think so any more.

    Unfortunately there are a lot of stories and interpretations about what was found and what was not found in MJ's house and what they meant. You obviously chose to believe the prosecution's version.

    "One of books introduced today, "The Boy," was apparently a gift from a fan, who inscribed the flyleaf with a heart and the words, "From your fan, xxxooo, Rhonda." The notation "1983 Chicago" also appears on the page.

    The other, "Boys Will Be Boys," contains the following note on the flyleaf: "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of Boyhood. A life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children." The note is signed "MJ" in what appears to be Mr. Jackson's hand."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/30/national/30jackson.html?fta=y

    You can suppose that MJ's interest in those books was of sexual nature (and obviously the prosecution was trying to suggest that) but there's absolutely no evidence of that. It could be just what Michael indeed has written on the flyleaf. He was talking about his lost childhood all the time, he was looking for that in everything.

    I followed the court case on Smoking Gun, by the official court documents and proceedings, and I don't remember anything very damning about what was found in Neverland. And it seems like the jury thought the same after all they acquitted him. All I can say I followed the trial with an open mind, but originally leaning towards "guilty", but at the end of the day I think the whole case was ridiculous, the accuser and his family were not credible at all, changing their story several times. Also having a past in shoplifting and just one year after the MJ trial the mother was convicted for welfare cheating (sorry, English is not my first language, I don't know how it's called precisely). Make of it what you want, but to me those are not credible people.

    "From what I understand about the "hetero porn" found in his home was that it was there for his "young guests." A lot of the stories told by the young friends he had stay at Neverland detail MJ letting them look at "girls naked" and other types of porn. It seems like he wanted to get the boys aroused for some reason and the typical boy would only be interested in naked women - not "boy's life" material. So I think the hetero porn found really has a more unseemly reason for being present. Also, his "staff" did a very massive clean up while the cops were on there way to neverland for the raid and they got rid of a lot of the stuff. I think they purposely left the average "girly porn" around to make it appear MJ's sexual interests were more or less typical. Nothing screams normal hetero man like a stash of girly porn."

    Again, that was just the prosecution's version on why there was exlusively hetero adult porn found in his home. They had to explain that somehow, didn't they? The "lot of the stories told by young friends" were actually not so many young friends - and they weren't credible either. Jason Francia and his mother (and ex-maid of Jackson who was fired in 1990) claimed she saw Michael molesting Macaulay Culkin and Wade Robson. Both, now adult guys called the alligation "ridiculous". Not mentioning that the Francias have sold their story about these alleged molestations previously to magazines for money. Such was the "credibility" of prosecution witnesses...

    I have also seen the document about the police questioning of Jason Francia back in 1993. The boy initially denied any sexual abuse, until, well, until the police basically talked him into that something MUST have happened. They told the boy lies. They told Macaulay Culkin was molested too and if Jason doesn't confess he too was molested then there will be nothing they can do to save poor Macaulay. They also told him Corey Feldman was molested by Jackson too when he was a child (Feldman rubbished the claims) and that's why he became a drug addict. They kept on pressuring the boy to say he was molested by playing on his guilt telling him if he doesn't say that other boys will suffer and they will not be able to save them. I think the police also made racist remarks about Michael in that quesioning telling Jason to keep in mind Michael was black and he was white and that he has to do the right thing. It was incredible to read that but it's true. It was also shown in the 2005 trial. So that's how the prosecution managed to get the Francias as "witnesses".

    On the other hand, lots of young men who spent time in Neverland as little boys testified that nothing sexual ever happened. It would be truly uncharacteristic from a pedophile to only molest 2-3 boys in his life and leave the rest alone, although he would have had the chance to molest them as well.

    I can tell you one thing: in my opinion acquitting Michael was the right thing to do as there was simply no solid evidence or credible witness against him. And as I said I originally started to follow the trial thinking he was guilty. I don't think so any more.

    I'm with Suzy -- if you look at the real evidence regarding both child molestation cases, you realize that it was all a bunch of baloney. The problem was the media's false reporting of the facts.

    But back to the question of castration, I am now seriously questioning this hypothesis. I have plowed through dozens and dozens of photos online (it's so easy now -- just google his name and many sites pop up with pictorials of his life), and when he was a young man, he clearly had "5:00 shadows" in some photos. Also, his arms and legs are no longer than those of his brothers -- they are normal length -- and he was reported to have been 5'10", not an unusual height for a man at all (if anything, quite short).

    And maybe it's me, but looking at more pics of Prince Michael I, he looks like Michael when Michael was a boy.

    I actually just got the new book published about MJ today - the one by Ian Halperin that went to press the day before MJ's death and was pulled and revamped a bit. (Also the same author who predicted MJ's death within one day of accuracy) Anyway while discussing the book with my mother I commented on the castrato theory and she mentioned that after he died she saw several reports detailing that some of the prescriptions found in his home were expressly for surpressing testosterone production, taken to maintain his voice it was theorized, it also mentioned that a side effect of these drugs were insomnia. Now I had not heard that these were among the drugs found in his home, but did recall hearing he was taking a total of 3 depigmentation drugs so there were reports on the types of medications found in his home after his death. I'm now trying to find the reports my mother mentioned, who's does not have a big interest in this topic and merely saw some of the media coverage everyone was exposed too. If we can verify hormone surpressing drugs were found in MJ's home or prescribed to him I think we will be able to confirm he was a modern day version of a castrato - even if it was through chemicals rather than surgery. I can see MJ making the decision to take these drugs in order to maintain his voice (seen as THE reason he was so famous and his greatest assest). I can also see after years of its feminizing effects him trying to achieve more masculine features through plastic surgery (i.e chin cleft) after all the rumors of pedo/gay were flying and he realized the feminizing effects of the drugs while it preserved his voice it was now ruining his image.

    Ian Halprein? He is a tabloid journalist who was already even charged for lying under oath and served time in jail for fleeing the country when charged. Just so that you know. He is boasting now about "predicting" Michael's death now, but he is not boasting about what he actually wrote six months ago: that Michael needed a lung transplant because he could barely even speak and move. I know Michael was skinny and probably full of drugs during those "This is it" rehearsals but he definitely didn't look like a guy needing a lung transplant., and of course he could speak...

    I can't believe people buy anything that is printed. No wonder Michael suffered so much from the tabloid. If I want to know about the guy I'd rather by Bruce Sweiden's book "In Studio with Michael Jackson". Rather accounts of close colleagues than tabloid journalists. Like here, for example:

    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/401331-robmix...

    Lets just say I can get books comped to me, for reviewing purposes and that one struck my fancy since I'm very curious about MJ at the moment. I actually had the opportunity to get a copy before MJ's death, when they were shopping it around under its previous title, and turned it down but now that he's died I'm curious what an author who spent the past few years trying to peek into his life was able to see. Most of the books about MJ currently, and a lot from now on, will be about his entire life and I'm really most curious about the last 5 years for the time being. I hate the soundbyte stories and much prefer books on the subject - something I can sink my teeth into. I completely understand who Ian Halperin is and his background. I also see how much MJ himself and his family lie about the reality of his life so I really don't think we should throw stones at the tabloid journalists who are at least not believing the lies spoon-fed to them from MJ's PR machine. (For example MJ was adament he had "two plastic surgery procedures" and until recently his family denied he had any type of drug problem. If you want to call the tabloids liars at least acknowledge MJ's PR camp is as bad or worse when it comes to lying. ) I have also read the gearslutz threads, actually weeks ago, and it was somewhat interesting. But overall I'm not interested in the platitudes and all the lovely memories people have about MJ. He was a legend and he was very talented and you could spend months reading all the puffery and platitudes being bestowed upon him online and in print right now - and its boring as hell after a few minutes. However, I want to know why he died and what was going on his his actual life (medically and mentally if possible) - not the PR spin image that is fed to us about celebrities. I'll take the new Halperin bio with a big grain of salt but I do think it will give some insight into what the final years of his life were like. As for MJ "suffering" from tabloids - he also made his living in part due to them. He himself posed and released the photos of himself in the "hyperbolic chamber" sleeping. He knew it was in his best interest to maintain the mysterious celebrity image. The only problem MJ had is when they weren't talking about him - he thrived on attention. For all the times he decried tabloids he also made sure he manufactured incidents and stories for them on a pretty regular basis. Only when the pedo stuff threatened to ruin his career did he pull back on the strange PR stunts. I guess really its a case of live by the sword and die by the sword. If you want to be a superstar and life a luxurious lifestyle you are going to be put under the public microscope - its part of the deal for making obscene amounts of money for relatively little work. I don't really feel sorry for all the "pity me' I can't do things like normal people cries you hear from Hollywood celebrities - its pretty easy to step out of that limelight but they like the attention, money and limelight way more than their privacy. I don't begrudge them that - hell if the deal you can earn millions a year for relatively little work, public adulation and a life of obscene luxury and the only downside is tabloids writing nasty gossip and paps following you around snapping pics - no problem. Signed, sealed and delivered.

    I realize this thread is older than dirt, but I had to reply because I was so disgusted. I actually find the majority of what's written here to be disgusting and ridiculously ignorant, but I have to say that your words just enraged me. You're talking about Michael like he's a fucking case study, a history project, a science experiment. Michael was a PERSON, and he doesn't deserve this crap. How can you say you're 'interested' in Michael. How dare you!? You don't give a shit about him! You only care about the circus, the bone-headed speculation that's gone on for too damn long. You expel Michael's words but will readily ingest the opinions of hack journalists who didn't even know him!? What the hell is that? People who truly love him thrive on the so-called 'platitudes'. The stories about visiting the Mickey Mouse Club, his benevolent effect on gang members, being mobbed at Disneyland and jumping on velcro walls. You can hear Michael through his friends and acquaintances, feel the searing quality of his words and actions that obviously touched others so deeply, and yet you spit on that. Those slices are heartfelt and give us a real insight on what it was like to talk with him and feel his presence. You don't get Michael and you probably never will. Michael was an artist and a lover, and he worked HARD to get everything he got. What, you think you can just spend an hour moonwalking in your bathroom and you're Michael Jackson!? Doesn't work that way. And FUCK, the way the media has treated Michael is a revolting injustice which certainly contributed to his death. But it's common for people to blame the victim, I know that all too well. Ugh, you don't understand ANYTHING! Do me a favor and fuck off! You're just as bad the hillbillies and pompous pricks who insist he's a fucking child molester!

    Lisanne
    Hi Hontas,

    So many possibilities here. You may well be heading in the right direction but it's not the only explanation for Jackson's ability to retain much of the vocal characteristics of his youth.

    I think an interesting parallel can be made with the singer Gene Pitney, who managed to sing with an incredible range into his sixties. Takes a lot of work to keep one's vocal cords in the proper condition to maintain that range, but it can done.
    what kind of people would spend so much time thinking about the testicles of a dead man?

    What kind of person spends time thinking and commenting on people who think about the testicles of a dead man? Pot meet Kettle.

    The rumors of MJ being Omar's "lovechild" have been around for years and are not true. His mother is white scandanavian and his father of Middle Eastern (probably Paki) descent. His mother was a huge fan of MJ and encouraged her son to try and dance like him. Omar became a bit of a child star doing his MJ impressions at different local spots in Europe and MJ finally took note of his act around age 10 and Omar became a special friend to him. His mother and father ended up both working for MJ as well.

    The only biological link I think there may be in this whole mess is I could see Omar being the sperm donor for Blanket. Obviously MJ really like Omar and I could seem MJ choosing him to be the father of his 3rd child because there does seem to be a resemblance. (But it could also be that both Blanket and Omar have arab ancestry - hence the similarities.)

    I'm sorry, but his childlike voice was a mere act he put on for the press (don't ask me why).
    His "normal" voice is a lot deeper. Here's an example:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsSp78gq8UQ
    nothing suggesting castration here.

    Some interesting phone conversations emerged on the internet. They were private talks between MJ and a woman called Glenda in 1992. The recordings were made without the two knowing about it, by Glenda's husband who suspected an affair between the two (which wasn't true).

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEcedw63CY

    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y-eougm-uI

    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz0bH_J9kDs

    In the first two Michael mostly talks about his father, childhood. In the third he talks about his romantic interests: Tatum O'Neal (actress), Diana Ross and two other, unknown women of whom is one named (Kathy), the other is not. From the talks it also turns out that at the time, in 1992, so at the age of 33, he was still a virgin and it was his intention to not to have sex before marriage.

    Suzy,

    Thanks for that insight, that 3rd conversation was so telling!!! You can really tell it was his voice, I remember when he sounded like that. I feel really bad now, poor guy, he couldn"t even talk on the telephone, no chance he could have gone to a therapist and give totally honest answers and gotten some help. He was trapped, a victim of his own success. Can you imagine working so hard for something all your life, only to find out that it is the very thing that kills you, by making you so miserable. I mean, he had everything this world had to offer and he was lonely, depressed and unfulfilled. He would be better off as a middle-class person with a job, wife and children. It simply was not worth it! He should have never left Jehovah!!!

    Suzy, I just have one more thing to say:

    When you listen to "Have you seen my childhood" and "Morphine" lyrics, it is simply heartbreaking. Somebody should have been able to help this child! In Morphine, he seems as if he hates himself. He must have written that one on a down and out, lonely day, because it is filled with despair, hopelessness, depressiveness and uselessness. This castrati theory, must be true, I really hate for anyone to speak negatively about him now that I know that, he has been through enough, "Leave Him Alone"

    Videos all removed, unfortunately.

    Wow, thanks for posting the links to those phone conversations. Boy, I didn't think I could have a lower opinion of Joe Jackson - but those phone recordings managed to do it! What an utter piece of garbage that man is and the conversations (though I have issues with recording private phone calls) really put MJ in a very sympathetic light, and make him sound very down to earth and normal. I hope they get more exposure for that reason - and because its even more solid proof what a nasty evil abuser and leech Joe Jackson is. Those conversations have really increased my sympathy for MJ, since he confirms in his own words some of the worst rumors we have heard about Joe and see how he really feels towards him. MJ comes off as a very sweet guy in those recordings too.

    Part 4 of the phone conversations is up now!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsH7QLNVnNY

    Suzi Girl, I don't know who you are, but you are connected!! I mean, you can just slam them out, one after another, wow! Thanks for sharing.

    He sounds caged, trapped. He doesn't sound so happy to be the "Famous, Michael Jackson." Have you ever read Maya Angelou's "I know Why The Caged Bird Sings"? He makes me think of that story.

    It seems that too much fame makes you go "crazy" and too much money gets you "killed", LIFE IS WEIRD. I'm not saying that Michael was crazy, because he has never seemed more normal to me, since I've heard these tapes of his phone conversations with this Glenda and she also sounds like someone who cares for him as a friend. I wonder when the drug usage really started, he sounds so ripe for some medicated relief on these videos. Because after all a drug user is just a person trying to kill the pain in life. I know because I lost my oldest brother at age 50, through liver cancer. I'm told that he used heroin for 35 years of his young life. I'm switching subjects, that too sad, I listened to "Childhood" again. Take a good, close listen to that song, his voice is so crystal clear and he has so much control over his voice. I don't know, maybe through breathing excercises and voice lessons? I'm just sayin, this castrati thing makes so much sense, his vocal cords are so golden, nobody can do what he does! And in "Morphine" there is a line "Your dog's a bitch, baby," "You make me sick, baby," "You soul survivor." So much self loathing in his verses. Maybe constant putdowns accompanied with physical abuse does that to you, I don't know. I feel like his life was a tragic story in literature, like Romeo and Juliet or something. I wish I knew him when he was alive, I think I could have helped him.

    Now, I have found the transcripts for all of those taped phone calls between Glenda and Michael: http://www.mjhellas.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3213

    To me from all these it seems his problems were rather psychological than physical. It seemed to be very important for him to only have sex with "the One", but he was kind of distrustful with every girl who approached him, because he didn't know whether they loved him or the superstar, so as a self-defense he "ruined all his relationships" before it would have got physical. That before Lisa Marie Presley, at least.

    An interesting part:

    "G: You said you were drawn to that...

    M: Yeah... yeah I was.. I was so inlove and I had my nose wide open and I didn't want to believe what was really going on.. It didn't matter.. but that's another story... (inaudbile) and it's a good thing it was (indaudible)

    G: You don't have any regrets?

    M: No...uh hu.. I dont regret that I didn't sleep with her...I am glad I didn't....

    G: Yeah, that's a long story.....

    M: I didn't. I wish it changed but I havent been married before, ever.. having a relationship like that, I never had that...

    G: I think everyone wants that..

    M: Well I havent!

    G: OK!.

    M: That's what I want... I am not going to be here very long... or whatever...

    G: How long are you going to be here..?

    M: I dont know.. I dont know... (inaudible) but like you know like Melissa told me today (inaudible), she said I want to see you I want to spend time with you before you leave.. I dont care.. what the circumstances are bc she knows my situation.. you know? and shes like I dont care whatever you want.. but I dont know if I will ever see you again and stuff.. she was honest enough, she told me..

    G: She sounds very nice...

    M: It doesn't matter with her no matter what.. you know?

    G: Sounds very nice.. she sounds very good..

    M: I dont wanna die not... not having a relationship like everyone else around me has had.. I don't wanna die.....................

    G: I know...

    M: (inaudible) I just wanna have what.. I never experienced, for someone to accept me for me.. you know? (Inaudible..mumbling...)
    (Hard to hear part of convo)

    G: That's hard to find Michael... Your pushing 34 my dear..

    M: YEAH and I never had it, never have I had it.. everyone else I know has had it.. but I never have.......

    G: Well I think its about time you have..

    M: I know it is... I trust her even tho we got a lot goin' on..I ruined my own relationships..

    G: You do

    M: Well I wont this time

    G: Yeah you sabotage your own relationships

    M: well I wont' do it

    G: b-c it sounds like she really cares about you..

    M: Yeah...what?

    G: That would be very sad..............I think that its important that you hold on to everything that you hold dear...

    M: What?

    G: Repeat

    M: I hold on to some of that... (hard to hear..)

    G: Everything that you hold dear

    M: Yeah I do ... (hard to hear)..and and people and situations (inaudible)

    G: You have a lot of ppl who love you...(inaudible)

    M: I have a lot of people that I don't know what's going on.. (hard to hear...)

    G: Have you told those people (inaudible) out the door (inaudible)

    M: But at least I have some of my (inaudible)

    G: That's good, that's really good, because I know it's hard for you to...be able to see that.."

    Well, he was raised as a Jehova's Witness, what would you expect? He felt guilty for celebrating his first Chrismas with Liz Taylor around 1992; if he couldn't even shake that how could he have started having extramatrial just like that?

    As for the voice, I'm telling you people you're falling for one of his masquerades. I've linked an example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsSp78gq8UQ) showing his "normal" voice, and there are others. Watch his private home videos on youtube and listen to him when he's fooling around with the kids. Listen carefully to his live shows and you'll find numerous moments in concerts when he wasn't paying attention and let his voice slip.

    I listened to the entire documentary of his home videos and did not hear one truly low sound come out of Michael; however, I did notice one VERY high sound. That happened when Macauley Culkin was playing with fire and MIchael -- obviously genuinely upset -- said that he was afraid of fire. Then his voice became very tiny and very high -- definitely the voice of child. The fear of fire was clearly genuine, given his history. That was the time when he really let his guard down and stopped trying to control his voice -- and, when he let his guard down, his voice was incredibly high.

    When he's narrating, he uses a low voice that sounds as if he's straining to stay low. It even feels as if the effort is hurting his larynx, as he sounds slightly hoarse from trying to stay low.

    "I listened to the entire documentary of his home videos and did not hear one truly low sound come out of Michael"
    No, you heard a normal sound, the kind of voice many adult people are speaking with. In the scenes Janet was with him you have the direct comparison with how a woman of the Jackson family sounded.

    "Then his voice became very tiny and very high -- definitely the voice of child. The fear of fire was clearly genuine, given his history."
    I'm sorry, are you kidding me? He's been using pyrotechnics on stage ever since the Pepsi accident, and you're telling me he was afraid of lighting a match?

    "That was the time when he really let his guard down and stopped trying to control his voice -- and, when he let his guard down"
    No, he was talking to a child in a situation when the child was about to do something dangerous. There's nothing unusual with an adult talking like that in a situation, its a means of cautioning the kid.

    "When he's narrating, he uses a low voice that sounds as if he's straining to stay low. It even feels as if the effort is hurting his larynx, as he sounds slightly hoarse from trying to stay low."
    This narrating voice you think he's straining is the normal voice he is using in other interviews, for example MTV in 1999, in the Harlem speech, and on stage when he's talking to his fans.

    Compare the Beyonce video with this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK8dAlx2IHQ&NR=1

    The people appearing in these videos are clearly not the same people -- not the same voice -- not the same face. Obviously there are lookalikes sometimes appearing for him. Which is the real one?

    Oh, believe what you wish, for all I care. You'll dismiss every evidence countering your arguments as being an imposter or a lookalike. This is useless. I feel like I'm argueing with the flat earth society.

    I've been thinking some more about the diffference between the 1994 video of MJ addressing the NAACP and the 2006 video of him accepting the diamond award, in light of revelation of the autopsy reports showing depo-provera in his blood. Obviously, if the doctors or the courts convinced him to take these hormones it would have changed his voice and his demeanor. If he was a castrato, these hormones would have changed him from having the body chemistry of a boy/castrato to having the body chemistry of an adult woman. The transition in appearance and voice seems to be at approximately the same time as the "Childhood" video where he laments the lost childhood. I suspect he realized he had changed irreversibly.

    As for his voice, I just find it beautiful, angelic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t_5uzCOPc

    But it has to be noted it got deeper with time.

    Oh, there's no doubt he could sing like an angel. What impressed me more than all the studio and live recordings is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_MUKw1DdzA - Paris Jackson's birthday and he's singing with his kids, at home. No microphones, no digital enhancing, retuning or other effects.

    Yeah, I looked at the video and I agree with both of you, but I did some research on castrati and it revealed that it depends on how it's done and when, some are even able to have sex, but no sperm is in the ejaculate. The article said that some lose all sexual desire and want no sex. Obviously, the lattar in not MJ, he just wants to meet and marry a girl that he can trust and have sex with only one person for the rest of his life. I agree, that's the way it was meant to be in the beginning. But, I think what has ruined his life is that he was too famous, too successful and therefore could not trust anyone. You see how Glenda, whom he seemed to trust very much, her husband recorded the conversations! MJ was extolling how much he loved both of them and would never hurt either of them and they were recording him, or I should say he. He was betrayed, again and again by everyone and people wonder why he acts so strange and paranoid. Heck, he wasn't paranoid, it was true!! People were out to get him and set him up and everything he was thinking. I'm convinced that those child molestation cases were just disadvantaged people trying to bring themselves up and out of poverty and they saw an opportunity called MJ. Their lives were made better through using him and he got hurt a little more each time. He didn't know how to turn it off, how to make it go away. There was no where in the world that he could hide, so he turned inward (isolation). This is that Howard Hughes syndrome, isolation leads to more paranoia and eventually, if he had not died insanity. Tragic story, one that will be told over and over again, for a long time.

    To change the subject, How stupid is his doctor? Someone is paying you $150,000 a month, and at their request you give them Diprivan via I.V and then you go to sleep. At $150,000 per month, you'd think he could stay up and watch him sleep, to check for signs of trouble. I know I could work midnights for $150,000 a month. But, I would never help a person who has lost his way like that., he was in effect operating, not as a doctor but a drug pusher. He's feeling the heat right now though.

    I'm not following the first part of your post... wasn't the whole point of the article that he never went through voice break, and the castrato theory was used to explain his unusual voice, both singing and speaking? In the video with Beyonce he doesn't sound like a man who never went through voice break. We've seen photos with beard stubbles, the police reports from the infamous strip search indicate no physical castration, everything else is speculation. What exactly is the castrato theory supposed to explain if there are numerous examples showing that he clearly had a speaking voice like many other men?

    I completely agree about the child molestation cases; however I would like to add the remarkable timeline coincidences that the Bashir docu and the accusations of child molestation happened to occur shortly after he ended his contract with Sony and basically declared war with the company and in particular their former head. He openly spoke about the corruption in the music industry, especially to the detriment of black musicians, and challenged other artists to stand up to them. He owned 50 percent of the rights to the Sony/ATV catalogue. Shortly after this speech rumours started floating that the company wanted MJ's "demise". That was around 2002. In 2003, Bashir shows up making his docu, and the child molestation charges including a horrible smear campaign in the press and MJ's downfall begins. Interesting timing.

    As for the doc, I've no idea what's going on. The whole affair is getting more mysterious every day. There's all kinds of inconsistent information, concerning MJ's health status during the past few months as well as the timeline on June 25th, which doesn't make sense. There's definitely more to this affair than it seems.

    Saida, Remember:
    Castration is not a black/white issue, there is lots of gray area in between. It depends on when you do it,

    Interestingly though, and contrary to what one might expect, many castrati experienced an active sex-life. While their libidos were markedly low, most castrati were capable of erection and even ejaculation, though their ejaculate consisted solely of prostate fluid.

    If you castrate at age 10, you are likely to have no ability to have: sexual desire, an erection, ejaculation, facial hair --nothing. All the articles listed below speak of the sexual drive being diminished, but still there, in some castrati. If you castrate at age 11 or later some can have sexual desire but no erection, some have both and ejaculation. Remember in the 17th century, there were women who sought out castrati for sex because they could not get them pregnant and they claim they were better lovers, because they were not so quick (less sensation). I remember hearing rumors when I was growing up that, while at Motown, MJ was being injected with female hormones. Then I was so young I did not realize that this is a form of chemical castration. Slight facial hair is also not an absolute indication that there has been no castration. You can even clip the blood supply to the sac, so there does not have to be some mutilated corps, they probably wouldn't report on castration anyway, they want to know who killed him?

    I guess maturation is a process and it really counts where you interupt the process, but for sure there will be major changes either way.

    http://users.bigpond.net.au/bstone/eunuchs_and_castrati.htm
    http://www.thesmartset.com/article/article0806070116.aspx
    http://www.gettingit.com/article/461
    http://www.mozartforum.com/VB_forum/archive/index.php/index.php?t-992.html

    I don't doubt that, I just don't see how this is relevant for the topic of MJ's voice. Considering the arguments you've listed, there are many people who could be castrati theoretically. Facial hair isn't a reliable indicator, the voice isn't a reliable indicator, sex life isn't a reliable indicator, not even fertility is a reliable indicator. If that is the case, what is the point of the whole theory that MJ was a castrato? What is it supposed to explain?

    For his apparent lack of relationships with women (or men, for that matter) and his desire to catch up on his childhood I find the biographical information (raised as a Jehovah's witness, the stories with his brothers having sex while he was in the same room when he was little, rumour of him being sexually abused, no childhood as a kid) a far more plausible explanation than the idea that he was a castrato. The other points mentioned all point to the fact that he was not a castrato. He did have facial hair, and there are many examples showing that he did have a quite normal men's voice. He used the girly voice in interviews to uphold an image, and it also had the effect - probably deliberately - that certain people underestimated him. You're pointing out now that this doesn't preclude that he was a castrato - well, maybe not. But I wonder what actually supports this theory, if the facial hair and speaking voice arguments have been debunked? I feel that's trying to cling to a theory no matter what, despite the evidence points to the contrary. We're talking about a man here who's been the victim of media smear campaigns on his image and his name for more 20 years. They have left nothing untried to paint him as a freak and a monster and a criminal. Even if you have nothing against castrati yourself, the majority will think otherwise. Yes, it can't be ruled out, but based on your points it can't be ruled out for many people. It's still a very implausible theory and one that doesn't improve the public perception. I'm tired of the media smearing on MJ even after his death, I want the man to get his due respect finally, and the castrato theory, as unlikely as it is, isn't helping the case.

    Saida, you are "fired up" as they say in politics, I like the interaction. Believe me, I am not trying to smear MJ, I loved his music and thought he was a very charming man that gave too much and received too little in return. I'm a supporter. I think that there are a lot of people out there that know for sure what happen, I believe he told them himself. I also think that he was talking about this in the 3rd conversation with Glenda, when she said: "Did you tell Kathy what happened to you? He replied, "No, I don't tell everybody that I've known for a longtime" "I will tell her, when I feel like talking." I also think this is what Marlon was talking about during the Staples Center Tribute to MJ, he said, "Nobody knows how my brother suffered, what he had to go through" I don't think it's that much of secret.

    There are a lot of effects along the continuum of castration, but I think fertility is absolutely an indicator. After castration you may have slight body hair, or diminished sexual desire, but you will not be fathering any children in your future. Every expert says that, once castration occurs it is absolutely irreversible. Even the great Farinelli had a wide range, that at times went from the A below middle C to the D two octaves above middle C. But, also he was castrated at 12 years of age (late). The early castrations, 10years or earlier, produced those high sopranos. But the trueness of his voice, the way he can hit those high notes effortlessly, the control over his vocal cords, I don't believe that just vocal coaching and exercises will get you where he was. He also has lots of the pschological behaviors associated with castrati. You simply cannot completely hide anything, forever and that greedy father just makes the theory more compelling.

    Also, being a Jehovah's Witness would not stop him from marrying a girl, having sex with her and producing children that were African-American offspring. Those children did not have an African-American father or mother, that's clear, they are not bi-racial anywhere in their recent past. I never heard a rumor about him being sexually molested, that's news to me! On those recorded tapes, he sounds like a guy, but in a very girlfriendish way, he is a man, for sure, but somehow he had been tampered with, I believe that.

    Bonnie, I believe you that you don't intend to smear on MJ, and I don't think I suggested you did. I was talking about the effect this theory has in the general public.

    He used the girly voice in most interviews, and reportedly also in phone conversations. It is very extreme in the Oprah interview. There are many credible accounts, though, that in private he sounded quite different. The first time I recall it was mentioned by Lisa Marie Presley. Reporters in the court room in 2005 mentioned it. Taraborelli mentioned it. Actually I don't think the talk about "two voices" is accurate. It is a range of voices, with the Oprah voice being at one end and the World Music Award voice (the clip with Beyonce) at the other.

    I was suspicious of the interview voice ever since I'd first seen him live on the Bad tour. This tour was completely live, no lip synch. His voice could become very loud and voluminous on stage. I could never image how that squeak voice I'd heard in interviews could produce anything like it, for these screams at the beginning of "Beat It" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOqY18Nzr1A). The Ghosts clip is another example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWvVRHxITs . I was baffled by the discrepancy between that and the interview voice. After I first heard that this wasn't his real voice, suddenly it made sense.

    The best idea of how different his speaking voice can sound you get from "Michael Jackson's private home movies" on youtube. Again, the interview voice there is much different than the one you hear when he's fooling around with the kids. Check them out; they're also quite funny.

    As for the kids, I've no idea whose children they are. But the Jackson family has a mixed heritage themselves. Joe Jackson has blue eyes, for instance. La Toya is much lighter than Jermaine. I'm not proficient enough in genetics to form an informed opinion whether they could be his.

    I'm not trying to convince you or anything, Saida, but think about this, why would MJ have to receive the children from Debbie as a "gift" his words, he said, he used his sperm to artifically inseminate Rowe and produce those two gorgeous children, Why? He was married to Debbie Rowe, if he had sperm, then do it the normal way? They were married. Also, look at all the Jacksons boys: Tito, Randy, Marlon, Jackie, Jermaine.............and Prince Michael. There is strong genetic resemblence there until you get to Prince, yes he is on the second tier, but there is nothing that shows the hint of MJ or even African-American heritage. You don't have to be Watson & Crick to see this. Don't get me wrong, they say he was a wonderful father, I believe that, that say he loved them very much, I believe that, but the fact that he was the biological daddy---No, I don't believe there is a shread of speculation even, that bears a resemblence to this as truth.

    He wasn't married to Rowe when she got pregnant. He was still married to Lisa Marie, who flat out refused to have his children. He married Rowe after the divorce mostly because his mother insisted on it.

    Okay, so why artificially inseminate the second child, were they married when they had the 2nd child? Plus, they came out and said MJ was not the biological father of these children a few days after the coroner received his body. Debbie says, she is the biological mother and would be willing to take a test to prove it. That's why the Jackson family is dealing with her, if she wasn't the real mom they wouldn't. Remember the whole controversy about the fact that he didn't adopt the children? Well, that's when they found out that the kids were not biologically his.

    Look, I said I've no idea whose children they are. I've also no idea whether the second child was artificially inseminated or conceived the normal way. I've read both claims, and in things MJ I have become very careful when it comes to believing what I hear and read.

    Have you seen the latest news in Hollywood Reporter, claiming that a high ranking LAPD officer has told them that almost none of the news we have heard or read about MJ's death are true? That almost all of it is fiction (http://www.showbiz411.com/lapd-michael-jackson-true-not)? There has been a media smear campaign going on with the purpose of discrediting this man in whatever matter possible, ever since he left Sony, called their former head a racist and a devil, and basically declared war on their business practices in 2001 or 2002. That he owned 50 percent of the rights the Sony/ATV musical catalogue didn't help. He's made powerful enemies back then and they've made him pay. They still do.

    And like I said, I'm not about to speculate about the possibilities of genetics, because I know nothing about it. I don't recall anyone coming out saying they aren't his biological children - other than the tabloid crap about the friend of Dr. Klein who told a british paper that Klein had told him that he was the father. Never heard that from Klein himself. On the contrary, Klein said on Larry King live that to his best knowledge he wasn't the father. Since then, Tito has claimed they were MJs children, and Joe has claimed MJ has a fourth child. Frankly, to me, following this debate is entirely pointless, it's merely hearsay and speculation on the part of people who know nothing for certain. We won't know for sure whether MJ is their biological father unless they test their DNA.

    Something else. Re-reading the original post, there's a point I don't really understand. He dressed in a characteristic way that was innocent and some would say feminine? What is that all about? It can't be the leather-and-rivet style during the Bad area, can it? Or the black-and-gold military outfit during the Dangerous area? Or the infamous gold pants on the History tour? He used to show off some of the most masculine outfits, and he was one of the most aggressive dancers with very sharp and trenchant moves. Yes, he was fluid and smooth like liquid mercury, but there was nothing soft or effeminate there.

    What I've always found most fascinating was the contradiction between those outfits and his deceptively fragile appearance. Though some incidences indicate he wasn't as fragile as it seemed.

    Yeah, I never thought he was fragile. That stuff he does is real work, he has to be strong. I mean, he's always jumping up out of the floor, triple spinning, quick cuts, standing on his toes, there is no way you can be fragile. Hours of that on stage would make me pass out, especially under the heat that probably exist up on the stage.

    I think he wears showbizness closes, not feminine to me either. You have to wear flamboyant clothing if you're in showbiz, you've gotta be over the top.

    I, for one believe that his kids are not biologically his, but that doesn't prove the castrato theory in any way. There are a lot of men who can't have kids of their own and not because they are castrated.

    Knowing what a complicated psychology this man had, I'm not even sure if he could not have own kids or just didn't want to. Why would any man not want own kids?

    In Michael's case I can think of the following:

    - He clearly wasn't in love with Debbie Rowe, his second wife. It was just a business affair for him to get kids. He was however very much in love with his first wife, Lisa Marie Presley, with whom they still dated each other for about two years AFTER their divorce, and while Michael was married to his second wife. While Debbie was sitting at home pregnant, Michael was traveling around the world with Lisa Marie, holding hands as if they were still a couple. Maybe they still were, I don't know. Debbie knew about it and she admitted in an interview in 1997 that Michael is still not over Lisa Marie. She knew it and accepted it, probably because her relationship with Michael was not about love, it was just a "deal". So what I think regarding children is, that maybe Michael only wanted a biological child with a woman he loved. He DID want a child from Lisa Marie - biological, concieved in a natural way. It never happened because Lisa didn't want his child until he gives up his self-destrutive behaviour. He couldn't give it up, that's why they divorced. So after his chances to have child with a woman he loved died, he still wanted kids, but not biological, because he didn't love that woman.

    That's my first theory.

    - Second is that he had this huge self-loath and low self-esteem. So maybe somebody who hates himself that much simply didn't want his genes to be inherited by his kids. Or/and didn't want his father's (who he hated) genes to be inherited by his kids.....

    - Third is, of course, that he may have been physically incapable of fathering a child, but even if it looks to be the "most logical" explanation to everday people, we should not forget this is MJ who we are talking about and nothing is ever easy to figure out about what's in his head. So I'm not sure if we should take the easiest explanation. I somehow suspect that he didn't have biological kids is more to do with his psychology than with his body.

    Let's not forget he also had a couple of heath problems, like Vitiligo and Lupus, and at least Vitiligo is a hereditable disorder.

    Suzy and Saida:
    You are both very smart, therefore I defer to you. I don't know why MJ did any of the things he did. I am by nature a very logical person, I mean, I really am, I teach math even. I will never understand him. I find him to be totally illogical and yet I'm always trying to apply logic to his problems, go figure. But, I can tell you that MJ was dealing with very intense suffering of some sort. If you listen to the lyrics of his songs, there is distress in them. I could sit at a piano or table all day and never come up with the lyrics that he does. For example, just a snapshot from Who Is It:

    I Am The Damned
    I Am The Dead
    I Am The Agony Inside The Dying Head
    This Is Injustice
    Woe Unto Thee
    I Pray This Punishment
    Would Have Mercy On Me

    Now, I ask you who thinks like this even "for pretend?" I don't know if he had taken on a walk on the wild side and began playing around with the darkness that is the occult or what? But, his music crys out somehow, detailing much suffering. Something was bothering MJ and it was much more than just memories of his father's abuse or drug abuse. None of the rest of them seem to be suffering as much as he did.

    Suzy, those theories were comprehensive, well thought out.

    I'm not sure about this entire "poor tortured soul" thing. I mean, lyrics like that you find with many artists. He probably had a couple of quite sizable demons, but given what he's went through and was still standing, my feeling is that he was a lot stronger than many people (and the press) would give him credit for. How many people would have been able to walk the proverbial mile in his shoes? I'd say most would have been broken long ago. I feel that the "tortured soul" image is greatly exaggerated by the press, who will stop at nothing trying to brand him as a pitiful and sick creature, and many women tend to suffer from a misguided saviour's syndrome.

    Dr. Klein (who I feel is unduely vilified by part of the fandom) said that MJ was "always painted that sad creature", while in reality he was quite different. There are many accounts that corroborate his statement. A lot of people have reported how much he loved to laugh and joke around. Have you actually seen the home movies I've linked? Does that look like a man who knows nothing but pain in his life? I've rarely seen someone laughing so heartfelt.

    He's a complicated and often contradictory person. I feel that labeling him as the tortured soul who was nothing but unhappy and in pain contradicts many accounts of people who were close to him, as well as the footage he made public in the home movies. It's an attempt to pidgeonhole him and make him a one-dimensional creature, who is either to be despised or to be pitied. And I feel that it doesn't do justice to him.

    I'm pretty sure about the entire "poor tortured soul" thing. At least what he went through would be enough for anybody to become a poor tortured soul. Of course, he had happier moments in his life, it doesn't mean that he was walking around with a sad face all the time. He surely had his carefree moments and laughs. But that doesn't mean he didn't feel lonely and misunderstood inside. Who wouldn't in his place?

    OK, he might have calculated his image as a grown-up artist, but I'm sure he hasn't calculated it yet as a teenager or as a young adult.

    He looked to me pretty sad, shy and insecure already at that young age:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9P9ZK8GCJg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcY1f9ja6NQ

    He didn't deliberately create the image of the pitiful, tortured soul - the media did. And people willingly bought it, same as they've eaten up the skin bleaching, sleeping in hyperbaric chambers, and the child molester crap, among many others.

    I didn't say he hasn't been through a lot. Actually I said quite the opposite. And teenagers and young adults feeling lonely and misunderstood isn't all that uncommon. Even not so young adults often feel lonely and misunderstood. Michael is no exception. But that doesn't make them the pathetic, pitiful creature the media are so fond of painting Michael as. Because over the time most people learn to deal with it.

    I can't see how these lyrics are about the occult. If you read the whole lyrics to this song, it's about loneliness and a lover who cheated on him. He even talks about this in the phone conversations. It's nothing to do with the occult.
    The verse you quoted is just a poetic expression of suffering from loneliness, IMO.

    "Something was bothering MJ and it was much more than just memories of his father's abuse or drug abuse. None of the rest of them seem to be suffering as much as he did."

    Erm, different people react differently to abuse. Michael was the most sensitive one. But it's not like his brothers weren't affected. For example: "Randy and Eliza divorced in 1991 and Randy was found guilty on charges for spousal abuse against her. He spent one month in jail and then another in a psychiatric clinic.'"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Jackson_(musician)

    Like Michael said in his private phone convos, most people turn their anger on others (see Randy), he turned it on himself.

    And other than the beatings he was also suffering from his brothers' and father's unmoral behaviour with fans (having sex with fans), while his brothers didn't seem to have a problem with that. Michael had a whole different level of sensitivity than his brothers, IMO.

    Re the clips of MJ using a lower voice - with regard to public appearance, please consider that he regularly employed lookalikes to make appearances for him. Two who have spoken publicly about such occasions are Navi and Earnest Valentino (see Q Magazine Aug 2009). Many also theorize that a lookalike made the O2 concert announcements as well. They do speak at these appearances, but it is always very brief. It's conceivable, especially given how artificial MJ looked later in life, that some of the "low voice" appearances being noted here were not actually MJ.

    I think the castrato theory is very interesting and I found your post informative and well written. Someone noted the tabloid rumor that Joe Jackson did some kind of permanent damage to MJ's genitals during abusive incidents. Is it possible such incidents could cause that kind of permanent or very long term damage? If it in fact damaged the blood supply to that area, I imagine so. Horrible to consider, but to me seems a possibility.

    It clearly wasn't a lookalike at the World Music Awards presented by Beyonce. It also wasn't a brief speech. I also find it highly unlikely that he used lookalikes in his private home videos. You might want to take a look at them.

    What is more, he couldn't switch with a lookalike on stage at the end of a song, when he told the audience "I love you" and all of a sudden his voice was much deeper. It didn't happen just once. Check the live clips on youtube. You'll see.

    Kris, actually Everybody:

    You need to hear this acapella version of "Who Is It?" It is horribly sad, you can hear a huge amount of pain and anger, it is soooo sad. I hadn't paid much attention to MJ in the last 10 years, boy it was a lot going on with him, I wonder if all this stuff has been out on the web all along or did it just appear after his death. This one is too real for me, I mean he's crying, it's hard to listen to.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ5xxJ3QYsk

    Isn't that just another one of those pseudo acapellas, with the instruments digitally removed?

    Anyway, you need to listen to these: MJs voice training sessions with Seth Riggs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vslgd37emqI&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX2T67jx_lg&feature=related

    And you need to watch these :))
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AhYqSMH06g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iplZPIlBEw

    I have been reading this forum as I had also grown up hearing
    the rumors about MJ and castration. I am not a
    scientist, so I hope no one objects to my posting here.
    Some comments and questions:
    Not all 10 -12 year old boys talk in a high soft voice.
    I don't see any alteration being done before MJ really hit it
    big and showed such promise...as the "golden goose" theory
    would be the only reason it was done.
    MJ always did retain some characteristics of a 12 year old..not saying
    he wasn't smart.
    Why did he not develop physically like a normal adult man...and especially since All the brothers, dad, and uncles have larger frames? OK, he was
    a dancer...but in these later years, he wasn't dancing that much.
    In the phone conversations, there is "something" he must tell and
    is concerned about telling. In his songs, there is "something" as well..
    too many references..too much pain?..too much difference?
    It's funny, but ask men who aren't gay or in love with MJ and a lot
    of them will not say he is gay..but there is something "different" about
    him. Here I am talking about those who are objective and really like
    his music, but just feel intuitively that something is not right.
    Also, just because he was married to Lisa Marie Presley..doesn't disprove the theory, nor does it prove it. No offense to LMP, but for every story
    I have heard about how much they loved each other, I have heard equally
    that the arrangement was far from marital bliss.
    I mean if you don't believe most of the tabloid, internews stories, why
    choose this one to believe?
    Again, I am not a scientist...I am just a MJ fan and have been for over
    30 years. I have been a fan from the time he was a child, never doubted
    his side of things, and just always enjoyed his performances. This article
    is not to cause him or his reputation harm, I think people just want to
    understand him.

    What do you mean by "he didn't develop like a normal adult" physically? He was about 5'9'' and 5'11'' depending on whether you believe biographers or the police files, and most of the time he weighed around 160 lb. So he was grossly underweight. But his frame didn't look much different than, let's say, Mick Jagger in his 30s.
    True, he didn't dance as much later - and look at this performance, when he wasn't that underweight (the last actual performance ever, in 2002):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71cTgp-1YFA

    Apart from the skin colour, how does he not look like a normal adult here?

    "Also, just because he was married to Lisa Marie Presley..doesn't disprove the theory, nor does it prove it. No offense to LMP, but for every story
    I have heard about how much they loved each other, I have heard equally
    that the arrangement was far from marital bliss.
    I mean if you don't believe most of the tabloid, internews stories, why
    choose this one to believe?"

    Are you serious about why to believe LMP over a tabloid?
    I believe LMP over a tabloid because she has been there. Of course, she could lie, but I don't think she does. I mean, she doesn't seem to be the kind of woman to me who would marry a guy if he was incapable of sex. And to me they looked very happy when they were married. Of course, after a year or so things went wrong, but on her account it had nothing to do with sexuality.

    As for his body, it's true he wasn't very masculine. He was very thin most of his life. But I think that had more to do with his eating than his hormones. I mean, in the Glenda tapes he notes once that he always forgets about his eating when he is busy, but he needs to force himself to eat to have energy for his tour. It seems he had some kind of eating disorder and that's why he was so thin. Actually when he was younger his body looked more masculine with a little more muscles, although admittedly he was always thin. Later he became a vegetarian, so maybe that has to do with why he lost muscles.

    I am not a scientist nor am I a very good writer. Since the question was put to me,
    I should not have written "..like a normal adult". After all, what is normal?
    Have you seen him w/out his shirt on? He has no chest hair, his chest, shoulders and
    arms seem to lack mature adult male development.
    Of course he could just be an extremely lithe dancer...there is no mistaken his stage presence
    at any age.
    I never saw any of Mick Jagger's brothers, so don't know whether or not there was any
    family physical build similarities there or not. Again, genetically, siblings don't always
    resemble each other in structure, build, or personality.
    There are some strong arguments for it...not sure I believe it...but there WAS "something".

    Have you seen Mick Jagger without his shirt on? How many men don't have chest hair? Are they all "not normal adults"?

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't intend to offend anyone but IMHO this is just about seeing what you want to see. The media have successfully promoted the idea that MJ is somehow "damaged" and "not normal", to the point that it's almost impossible to not let our perception be clouded by the distorted image they've created. I just don't see any strong evidence that he has been "tampered" with that has been mentioned here, not in his voice when he doesn't masquerade, nor in his appearance, his clothing, or his behaviour. It's not like he was without fault in the entire matter, though. He made for a very easy prey due to his reclusiveness, his Peter Pan quirk, and his masquerades.

    I have a recommendation for you all. There's a book by Aphrodite Jones, titled "Michael Jackson Conspiracy". It's about the 2005 trials. The interesting thing is that Jones, a journalist reporting these trials, started out firmly believing MJ was guilty. When she was done, it turned out a book in MJ's defense. In this book she's presenting an indepth coverage of what happened during those trials, including court documents, testimonies, and photo documentation of Neverland.

    You really should read it. I promise you you will be shocked how the media have twisted the public opinion by leaving important information out and reporting a distorted picture of events. Tom Mesereau, the star attorney who lead the defense in these trials, wrote the foreword. He wouldn't have his name on the cover, if her account weren't credible. You'll have a very different perception of both MJ and the media's presentation of him once you're through with it.

    Becca,

    You see what you see, you don't have to be a scientist to be an observer. I think your comment about "a normal adult male" was well founded. He is smaller and less masculine than his dad and brothers. No chest hair, slight facial hair, the narrow shoulders, his chest looks like a 12 year old boy, many things about him do add up Becca. I'm going by what I see and hear, like Saida I don't believe half the stuff I hear in the media and tabloids, but there is something about this boy that screams, "castrato" or female hormone injections or something, somebody did this child wrong. Also castrato are known to be very sensitive and emotional individuals, he seemed slightly more emotional than the average man, but not to the point of girlishness. The video that Saida presented was an older, fatter MJ, none of the things we mentioned precluded him from gaining weight. The news media is not even trying to portray him as castrato, they're just trying to say that he is weird, crazy and out of his mind, which clearly HE IS NOT. Most of his adult life the media has been cruel and rude to him, I don't understand why? It didn't just start with Sony either. But, not to get off topic, I wanted to say to you Becca that there are lots of things that cannot all be considered coincidental that led to what you're thinking. Hontus conclusion has credibility.

    Re: The media. At first he wasn't treated much different than other celebrities who have quirks. And he did have quirks, like all the stuff with Bubbles. It just got worse and worse the more successful he became. Here's what he said himself about the matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q94H7-bKNxo (5:30).

    Of course he seemed to be more sensitive and emotional than the average man. Artists tend to be. And he wasn't afraid to show it. He wasn't afraid of talking in interviews about very personal things. He could be shockingly candid at times. Some things he talked about I'd think twice before telling them to my friends, not to mention the entire world. He was far too trusting, that was his major fault. And they took all the negatives and fabricated a "tortured, pitiful soul" image from it.

    I just did a bit of research. He was shorter than Jermaine (who is 6'5'') but taller than both Tito and Randy, and he was a lot taller than Janet (who's only 5'4''). btw. there's that story he once beat up Jermaine, because he felt insulted by some of Jermaine's lyrics. Not sure how much truth there is to this, though.

    As for the dangerous 2002 video. Of course nothing you've mentioned here prevented him from gaining weight. But that wasn't my point. I posted it to put the idea he's not looking like a normal adult into perspective. Because much of this impression is due to him having been grossly underweight.

    To further confuse people about MJ's sexuality :P, there are some new interesting infos emerging from the Glenda tapes.

    http://makeupshark.blogspot.com/2009/08/6-1-many-inaudible-parts-and-aud...

    http://makeupshark.blogspot.com/2009/08/updated-continued-6-1-conversati...

    http://makeupshark.blogspot.com/2009/08/6-2-books-more-on-kathy-and-some...

    http://makeupshark.blogspot.com/2009/08/check-it-outi-just-updated-6-2.html

    Under the last link there is a "hidden" part, you have to highlight it by clicking over it with your mouse and pull it down.

    So, there was this girl (called "S" in the tapes), probably some Eastern princess who was living at his Neverland ranch between the age of 18-21. He was sent to America by her family to study and apparently Michael was asked to watch over her, or something. The girl was "innocent and naive", she was also engaged by her parents to some other royal back in her country, but according to Michael she "hated it". She was probably from a conservative country where it was important for her to remain a virgin until marriage. Despite of that they kind of fell in love with Michael and she frequently slept with him. It seems from the convos they had "third base sex", ie. everything but the intercourse itself, so that she can stay a virgin.

    This is kind of OT, but I found a great song I didn't even know before - it's been only released on the Ultimate Compilation in 2004. Well, it's not that OT, for his voice is quite interesting here. Listen to this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvjy6MQr6fE

    Oh, and that Lester guy is sure adding to the speculation, isn't he?

    Lester's ex-wife said though that Mark cannot be the father as he wasn't even in contact with Jackson at the time. Sad how many shady people there were around Michael. :(

    Nevertheless I don't believe Prince and Paris are biologically Michael's. However I think it would have been pretty stupid from him to take sperm from a "friend" who then can blackmail him with this info if things turn sour between them. A sperm bank is by far the less complicated solution.

    BTW, according to Roger Friedman (who always seems to have pretty accurate info on Jackson) Prince and Paris are not biologically Michael's (sperm bank donor was used, according to him), but the third child, Blanket is.

    That's plausible to me as out of the three kids Blanket is the one where I can see some similarity between him and Michael. He is not totally white either, IMO.

    I find it a little odd though why would Michael use sperm donor for his first two kids and then his own term for the third. My guess is that he possibly had a health problem there, but maybe science advanced between 1998 and 2002 so much that by then there was a solution for him to use his own sperm. I don't know, it's just a guess. But then again, there could have been a psychological reason, rather than physical. You just never know when it comes to Michael.

    RT: Suzy -- I don't know if anything Blanket looks like he has Indian (as in India) or Middle Eastern parentage. I don't see a any of the typical African-American traits in Blanket but I see a whole lot of the middle eastern characteristics. It would also make sense seeing as how much activity and involvement MJ had in the Middle East (Bahrain among others) since 1998. He visited the area frequently, was friends with a lot of middle eastern "royalty," and even lived in Bahrain on the dime of some prince there for over a year after his trial.

    Below are the final lyrics from Jermaine Jackson's song
    "Word to the Bad", his disgusting, ugly song written about
    Michael. At the very least, hopefully, one can see how jealous
    and deadly Jermaine appears.

    "....What the future may hold, what tomorrow might bring,
    Its not guaranteed that youll be spreading your wings
    But meanwhile, I continue to smile, cause in the back of my head,
    I know you’re still a child
    You say that your a man, but that will never be."

    Wow, if he meant that for Michael, that was so incredibly mean! I could never do my brother like that, even if I was mad at him about something, I would just say nothing, that was wrong. It had to sting MJ really badly.

    Becca,
    I just looked up the lyrics and read the whole song "Word to the Bad", YES, he is definately talking about Michael. How pitiful, JJ should be ashamed of himself,

    if I was Michael I would have gotten on a plane, and found him and punched him in his nose. And that ending also proves my castrato theory somewhat. But to Jermaine's credit my research concluded that he recorded the song, but he never released it. I don't know if MJ stopped it or JJ had a change of heart. I hope it was that JJ had a change of heart, because JJ did sound hurt in the lyrics, not like an unloving brother, but a hurt brother, so maybe MJ pissed JJ off with the control he had over the Jackson catalogue. Because you know MJ was a shrewd businessman. Paul McCartney was on David Letterman the other night talking about how MJ beat him to the step and bought PM's catalogue of songs and Paul said he was very hurt by that. He said that MJ told him that it was "just business" So maybe MJ was the king of POP and the GodFather!

    cause nobody knows,
    What the future may hold, what tomorrow might bring,
    Its not guaranteed that youll be spreading your wings

    But meanwhile, I continue to smile, cause in the back of my head,
    I know you’re still a child
    You say that you're a man, but that will never be.

    That was the song that's responsible for the story that Michael beat the crap out of Jermaine.

    Honestly, reading now how he only understood the message of his brother after his death, and how it's now his new mission in life to carry his legacy is making me sick.

    Seriously Saida,

    This story is making me see sick too! I mean JJ is MJs most serious supporter right now. Is it out of guilt? Because whatever he thinks MJ did, he is certainly not a saint, by any stretch of the imagination. Of all the women in the world JJ could get, why would you go get the mother of your brother's children. I guess it's morality learned from good old Daddy. I hope MJ gave him a good old fashioned @@@-kicking. That song was treacherous and showed signs of definate jealousy, rivalry even, that he couldn't handle!

    In my opinion, this is all about money. I'm getting the impression lately that with the sole exception of Janet, the entire family more or less depended on Michael's income. Now he's gone and apparently the money goes to his mother, the kids and charities. They've gotta make a living somehow.

    Oh Saida I don't think so,

    On the interview with Jermaine on Larry King, Larry asked if he was bummed out about not being in the will, Jermaine answered, "No Larry, he left 40% to Katherine and if she's fine, we're fine." This is just "el mucho" part 2, they will never leave the Encino house in spirit, they will just live off Katherine now, thereby still living off Michael, because that's the money he generated. Sad, but their actually living off of him post mordem, poor baby, he carried a lot of weight on his shoulders. They mentioned right after he died that he was paying the note on the Encino house for Katherine.

    If his brothers would have stopped a long time ago driving Rolls Royces and expensive Mercedes Benzes, they would have had enough money to maintain a normal life style. They wanted to live like MIKE, but they did not have MIKEE-TYPE MONEY. But, he never seemed to abandon them, I'm sure it was very draining on his spirit.

    Bonnie,
    I, too, felt there was a little hurt in the song. But, as you know, Jermaine had also written
    the manuscript to a book he intended to publish about Mike that was even more hurtful and
    unflattering.
    There IS "something".
    And for those who keep insisting that the media shaped some of our opinions; umm, there
    ARE some of us who can think and observe for ourselves. I am certainly not a fan of the drive-by!
    I HAVE been a fan (not a screaming hair-pulling fan) of MJ for over 30 years however.

    But, the very last line was COLD, talk about turning the knife.

    I'm pratically sure that MJ was a castrato. I'm just wondering if he agreed to it as a little boy because he wanted fame so badly. Though a little boy should not be allowed to make that weighty of a decision, how could he really understand the real ramifications.

    Okay Becca,

    Feast your eyes on this, a little more research and look, I never knew this about JJ. How can he criticize anybody?

    Alejandra Genevieve Oaziaza
    A year after separating from Margaret Maldonado, Jermaine Jackson married his brother Randy Jackson's ex-girlfriend Alejandra Genevieve Oaziaza. Alejandra and Randy were in a long term relationship and had two children together: a daughter Genevieve, sons Donte and Randy, Jr (twins). Alejandra and the children lived at the Jackson family home Hayvenhurst. In 1996 the couple had a son Jaffar Jackson and in 2000, they had another son, Jermajesty.They divorced in 2004.

    Marrying Randy's ex-girlfriend reportedly caused a rift between the brothers. They have now, however, sorted it out as seen at brother Michael's trial.

    MY THOUGHTS: SO RANDY'S KIDS AND JERMAINE'S KIDS ARE BOTH, BROTHERS AND COUSINS/--WEIRD!!!

    And I'm pretty sure he was NOT a castrato. It was just an idea by the author of this article but apart fom his high voice (which BTW deepened as he got older) there's nothing really to support it. What about his song "2000 Watts" from his last studio album:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHd1rLurxNk

    The deep voice of Michael Jackson!

    The 2000 watts song voice might actually be electronically distorted, that's why I never mentioned it.
    But all people really need to do is go to youtube - check out the live videos of the last tours and hear him speaking to the audience. You won't hear a girly squeak voice there.

    Oh Suzy there is plenty to support the castrato theory,

    Remember in this blog there are articles proving that the slight deepness of the voice only tells when the castration took place, later, rather than earlier (10 years of age). I mean Jermaine pratically shouted it out loud in "Word to the Bad" if you type into your search engine the title + lyrics, you will get the lyrics to that song. It's so completely obvious that he is talking about MJ. Last 2 lines really supports everything in Hontas theory. Now you know Jermaine knows what happen to him way back then. I told you about the news release when I was little that said MJ's Dad was giving him female hormone injections to keep his voice from changing. The doctor in the child abuse case said he was an regressed emotional 10 year old, castrati all the way back to the 17th century were known for their emotional difficulties and tantrums. The lilly white children that are supposed to be his, but cannot be. How much evidence do we need to see? He didn't have to have his balls chopped off those days, several of the articles mentioned in this blog talked about chemical castration(hormonal injection). Plus the fact that MJ was constantly talking about suffering and rage that he felt. I'm sure a regressed 10 year old would feel a huge amount of fear in a grown up world. I do not believe that the sex he observed as small child and two prostitutes being locked in his room caused him to stunt his emotional growth at 10 years old. Richard Pryor witnessed a lot of sex at an early age and was raped as a young boy, he grew up in whore house, but did not have the emotional stunting that MJ had. MJ never went through the maturation process probably because of the chemical castration he was subject to. Remember he was the family meal ticket, in J. Randy Taraborelli's book, MJ was constantly trying to separate his family from his career and go off on his own, but would not let him go, they used every trick in the book, guilt/his mother's love, everything they could think of to stay tied to his wagon. These people were not above the estrogen injections that he was rumored to have received around 11 years old. And I think this is what all that rage and anger that was obviously in him was about. All of the Jacksons seem to tell their story through their music. listen the anger and the pain in his music, how he wants children so badly that he willing to pay Debbie Rowe to be a surrogate. It's all pretty obvious to me, I think Hontas is spot on.

    Actually, I agree with Suzy on this part. There's nothing to support the castrato theory. Having been an abused child is enough to feel suffering and rage, you don't need to be chemically castrated. Dick Gregory might well have been the one to start these rumours back then, with lord knows what motivations. All that "evidence" you are citing is nothing but rumours and hearsay and your interpretation of lyrics that might have meant something quite different. Conversely, you keep ignoring everything that points to the contrary : audios showing that his voice did become significantly deeper, photos and videos showing that he did have facial hair and he certainly didn't suffer from a lack of male anatomy in the downstairs department - wonder how that fits the castrato theory. It's like we're talking about two different persons.

    I guess I'll be leaving this discussion now. For some reason I cannot fathom you seem to be determined to believe that he was somehow "inadaequate", as Becca put it, and no evidence to the contrary anyone puts forward will change that. Even if it should it turn out he really has biological children, you'll probably still argue that this doesn't disprove the castrato theory. No matter your motivations, the end result is that it's just another variant of smearing on that man's name posthumously. I've had enough of that already. People can't seem to be able to accept greatness in a person without seeking for some abnormality that's responsible for it.

    Saida,

    Your eyes are closed.
    I accept that he was great, but there are inescapable truths here that lots of people see, not a smear. No matter how many articles that have been put forth to you, showing that if it's done later in life you don't have to have a little penis and having biological children absoulutely would disprove the theory. I have already mentioned earlier in this blog that castration is irreversible, you cannot father children, so we believe what we see, you cannot tell me that I am smearing someone because I am a non-dilusional, seeing, thinking individual that looks at the obvious clues that are ever present. I loved MJ's music and appreciated him, I don't see him as inadequate! To me he achieved greatness, he was highly intelligent, no matter what his emotional level, he was the freakin' "best there is" in the business, but I, like you do not love wearing blinders over my eyes. It is what it is, I'm a realist. If this did indeed happen to him, it is not he who is inadequate--it would be the selfish, greedy people around him who failed to protect a sweet and gifted child in an arena that consumed him, that are inadequate. But life can be cruel, but still very real.

    I'm not the one whose eyes are closed. The problem, Bonnie, is that you are willing to listen to everyone, Jermaine, Dick Gregory, Taraborelli - with one exception: Michael Jackson himself. Instead of listening to concerts or his home movies to actually get an impression how the man looks and sounds when it's not distorted by the media, you listen to a jealous brother and to gossip journalists like Taraborelli, and the rest of your inescapable truths is your interpretation, or should I say imagination.

    You've put forward no compelling support of the castrato theory whatsoever. Your whole argument is based on hearsay and your defense that any evidence to the contrary "does not disprove it". It's been nice to talk to you for a while, but now it's become an exercise in frustration. Like it or not, you're serving the smear campaigns. So I'm leaving, I've had enough of it.

    Saida,

    It doesn't have to get nasty, I don't agree with you, but I have the right to my own opinion. You cannot tell me that I am smearing someone because I am examining the issues put forth. Just because someone doesn't agree with you don't take it personal. I believe what I believe and you are free to believe what you believe. If honest and frank discussions are too much for you than feel free to leave the discussion, but not with animosity, I hold no such ill feelings toward you, we are merely discussing some of the issues put forth.

    I have to go somewhere right now, so chow bella.

    Sincerely,

    A fellow fan of the Man

    I haven't said you are smearing, I said you're serving the smear campaigns. Probably without even realising it.

    You're not examining the issue, that's precisely the problem. You're completely ignoring any evidence to the contrary. You've posted next to nothing substantial in response to anything I've put forward. Your responses were references to hearsay, the stereotypical "I see what I see" (which has me wondering if we are talking about two different persons, for I see nothing of the sort) and "this doesn't disprove the theory". You can immunise any position with that sort of argument and that's why that sort of "honest and frank" discussion is frustrating, and why I see no use continuing it.

    Okay Saida,

    Now either a person has to agree with you or they are a part of the smear campaign (willingly or unwillingly), you are behaving like a conversational bully, we do not have to agree with you. I have in earlier blogs showed a few articles on range of vocal ability in castrati, I've already discussed and shown articles that you don't have to be a strict soprano to be a castrato and so has Hontas, so you disagree, but we stillhave a right to believe what we believe.

    You are too emotionally tied to MJ, relax, you act as if you're his mother. I would understand all this "frustration" your words, not mine, if you were his mother, but you're not. You bully conversations when someone says something that you don't believe and if they don't agree with you then they are either being influenced by the smear machine or aiding the smear machine. They can't just disagree with you, because you have to be right! Then you end your comment with saying I am not going to continue with this discussion anymore and then you continue discussing. So if you don't know how or don't want to have discussions with intelligent people, THEN DON'T. But, please don't bring all your frustrations to the conversations, because everyone respects your reasons for feeling the way you feel, so I don't understand why you cannot give them the same respect. Each of us has our own mind and our own opinion, live and let live. I will end with a quote from Deepak Chopra, a good friend of MJs:

    Deepak_Chopra An enormous amount of energy becomes available once we give up the need to be right.

    Thank you and goodbye.

    So if someone calls your so-called evidence BS they're "conversation bullies". How convenient.

    I'm not "too emotionally tied" to MJ. Please keep from psychoanalysing me, it's bad enough you're psychoanalysing MJ without having him met even once - or have you? I own 3 MJ CDs and I've been to two concerts. Not exactly a rabid fan. But I despise slander and character defamation, and you're contributing to it, whether you like to hear it or not.

    I'm sorry you apparently can't grasp that it's frustrating to discuss with someone who's not willing to consider conflicting evidence, or who can't distinguish evidence from heresay. Now you're stooping as low as to suggest I don't want to have discussions with intelligent people. Well, you assume too much. In my book. intelligent people are willing to look at conflicting evidence. I haven't seen you doing that.

    Keep reading your tabloids and gossip journalists, and promoting their smear campaign. Maybe some day you'll see the light, but I doubt it.

    Thanks for the conversation, and good-bye.

    Citing Deprak Choopra? LOL I'm sure he would wholeheartedly embrace your castrato theory (this is sarcastic, just to make sure you're not mistaking me).

    oh I forgot to mention I lifted that paragraph straight from Jermaine's biography

    I agree they all seem so dysfunctional. Yet...First Jermaine and then Randy took their
    turn at trying to be in charge of Michael's affairs. With each brother, there was a change
    of staff. They NEVER left him alone. Pay attention to the line of the song: "It's not
    guaranteed that youll be spreading your wings"
    This is relevant to the castrato theory, as astute as MJ seemed to be...WHY did these
    people always seem to be able to control him? Were his main decisions influenced or made by
    his business managers and others in charge?
    Because his mind was still locked at 12 or 15? "I know your still a Child".
    yes, he wouldn't have been hit with the ramifications of this action until possibly in
    his mid twenties. "IF" he agreed- at say- age 12 or 13, then, "they" could always say to
    him "but it is what you wanted".
    He could still be very smart and articulate..but trapped in a 12-15 year old emotional state.

    Becca,

    He was diagnosed as a "regressed 10-year-old" during his trial in 2005:

    " During the investigation, Jackson was examined by mental health professional Dr. Stan Katz, who spent several hours with the accuser too. Katz said Jackson was a regressed 10-year-old, and did not fit the profile of a pedophile.[118]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson

    He wasn't an idiot though. I think it means he was regressed emotionally, as you said. But what I disagree with is that it means he was castrated. Why would it mean that? His regression has more to do with the abuse he suffered as a child: the beatings and that he was exposed to sexual activity at such a young age (they had to perform at strip clubs, his brothers had sex with fans in the same room when he had to pretend to sleep during that, his father having sex with fans etc.). His oldest sister Rebbie also said that when he was 15 a family member locked him into a room with two hookers so that he loses his virginity and that deeply traumatized Michael. Nobody knows for sure what happened in the room, most sources say, he just talked to the hookers all night long, read to them from the Bible and asked them why they are doing what they are doing, but it was a big trauma for him. As far as I am concerned it is child abuse.

    So IMO this is all enough to understand why he was regressed. He didn't need to be castrated to be regressed. It's all psychological, not physical.

    As I said, if he would be castrated we would know it as he was body searched by the police back in 1993. Nothing abnormal was reported apart from his blotches from his skin condition, vitiligo.

    There's no way he was physically castrated. I mean honestly look at those videos from the history tour. Same for those fools who claim he was impotent (was that Uri Geller?) Impotent men don't get erections from smooching girls on stage, nor do gays for that matter.

    If there's any possibility at all to this theory, it's the version assuming chemical castration. But that would have had to happen in the 1960s. But were these medications even available for people like the Jackson's back then?..

    Folks, just take your time and thoroughly check out youtube for the live concerts of the history tour. It'll also tell volumes how his speaking voice sounded when he wasn't masquerading. Listen to this, for example, especially at the end:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u8biQkj54
    Does he sound like he was castrated here?

    Suzy,

    All those audio taped conversations you posted with Michael & Glenda conversating are gone. Why do you suppose all that stuff is being taken down?

    Saida said: If there's any possibility at all to this theory, it's the version assuming chemical castration. But that would have had to happen in the 1960s. But were these medications even available for people like the Jackson's back then?..

    Answer: Of course there would have been available medication for people like the Jacksons, MJ was not 11 until 1969 by then they were part of the Motown money machine, lots of things are absolutely available when money is present.

    I am so hoping he wasn't castrated, you must understand that. My reasoning would be
    that I would never have wanted him to feel so much pain from not being able to have normal
    relationships, always feeling inadequate, ect, ect. Now, that part sadly doesn't matter,
    as his life was troubled enough and it ran deeper than even I ever imagined.
    I need to go back and re-listen to the Dick Gregory interview on youtube. I could have
    swore he mentioned "something" pertaining to castration or chemicals.
    Has anyone watched the youtube video: "Dick Gregory - You Don't Know The Real Michael"

    Like I mentioned in my very first post on this topic-I have heard this theory since the late
    70's. I have NEVER heard it about any other man..no matter how high their voices were
    or, how feminine their mannerisms. (and here, I am not referring to MJ).
    This was before the internet and cell phones...I wonder how the "rumor" would have started
    and spread. Did someone leak something and it just traveled word of mouth? Castrati and
    even castration is not a word most people just toss around. Then, funny, as MJ got older,
    he did start acting like a castrati in HIS mannerisms...sorry, but he did....and that may have
    given credence to what was simply a rumor.

    Becca,

    I don't know, it could have leaked out like everything else about Michael that leaks out. Even he and his family said that he had to change his phone number constantly, because someone always got it. He was just so freakin' popular that nothing could be totally protected with him. But as far as the castration thing goes, he told people himself, you see from the phone conversations that we all listened to before they took the audio copy down, in his own voice he told Glenda about "something that happened to him" and he was talking about telling this Kathy person that he trusted so much when he felt like really talking. So he told a few people close to him and someone like MJ can't tell anyone anything, but it won't be kept completely private, he was just too big, too famous for them to not have shared it with at least one person. It seems everybody wanted to know about Michael Jackson, he lumed large all over the world. Dick Gregory was his very close and trusted friend. He trusted DG more than he did his family, MJ's mom called DG one time when he was extremely ill and in need of help and he dropped everything and came to MJ and took him to a hospital that rehydrated him and got him back on his feet. So, I don't think that DG was just making that up in part 2 of "You don't know the real Michael Jackson" MJ loved and trusted this man and vice versa.. His mom knew he would listen to Dick Gregory.

    Suzy,
    I missed the story on the strippers. That is horrible and vile! WHAT was/is wrong with
    his family?
    As long as I followed MJ's life, I was never into the whole screaming hysteria fan thing.
    Though he loved his fans, he didn't like that mauling effect from hoards of fans grabbing
    at him. No WONDER! Emotionally, he WAS 10-12 years old.

    Actually it was oftentimes him who initiated the fan hugs.
    The adolescence must have been horrible. Just to think that 25 years later he fell apart emotionally every time he performed that Jackson 5 medley.

    I sadly agree with you. I wonder why LMP doesnt defend him more as we all she knows the truth and that is always the best for MJ now. I think poor michael has been and always will be just money to his family except Janet who has proven her talent and work ethics to be unapproachable something her simblings dont have. I can only believe Mrs. Jackson doesnt know because Michael gave her the last beat of his heart, his precious children whom he had such innocent love for, they call Daddy. TO joseph and jerrmaine, GOD will meet you one day. Ithink the world will find out one day everything you did did to that little boy we love MICHAEL JACKSON...........

    A lot of you asking about the feasability of chemical castration being available in the 60's/early 70's seem to not realize it wouldn't have taken pulling strings to get some exotic or difficult to procure drugs - all it would have taken was common birth control pills that many people were taking by then or just estrogen hormone pills lots of women were prescribed during menapause. Early version of birth control pills were extremely potent and strong (far too much in fact, it made them far more dangerous than todays low dose versions). It could have been done simply by giving MJ his mother or sister (or Joe's latest GF) BC pills - not in the least difficult. Not saying this is the best method for a chemical castration, or even the most effective method, but it would have done the job to a degree that it got the results needed but certainly not to the extent a medically supervised or doctor's prescribed regime would have. But I don't think they would have gone to a doctor for this, only something that would have been relatively easy to do like slipping already prescribed pills to him that were absolutely easy to get for any one that wanted them at that time. (Many men wanted to undergo sex reassignment, the first step for them is to start taking birth control pills, its the most affordable and most accessible method by far. Its what many start with since they can't afford a doctor (or can't get permission) to start the medical treatment for MtF reassignment so they use BC until they can)

    Unity,

    wow, that simple to do? I guess industry insiders would know how to do that easily. How long would an 11 or 12 year old have to take the BC pills to keep the voice from changing?

    His manhood seems intact to me in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUYD13

    Hfarmer
    First as people have raise above there is the possibility of chemical castration.  This would leave his manhood intact.
    Second there is the possibility of him suffering an autoimmune disorder which destroys his reproductive system. Which also explains why he would use donated sperm to have kids. 

    Third castration can be accomplished by removing the testes only the penis is usually left in place. 

    Fourth people have written about effeminate mannerisms, castration does not have to cause effeminate mannerisms.  The whole of a man is greater than the sum of his balls. 

    ____________

    On a different topic I have entered a contest being held by victoria's secret.  The point of which is to write about what you love about your body in an inspiring way.  Take a look at my entry and vote for me.  

    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Hontas,

    On a another topic, I was out all day, but I noticed on a t.v. in a store that Michael Jacksons death was ruled a homicide today, breaking news. It cannot be long before they arrest Dr. Conrad and most likely charge him.

    His manhood seems intact to me in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUYD13

    It appears that according to these "theorists", chemical castration seems to arrest physical development of some body parts but not others. Lack of chest hair or muscle development in chest and arms are considered "evidence" for the theory, while it is argued that above average developed hands, feet and male organs "don't disprove the theory". Likewise, a high singing voice is "evidence" for the theory but a low speaking voice "doesn't disprove it". Why chemical castration should impede the development of chest hair but not of the male organs is beyond me. The whole line of argument is put together according to convenience.

    If the link above doesn't work try typing into youtube: Michael Jackson smooth criminal live. His manhood looks intact in those tight gold pants. I doubt he was castrated.

    Check out this video, I highly doubt he was castrated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-6s0jxcVWM

    In this video, the lower notes are in a hoarse, forced, stage whisper. The high notes are strong and clear. This does not support the point you try to make.

    Check out this video, I highly doubt he was castrated: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-6s0jxcVWM

    May I refer you to this thread for more "evidence" on the matter?
    http://mjjdreamworld.yuku.com/topic/450/t/PANTS-ahem-FULL-PANTS-Gold-Pan...

    Here's another video that shows off his attributes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ_NXXhp6o0

    Oh, there are a lot more on youtube if one's just willing to look for them. There's also a striking example of stage performances that should put claims of "effeminate mannerisms" to rest, lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rml7cihYkc

    Hfarmer
    Sadia, Castration does not have to mean penis removal, not at all.   Second talk of effeminate mannerisms is out of place because castration does not make one behaviorally effeminate.    
    On a different topic I have entered a contest being held by victoria's secret.  The point of which is to write about what you love about your body in an inspiring way.  Take a look at my entry and vote for me.  

    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I know it doesn't mean penis removal. But it should arrest the development of primary male organs just as much as that of the secondary attributes like muscle development, chest hair and facial hair.

    From wikipedia:
    A subject of castration who is altered before the onset of puberty will retain a high voice, non-muscular build, and small genitals. They may well be taller than average, as the production of sex hormones in puberty—particularly testosterone—stops long bone growth. The person may not develop pubic hair and will have a small sex drive or none at all. Castrations after the onset of puberty will typically reduce the sex drive considerably or eliminate it altogether.

    From the article you posted yourself above:
    "In castration before puberty there is (1) tallness, abnormal length or thickness of the legs, underdevelopment of hair on the face and body, with good development of scalp hair, thinness. Obesity develops much later in some cases from reaction from the pituitary gland. (2) Inability of the male to perform sexual intercourse and lack
    of sexual craving, defective development of the external genitals, prostate and seminal vesicles. (3)

    Small genitals, defective development of external genitals? Non-muscular build? Have you seen his tighs and his tummy during the history tour? Nothing in the videos and pics that Anonymous2 and I have posted suggests any of the attributes mentioned. I've commented on the "high voice" enough already; his normal speaking voice is much deeper. You can't just pick two or three traits that seem to support your theory and ignore everything else that points to the contrary.

    With regard to the effeminate manners, it was yourself in your OP who brought up the argument about his "feminine ways".

    You are informed about castration/chemical castration, but in my opinion you are not informed about Michael Jackson. You have been fooled by masquerades he put up for the media, and by their agenda to paint him as a freak. It was his own doing in part, I'll grant you that, because he put up that masquerade with the girly voice and the effeminate manners in the first place. Nonetheless it's a public persona. I can only repeat, if you are interested in a complete picture, and not just in upholding the castrato theory no matter what, go check out those sources which are first hand and not distorted by media masquerades and manipulation. Go to youtube, and look for Michael Jackson's Private Home Movies (which were never meant to be released until he changed his mind in 2002), look for Michael Jackson: The Angry Black Man (a speech about racism in the recording industry filmed by an amateur) and in particular look for live video clips from his tours, especially the last ones, when he's talking to his fans. You'll see a quite different side of Michael Jackson there, and I'd be surprised if after that you'll still be convinced of the castrato theory. There is very little that actually supports it and is not explainable by far more obvious factors; mostly the theory hinges on the assumption that it's impossible for a normal male to have a singing voice like that. Well, maybe it's not impossible after all, and it's just that his talent was that unique.

    Anonymous 2,

    There was no one saying that having a penis means you have not been castrated. All the way back in the 16th and 17th century they had castrati that women loved to have sex with. Some could even ejaculate, but there will be no sperm in the ejaculate and there will be no fathering of children. A castrato will have some of the many effects mentioned, but not all. MJ even has a little facial hair. Depending on when the castration was done determines what characteristics will be shown. To have just a high register, soprano voice would have to be a very early castration. Just look up some of the articles on the internet, there are live males that have been castrated now that have been castrate for medical purposes and written about the charasteristics that they have experienced. Each person is a little different the endocrine system is very complex and symptoms of castration does not read like a laundry list. Do some research and see what you find, I think it will surprise you how varied the symptoms are and what you will find out about this condition.

    Saida,
    Please do not misquote me. I did NOT say MJ was inadequate, I wrote the following:

    ...."I am so hoping he wasn't castrated, you must understand that. My reasoning would be
    that I would never have wanted him to feel so much pain from not being able to have normal
    relationships, always feeling inadequate, ect, ect. Now, that part sadly doesn't matter,
    as his life was...."

    It is MY opinion that IF a male was castrated, they could view themselves as inadequate.
    Maybe they would, maybe not.
    I have not spent alot of time staring at MJ's private areas, seeing if he had an erection or not and
    I seriously doubt I will.
    I have a right to my opinions and my opinion on this theory has not been determined fully one way or the
    other. I am leaning more towards Honta's theory however.

    Becca,

    Neither you nor I said anything about MJ being inadequate and I do agree that you have a right to your own opinion. Staring at MJ's genitals and e-mailing them to everybody is not my idea of a non-weird passtime either. Especially since the actual having of a penis is not the subject anyway. There is nothing wrong with you intelligently discussing your thoughts and feelings in a calm and rational manner, that's what adults do, Please don't think that you have to be defensive, sometimes a person is not capable of able deliberation on a topic and nothing you do or say can help.

    There's no limit how low you are willing to stoop, is there? Where have I emailed everyone about these vids or pictures?
    You're willing to openly advertise that MJ's private parts are dysfunctional. I've offered you evidence that they are not, and I've explained that this isn't a question of "having a penis", but of whether chemical castration arrests physical development of male sexual organs, and the sources cited say that it clearly does. But as before, you're not willing to look at conflicting evidence, now on the grounds that it is somehow "indecent", and I am the "pervert". You think that he'd rather have you advertising he's a castrate, than women look at his private parts? So much for your "intelligent discussion". Pathetic.

    "sometimes a person is not capable of able deliberation on a topic and nothing you do or say can help." On that, I agree with you.

    Becca,
    I haven't quoted you at all, so I couldn't have misquoted you. I said "inadequate, as Becca put it", I didn't mean to imply that you were the one who thought he was inadequate. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    btw. I find your indignation about "staring" at MJ's private parts rather amusing, given you're willing to consider and discuss the possibility that some of them are missing, or at least don't function normally. Not to mention his wardrobe strongly suggests that he intended for women to stare at them.

    Hey People,

    I was just washing dishes and I turned on in the middle of rick sanchez on CNN and he reported that the night MJ died and you know they said he left the Staple center rehearsal at 12:30, rick said at 1:30 am, Dr Conrad gave MJ 10 mg of Valium, @2:00 am he gave MJ 2 mg Ativan, @3:00 am he gave MJ 2mg Vesed, then @ 5:00am 2mg Ativan, @ 7:30am 2mg Versed and finally @10:40 Diprivan 25mg. OMG!!! MJ has been on drugs for lots and lots of years, I would have died after the 2 am meds were given. He was trying to get to sleep, but his tolerance level was really high.

    Rick said he was traveling during one of his past concerts with an Anesthesiologist, well heck, that was a cry for help, didn't somebody care enough to sound the alarm, step in, force their way in? Somebody?

    Bonnie, I don't know WHO is taking all of the youtube information down. I tried to look
    up the analysis commentary of the 02 announcement that MJ did, and that article has
    been taken down.
    It's called Damage Control. Apparently, every forum, board, and even some news websites
    are being monitored. If you notice, if anyone brings up any valid concerns or suggestions,
    there is always one or two people who dispute it aggressively. Think about it, if Michael Jackson
    or his family is shown to be in "bad" light, it will effect the SALE of his memorabilia and the
    "tributes" his family wants to make $$$ off of.
    These same people have no problem bringing up the media's one-sided view, as they try to
    shut down all conversations with the same slant as the media has done.

    Well, there are laws against libel, slander and defamation of character - which means publishing false statements about a person that damage their image. Even on the internet these actions are punishable by law, though a lot of people seem ot be unaware of that.
    If you are a website administrator, you are liable for what's published on your website, meaning if you don't take such statements down, you might face charges. Jackson attorneys have threatened to monitor and if neccessary sue sites (and rightfully so, considering what's been going on the last couple of months) and youtube and other sites are doing the responsible tihing taking down input by people who keep distributing false and defamatory statements or can't express their criticism in a respectful way.

    Hank
    If you're telling me a California court will hold us responsible for the comments of an anonymous person on this website, your knowledge of law is flawed.    Jackson's music catalogue will sell for $2 billion.   If they want to lose a chunk of that to us in the settlement we will win and get me on the Today show talking about it, I am okay with that.
    Yes Hank,

    I think they should put you on the Today show, you look like a movie star! I think you would do well! LOL

    Becca,

    hmmm......that's interesting, I hope this site doesn't get taken down,

    I like to interface and communicate on issues that I find stressful. I grew up with MJ, he's always been around, doing something or saying something strange, I was terribly schocked and hurt when I heard that he died, he seemed like such a decent fellow, it's always the nice ones that get hurt. Why couldn't Joe have been the one who died, he's already raised his children, lived his life to the full, MJ still had so much to live for, his kids, his career rebirth.....

    Huh? Where did I mention your site? She was asking why youtube is taking files down, wasn't she?

    Hank
    Right, I guess I worded that poorly.   If YouTube took down videos, it was not because libel, it was because of copyright. 

    Then I was trying to say that if anyone wants to come after us for the comments or article about Jackson here, I am happy to get rich.   :) 

    I guess I should have put those in separate paragraphs.
    It wasn't just copyrights. They've taken down a lot of videos on conspiracy theories, for example, which was clearly not for copyright reasons. I suspect it wasn't even because of MJ being slandered, but because of other people having been painted in a very defamatory manner in these videos.

    BTW, US legislation when it comes to slander of celebrities is something else. It's rather unique in western countries, which is why this phenomenon called "libel tourism" exists - US celebrities sueing for slander in other countries because the legislation there is much more restrictive. I've read things on US sites during the past weeks (again, not talking about this site, or the present subject), if someone would've published that on a website about a native celebrity in my country, they'd've gotten their butts sued off. The lax legislation in the US is in part responsible for the emergence of such slander campaigns.

    Hello there,

    Wow, a second funeral/memorial, this is the longest I've heard that any U.S. person has ever taken to get into the ground, finally his remains are at rest. It's good they are in so secure a place, because some crazies might try to dig them up. But, not in that place, it's like Fort Knox.

    Did you notice how his good friend Gotham Chopra who gave highlights during and before the ceremony kept mentioning how resourceful MJ was. He said a few times,"he went out and created a family for himself" yet another clue. I thought the story was so funny about Gotham Chopra and MJ writing some songs together and MJ going into the bathroom and coming out with a suitcase full of cash. GC said he gave him $10,000 or $5,000 in cash for helping with words and rhymes and so forth. That was hilarious! GC said that everyone who knows MJ knows that he famous for having large amounts of cash on hand. He shared a lot of funny memories with Mj, that was nice. I wanted him to speak more in depth, he kept saying that MJ was a contridiction, I wondered specifically what he meant by that The Chopra family seemed to be very close to MJ, I bet they could tell somethings, I twitter with Deepak from time to time.

    Hi, I don't agree with your theory. He just has a boyish voice like many other singers do like Justin Timberlake and Chris Brown for example. There are many Indian singers I suggest you to look up called Unnikrishnan (Song: 'Poovukul'), Sonu Nigam (Song: 'Mere Haath Mein'), A.R. Rahman (song: 'Dil Se Re') and Naresh Iyer ('Munbe Vaa' features a female singer). They all retain their boyish voices. I think alot of the times MJ was just very soft spoken. If you listen to him in the later years he spoke with a deeper voice and also sang with a deeper voice. He has a high pitch range, and I think when he goes higher it makes his voice sound more boyish. If you listen to him singing in lower pitch ranges it doesn't sound too boyish. Also, I think back then when MJ was in his height of popularity it was uncommon to hear people with voices like him and that's why people made a big deal out of it. I don't think Joe Jackson was cruel enough to do anything like that and I'm sure Katherine Jackson would have never let him do that to him. I don't think Michael hated his father. I think he was hurt by alot of things his father did like beat him and his brothers, make him work constantly as a child and cheat on his mother - especially since Michael's mother meant the world to him. And if you doubt how much of a man he was you should listen to interviews about the women he dated and what the have to say about him. He is just a special and beautiful person sent by God in a world as rotten as Earth which is why he seemed so strange to those who didn't understand.
    Long Live the King of Pop.

    Hi Anonymous:

    Most of MJ's brothers speak softly, his voice is only one of the considerations in this theory and not just because of it's softness. You're right a lot of other singers have soft voices, for instance Prince, but there are not a hundred other interesting facts that make a composite for him being a castrato either. You came to the conversation a little late, but someone mentioned earlier that Dick Gregory said it straight out, that he believed that MJ was injected with female hormones to preserve his voice. Dick Gregory was someone that MJ trusted implicitly, even more than he trusted his family. MJ's mom called Dick Gregory when Michael was sick and DG came and took him to a hospital. MJ's own father could not get through the security to see him sometimes and could not get him on the phone easily. This was also mentioned earlier maybe before you joined the discussion, MJ's brother wrote a song called "Word to the Bad" and in it he mentioned that MJ would never be a man, that he knew that he was still a child. The song was recorded, but never released. You cam imagine that little number had to be stopped b4 release, it was extremely clear that he was angry with Michael and telling too much. I believe that MJ's brother would know what happened with MJ as a young adolescent. His family members mentioned repeatedly that he didn't really have a relationship and we know from the phone conversations that were on the internet in MJ's own voice that he desparately wanted a relationship like everyone else around him had. The phone conversations also reveal that something so secret had happened to him and that he only shared this with a few very close, long-time friends. He was a virgin for so long, a man at the top of his game, women dying to be with him and yet he cannot find a wife for this so desired relationship he longed to be in? If you read back in the blog, there have been so many contributions by so many on this blog, that make this theory very believable. Especially with the comment from his good friend Dick Gregory. Now as far as who did it? I don't know, I would hate to think that a father would do such a thing to a beloved and gifted son, but in the face of the kind of money they were looking at making with his pure voice and the socio-economic conditions they dealt with on a daily basis, who can judge another for what they may have done? There was so much dysfunction there, pain and love too seemed to exist. I cannot say for certain, but the preponderance of the evidence is in support of this theory.

    However, I respect your opinion also.

    Check out the lyrics to Jermaine Jackson’s “Word to the Badd…”
    On YouTube

    What up yo,
    word to the badd

    Reconstructed
    Been abducted
    Don’t know who you are
    They may love you
    they don’t know you
    Lonely superstar
    never think about who you love
    only think about number one
    You forget about where you started from
    You only think about what you want
    don’t care about how it’s done
    you only think about you, your throne
    Be it right or be it wrong

    It ain’t about your world
    It ain’t about the things that you do
    If you don’t care, I don’t care
    Cause you keep thinkin’ ’bout you
    It ain’t about you takin’ my pie
    You been takin’ for a long time
    If you don’t care, I don’t care
    If you keep
    Well I ain’t thinkin’ ’bout you

    What up yo, word to the badd

    Once you were made
    You changed your shade
    Was your color wrong?
    Could not turn back
    It’s a known fact
    You were too far gone
    You know I tried to be there for you
    Like a brother I care for you
    It didn’t matter you always play me off
    You only care about what you want
    You don’t care about how it’s done
    You only think about you, your throne
    Be it right or wrong

    It ain’t about your world
    It ain’t about the things that you do
    If you don’t care, I don’t care
    Cause you keep thinkin’ ’bout you
    It ain’t about you takin’ my pie
    You been takin’ for a long time
    If you don’t care, I don’t care
    If you keep
    Well I ain’t thinkin’ ’bout you
    Oh no no, I ain’t thinkin’ ’bout you
    Oh no

    What up yo, word to the badd

    Thinkin’ about that pie that you’ve been takin’ from me
    From a brother to another brother hard to believe
    Lost and don’t know it yet you still show it
    Givin’ seems to be harder than it is to receive
    The glass has gotten shady, time to make it clearer,
    Clean it up and lets start with the Man in the mirror.
    Theres sadness there brother, aint no mistaken it,
    Get a grip cause youre not far from breakin it.
    Thinkin about the time when we used to be close,
    It shouldnt be past tense, cause nobody knows,
    What the future may hold, what tomorrow might bring,
    Its not guaranteed that youll be spreading your wings

    But meanwhile, I continue to smile, cause in the back of my head,
    I know you’re still a child
    You say that your a man, but that will never be.

    He doesn't have a boyish voice, he put on a front. Take 30 seconds of your time and listen to the first half minute of this clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIbb5kxceE&feature=fvw

    Good post Bonnie.
    I have not thought of this topic for awhile, and I have tried to remain objective. I have
    come to the decision that it is more likely than not.
    Not to reiterate everything already written, but not ONE but too many coincidences for ONE
    person.
    The autoimmune disorders, the body development, the availability of adult male kin and family
    members to compare him to, the voice, the lack of sexual interest.
    HIS recorded voice expressing the "something", quotes from his brother, D. Gregory, and LaToya,
    His own fascination with the Baroque period in dress and art..the cupids really got my attention back
    when.
    His inner pain and loneliness. Let's face it..a LOT of kids miss their childhoods..not just due to
    celebrity, but also due to bad, neglectful, or horrific childhoods.
    His emotional immature nature...that was agreed upon by most everyone..and I believe is what
    led to his demise as he was too easily manipulated and controlled. (another topic).
    But...also, after his death...it seemed to me, that his FAMILY...especially his father..seemed relieved!
    Joe has never seemed happier..was he afraid that at some point MJ would tell all...or enough time
    and someone would tell it? Not that somebody may still tell...and I hope they do...preferably when
    Joe is still alive.
    All of this said, it "also" is possible, he was one of the rare individuals of the world that simply soaked
    up all the world's plight and pain and it effected him and all these emotions came out in his music.

    If I may..and this because the image will not leave me.
    One of the saddest clips of Michael Jackson is towards the end of his life.
    He is shown briefly with bodyguards and "handlers" rather pushing and prodding him
    along. He is trying to tell the fans something about "they" are making him do 50 concerts
    and he only wanted to do 10.
    He is, as always, being so truthful and seemed so hurt and almost appealing to them in
    a cry for help.

    Becca,

    Is this seen with his handlers on the internet? I'd love to see it, everyone seems to think that he was being pushed into 50 concerts. Remember the Rabbi friend that Michael had? Even he said that there is no way that MJ could have done 50 concerts. He seemed to be talking about his psychological state not his physical state. I guess 50 concerts would mean more money for them also. The Rabbi's name was Shmuley, they seemed like they were great friends. MJ pushed him away also because he was trying to help him get off drugs. If you want to see the MJ interviews given by the rabbi, just put Michael Jackson + Shmuley into your search engine and you will see the articles, they are interesting.

    Wow! What a fascinating and informative blog here!

    I hear on these videos that sometimes Michael's voice *was* deeper.

    But was that because maybe sometimes he was hoarse? I have a male friend with a documented hormonal problem, who has a high voice, but one time when he was hoarse he sounded like a normal man.

    Also, could he have possibly been taking testosterone or reducing female hormones for a while in an effort to make his marriage more successful?

    Could the stubble we sometimes saw him with have been makeup?

    In any case, the thinness was certainly not from being a castrato. They were generally chubby -- just like fixed dogs and cats are generally chubby. PIctures of Farinelli and Mareschi both show chubby guys. Michael's thinness might have been from good dieting practices.

    What might have been from being a castrato was the very loose joints that we often see in some of his dancing. Castrati supposedly had loose joints.

    Does he sound hoarse to you in this clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvjy6MQr6fE
    I doubt he would record for an album while being hoarse.

    "Could the stubble we sometimes saw him with have been makeup?"
    Please. Next question will be whether he had each stubble implanted, like these tabloid idiots claimed. He didn't wear make-up here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyc1sxAkpVw

    His voice coach Seth Riggs said he had a four octave range. I've linked the training sessions above, they are on youtube. A castrato couldn't have done that, he couldn't have reached the lower registers. Riggs also denied the "female hormone" rumours. He simply had an incredible voice. Why is that so hard to believe?

    There are several videos linked to on this page which include someone singing in a deeper voice. Curiously, though, one thing that all of these videos have in common is that Michael is not pictured as singing when this deeper voice appears. Why?

    Because all of them were from the Invincible album, and there were no live performances done for that. Official videos usually don't prevail long on youtube for obvious reasons (copyright).

    No. The alleged training sessions with Riggs did not show him singing either. Nor, IMO, did they even sound like Michael Jackson.

    Actually I'm not sure how many official videos for Invincible were done at all. This album was very poorly promoted, due to the quarrel with Sony. The "we've had enough" song is from the Ultimate collection released in 2004, there were no official videos for that, and no live performances.

    All the more reason to be suspicious that it could not actually be Michael Jackson singing this lower song. In fact, at one point, the song goes into a higher register, where it does seem to be Michael singing -- and there is a definite break there as if there were a change in singers or a splicing.

    Granted the singing does sound a lot like Michael, including the accent and the slight congested sound that sometimes came from the nose surgeries, but a good mimic, possibly one of his brothers, could easily have done that.

    Are you questioning whether the artist credited on the album is actually the artist singing every time no video has been made, or is that a special thing when it comes to MJ? Because then you must be questioning about 90 percent of the material released by anyone; for the vast majority of songs no videos exist.

    If he sang part of the song -- and wrote the rest -- then it would be fair to call it his video.

    Anonymous,

    The stubble was very suspicious, it was reported that MJ had transplanted hair from the groin area in an effort to grow a beard. If you notice all of MJs life he had a very faint mustache above his lip, you could only see it over the edge of each side of the lip. I mean, I've seen women with more mustache than what MJ had in his twenties. Then all of a sudden when he gets 40 something, he has all this weird looking stubble and then it goes away as suddenly as it appears and you never see it again. Hair growth doesn't normally work like that, if its there, its there and it doesn't suddenly go away. When MJ went door to door when he was preaching as a Jehovah's witness, some of those people said he would be disguised wearing an obviously, fake mustache and wig to protect his identity. One lady commented that you knew the mustache was fake because his face was very, very smooth not able to support that kind of mustache growth. He was an adult then, so where did all this facial stubble come from and where did it go all of a sudden? It was only seen for a very short time. MJ was not above trying to transplant some hair from the pubic area, it makes sense to me. Look at how many plastic surgeries he had. You know how ingenious MJ could be, when he wanted something, it seemed to me that he would do whatever he had to do.....to make it happen. His friend Gotham Chopra kept mentioning on Larry King how he went out and created a family for himself. This "thing" that happen to him was not his fault, so why not use your means and position in life to get the things that were taken from you at such a young and tender age. Also anonymous, there are some articles on castrati that say a castrato's voice may not be soprano high if the castration was done later in the pubaceous cycle rather than at 10 years of age, for example.

    Not all boys are sopranos, just as not all women are sopranos. Some boys are altos, even at a very young age. A boy who was an alto when castrated would stay an alto. He would not become a soprano.

    Bonnie,

    I swear, I have never read so much crazy BS in one place in my life. Take a look at the promo for the HIStory tour. The man has a five o'clock shadow clearly showing on his cleanshaven face. MJ wasn't crazy or obsessed with himself but there sure are a lot of blind and deaf armchair psychologists who are.

    Castrati? WTF. Obviously you've never heard 2000 Watts.

    Tracy, I'm just sayin'

    His facial hair does not look normal to me. It popped up suddenly and it must have to take root before it starts looking normal. Take a look:

    http://www.weirdpicturearchive.com/pics/jackofacialhair.php

    I do think that Michael Jackson was obsessed with himself. Do you know anybody whose face has changed that much in a lifetime? Check it out!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri61lBfMBu0

    http://anomalies-unlimited.com/Jackson.html

    Here's a site with some research into all the changes that MJs face has experienced Tracy. Remember, he did all of his facial changes right in front of our eyes. He didn't have the luxury of never being photographed for years, like you and I would have, he was constantly monitored by people who write about and observe celebrities as their job. You've seen all the pictures before, this article describes some of the procedures:

    http://www.anti-aging-guide.org/michael-jackson-plastic-surgery.html

    and-uh-oh.......I'm no arm chair psychologist, just an observer an a thinker, we're just trading ideas, that's all.

    Bonnie, the links you supplied helped me to understand why you say the things you do. Suffice it to say many people have gone down the rabbit hole you are down and frankly, there is probably nothing that will ever set you straight. That dumb morph video proves nothing. You would need to see pictures taken in similar light with the same angle and hair out of the face to actually observe the changes in a person's face that you don't actually know in real life. Also as you say, this is the most photographed man on earth so why has no one ever captured him with plastic surgery bandages and the swelling that comes with it? No picture of him in a mask shows any of the swelling in the eye area that would accompany a nosejob.

    He had vitiligo and lupus, something that you apparently know nothing about. He also had a variety of hairstyles, in different lengths and textures. Suffice it to say I'm not one of the sheeple who have been convinced by the stupid morph videos. I prefer to observe pictures on my own with an eye to discovering if the mythology surrounding this man has any basis in fact. Why don't you give it a try? Just the masthead on this site is enough for a thinking person to observe that the real changes were skin color (due to vitiligo) and the natural aging process. http://www.gallery.steady-laughing.com/index.php?sessionid=baa1aac0ef6ce...

    Anyway, I don't know if I'll be back on this post because the amount of stupid things being said just boggles my mind and disheartens my soul.

    Tracy,

    First of all, I have a problem with people that are unable to express their dissenting views without disrespect. Your opinion is yours, but why the belittling statements?

    Your words, "Anyway, I don't know if I'll be back on this post because the amount of stupid things being said just boggles my mind and disheartens my soul."

    Can we not interchange ideas without the demeaning tone of ignorance? If you don't want to come back to the blog........fine. We have survived without you thus far, that is your choice alone. But, everyone on this blog communicates their thoughts with a dignified manner of conversation that is pleasant. If you disagree, you disagree, but in my opinion your website proves that he had numerous plastic surgeries. The fact that there is not a picture of him with bandages and swelling proves that no plastic surgery occurred? Really?

    MJ was a very wealthy man, I feel pretty confident that he and his security team could arrive covertly at his home after surgery without being photographed. That task would be childs play for anybody.

    Your words, "He had vitiligo and lupus, something that you apparently know nothing about,"

    Be very careful Tracy when speaking of something YOU know nothing about! My youngest sister has both vitiligo and lupus. Her vitiligo is very evident on her legs, she is also an African-American individual and as of yet, she has not turned all white.

    Also people don't just age into squared jaw lines, extended eye area and a total change of race (I believe MJ had vitiligo, but that did not lighten his skin to that degree all over his body evenly). Even during his autopsy the doctor remarked that his skin all over his body was white like a t-shirt, he said, it's the most incredible thing I've ever seen and he does autopsies for a living, not real difficult to figure this out. His brother that grew up with him, Jermaine Jackson, said in his recording 'Word to the Badd'

    Reconstructed
    Been abducted
    Don’t know who you are......

    Once you were made
    You changed your shade
    Was your color wrong?
    Could not turn back
    It’s a known fact
    You were too far gone....

    And I'm sure JJ was angry with Michael about something, justified or not, but there is still information there. Those are my thoughts and reasons why, not to dishearten your soul or anything, just expressing my opinion in a logical, respectful and intelligent manner.

    On the other hand, if he was using female hormones all his life, would't he have had enlarged breasts?

    HI Bonnie,
    I am sorry, I could not relocate the link that shows MJ with his handlers and him talking to the fans.
    Somewhere out there lost in thousands of MJ videos now. I used to keep links written down, but
    it became overwhelming.
    Yes, your suspicions about the facial hair are correct. My brother-in-law had a hair transplant (on his
    head) with hair taken from another part of his body, and it eventually blended in with his scalp hair,
    but for the first few months, you could tell the difference of the transplanted hair.
    Did you watch Oprah...the part where she asked about his abuse from Joe? During the commentary,
    Oprah said he had told her more but she wouldn't share it with the viewers. While I doubt he actually
    told her anything this personal, there was "something" in his eyes and the way he described when
    his loneliness started around adolescence that again, indicated more....
    My teenage niece was watching the Oprah interview with me, and whenever MJ would giggle,
    she would start giggling too. She isn't aware of this castrati theory, so I just quietly observed her reaction.
    Oddly, when the show was over, she did ask me...Was Michael Jackson sexually abused by his father?!!!

    Michael Jackson had discoid lupus.
    If extensive hair transplants were an option for him, don't you think he would have started with transplanting hair to cover the bald spots on his head he had thanks to Pepsi? I think this would be the more obvious choice, instead of transplanting hundreds of thousands of hairstubbles to his chin and throat. Because we're not just talking about a couple of stubbles above the upper lip and around the mouth here:
    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tmz.com/media/2009/09/0625_mj_getty_2257139_e...

    The person singing on the alleged Riggs training videos does not have anything close to a four octave range, nor does he sound anything like MJ. I don't believe these recordings are MJ.

    And, if MJ had four octaves, which four were they? Maybe he could go a lot higher than what we normally heard.

    "Vocal range: 3.6+ octaves (E2-B5; 44 notes by the middle of 1980s according to Seth Riggs, Jackson's vocal consultant (Quote from Seth Riggs); in the 1990s, Riggs said the range expanded to 4 octaves. Apparently, due to aging, Jackson got few additional lower notes, while not losing the highest ones.)"
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_vocal_range_of_michael_jackson
    Google is your friend.

    No offense intended but I honestly feel the arguments are getting more absurd with every post here. First it is claimed that he has no or next to no facial hair; when that is proven wrong, it is argued that he transplanted a couple of hundredthousand stubbles from his groin area onto his chin, despite he had discoid lupus and he didn't transplant any hair on his scalp to cover the blank spots. First it is argued that he never speaks in a deeper voice; when that is proven wrong, it is argued that in the counter-examples he is hoarse/it is someone else singing/ he is straining his voice. Then it's being argued that when he cautioned Macauley in a high voice this proves that this is his real voice because he was frightened of fire. Don't you realise how crazy that sounds? You're grasping at straws to defend a untenable theory.

    If it's so crazy and the arguments are so absurd and such a waste of time, then why are you still here??? Repeatedly, I've heard "frustrated," "won't be returning to this blog," "flat earth society," what do you suppose keeps you interested enough to return even though it's totally unbelievable? Could it be that you are not sure? Here's a mindbender for you what if it's true?

    I looked again at the video of 1992 in Bucharest and at the beginning they actually show someone down on stage singing out the lower sounding screams.

    I also looked again at the1994 video at the NAACP as compared with the 2006 video with Beyonce -- and the home movie documentary. I conclude that his speaking voice did sound a bit different with time, especially somewhat hoarser and lower, but I still say it was never really low.

    I want to add that I personally am a female soprano with a trained voice. I am over 50, but I sat down at the piano today and could still sing the C below middle C and could still sort of squeak out the C two octaves above middle C -- even without warmup. When I was younger, before I was trained, I used to think I was an alto, because I could sing those lower notes and -- without training -- I thought they felt easier; however, when I went to a voice teacher, she explained to me that a true soprano or a true tenor is a trained voice, a voice that, once trained will have more power in the higher notes. She turned out to be correct. My most powerful notes are right around the C one octave above middle C -- when I use my diaphragm and breath control properly. This means I am a soprano.

    When I listen to Michael Jackson, the power and natural center of his voice sound high to me. The lower sounds are more difficult for him -- and I feel empathetically based on my own experience that his struggle not to sound like a boy when he speaks is actually hurting his throat.

    I have also reviewed some videos of his brother Jermaine singing. Jermaine has a fabulous tenor voice -- really fabulous. The most famous operatic tenors have absolutely nothing on him. His is a voice to die for.

    And yet he pales next to Michael. Why? It's not just because Michael's voice is higher. It is something about the quality of Michael: the angelic smile with the eyes that sparkle with innocence; the fluid, kinetic, floating dancing -- in short the total absence of the gravity and stiffness that come with adulthood, the beauty of the child. No matter what other performer you look at, no matter how exquisitely they sing or how athletically they dance, or how beautiful their smiles are -- they cannot touch him, because they have the gravity of adults and Michael floats above.

    It is this childlike quality of his voice, his movement, and the fantasies in his videos that make him magical, unearthly. As he says in "Thriller," "I am different."

    And it is that childlike, angelic quality that made me absolutely persuaded from the first time I saw "Thriller" (which was only a few weeks ago, since, as an operatic/folk type singer I had amazingly never bothered to investiage Michael's adul tmusic before that -- difficult as it is to believe) that he was a castrato.

    I had always been horrified at the idea that boys were once castrated to preserve their voices. Watching Michael now, watching the crowds of hundreds of thousands of people transported by him, those historical Italians seem less despicable to me. The opportunity for a boy to become an angel rather than an adult man was so wonderful as to be worth the horrendous act that gave rise to it, at least in the eyes of many parents.

    Michael even said that his father made him who he was. I suppose it might have been a difficult thing to contemplate that possibly such a monstrous act could have been justified. And yet I see the hundreds of thousands of hysterical women, fainting and being carried out over the heads of the crowd, and I am persuaded that nothing on God's earth happens by accident.

    And I cannot look at the home movies of Michael Jackson opening super soaker after super soaker, the sheer joy in his face, the joy of a child getting his favorite toys, and think that this is an adult man with testosterone. I simply can't.

    Are you familiar with the group DeBarge? DeBarge was a black family singing group from the Midwest, big in the eighties along with the Jacksons. In fact, Janet Jackson's first husband was James DeBarge, whom she eloped with when she was a teenager.
    But the lead singer of the family was the fabulous El DeBarge. El DeBarge had a voice far more angelic than Michael Jackson's, absolutely other worldly. And he had an even slighter build and more feminine face. Here's DeBarge singing one of their biggest hits, I Like It.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpiLtAQIFTg - 103k - Cached
    Towards the end, El DeBarge effortlessly soars to a powerful high C repeatedly. If any contemporary singer could be described as a modern castrato, it's El DeBarge.
    Except for the fact that he's fathered eleven children. Looks, voices, and mannerisms can be deceiving.

    I'll be curious how you'll be dealing with this:
    http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/michael-jackson-had-deep-voice-2998862

    Just another "imposter", I guess.

    Wow Guys,

    I've been out of town for a few days, out of reach of t.v and internet and I get back eeeearly this morning and the blog has blown up! Even new people have joined in :) Welcome!

    Anonymous, I have watched you slowly over time figure this thing out. You seem to have a lot musical knowledge/background. You're right, it is so much more than just the voice, it's the childlike quality, the depression, the sadness, the fluid dance movements, the freshness (whose fresher than a child), the secretiveness of his closest friends (except for Dick Gregory, who came right out with it), his brothers lyrics in "Word to the Badd" (Jermaine also put out on the line with, "I know you're still a child")

    All of MJs friends are always talking about what a "torturous life" he lead and how people shouldn't try to find out what "it was" that made him so damaged. Deepak Chopra even came out and said, now that he's dead his friends will form a circle around him and try to keep his secrets and perserve his legacy. What is so awful that they are hiding? What's worse than the drug use that is readily admitted by them all? The beatings by the father? MJ told of the beatings himself, many times, so what is so secret that made him so depressed and tortured? If you look at him you can see depression on his face, it makes me feel really bad for him, the difference in him as a child, then look at him as a man, in that interim something happen, maybe we'll never find out what, but we know that something awful happened? This video was really interesting and kind of sad:

    (the video is in the middle of the page) (just copy the url and put it in you search engine and you'll get there)

    http://blog.beliefnet.com/pontifications/2009/06/michael-jackson-torture...

    On this one you can actually see depression on his face, In the making of "Stranger In Moscow"

    http://www.smashbeats.com/v71740/michael_jackson_making_of_stranger_in_m...

    Hfarmer
    Blow up.  This one posting has practically become a mini blog within the larger framework on this website all by itself!  I stand by every word I wrote.  But really I never expected all of this. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Well Hontas, you did a good job! What can I say, we are talking about Michael Jackson, everything his name is attached to is "big" :)

    The person who sang "Thriller," and who spoke in the videos regarding the making of "Thriller" had a spectacularly clear boy singing and speaking voice -- not a falsetto, not strained. This was when Michael was approximately 25 years old. Similarly, the person who spoke to the NAACP in 1994 spoke with the clear, high voice of a boy, not a woman, not a falsetto.

    The person who sings in the video "Ghosts" in 1997 has a deep voice with a bad falsetto. The person who narrates the allegedly private home movies of Michael Jackson speaks in a voice that is clearly straining to hide its true pitch. This narrator also has a face that looks substantially different from the face on the private movies. The same is true of the person who accepts the Diamond awards in 2006 -- same clearly false voice straining to hide its true pitch -- not clear whether straining to hide a high voice or straining to hide a low voice -- also different from the 1994 NAACP face and the private home movies face (which also are not clearly the same person). The narrator of the private home movies appears to be the same face as the person who accepts the 2006 Diamond award and also the same *face* as the person who sings "childhood," though not so clearly the same voice.

    Interestingly, also, the person who appears in the videos regarding the making of Thriller, interacting with the director and cast, speaks with expressions that are clearly "Black English," African American Dialect. The person who appears in the 1994 video and the person who narrates the private home movies does not speak with African American Dialect.

    Were all these people Michael Jackson? Or were some of them "doubles?" If they were all Michael Jackson, his voice changed some time in his 30's -- possibly due to hormones, possibly taken in response to allegations of child abuse. Moreover, he learned Standard American English with an impressive, sophisticated vocabulary, including words like "subliminal" rather than "aching & paining."

    I suspect that at some point he realized that being a case of "arrested development," as the examining psychiatrist stated during the criminal investigation, was dangerous -- that he did not have enough judgment without adult brain development to conform his behavior to societal expectations of an adult. Consequently, he took hormones and became and adult some time in his 30's.

    If this is correct, I would assume that he did not develop the large brow ridges, jaw bones and cheek bones, that we see in the faces of Jermaine & Joe Jackson, because presumably his growth plates had hardened and would not develop in response to administration of hormones. As a result, his eyes stayed larger and his smile stayed broader, more feminine looking and hence more attractive, than those features as seen on his male relatives. However his soft tissues, such as larynx and cheeks were affected by the hormones. Also, his demeanor changed and lost its childlike, floppy, glowing, angelic nature.

    I watched the movie "Ghosts" in its full length version on youtube and thought it absolutely fabulous, despite the deep voice, possibly even bass singing. Sadly, I don't think that movie had anything like the success of "Thriller," even though it is arguably a better video. It appears that all highly successful soloists, both in pop music and in opera, have higher voices. Plus there is something decidedly sophisticated and adult about "Ghosts," while "Thriller" has a simplicity and childlike quality.

    The singing voice of the castrato is possibly only marginally higher than the voice of a very good tenor -- but there are other differences. First, the speaking voice is very different for a castrato -- different both from a woman and from a man. But also the childlike quality of the castrato facial bone structure, way of moving, and even creative imagination seem to have a draw on the minds of the public that overwhelms us even now -- just as it did the Italians in the 18th & 19th centuries. We might want to ask ourselves why we are so enamored of high voices.

    It might be interesting to know if there are other features of the castrato brain that could be useful. For instance, children learn foreign languages more easily than adults -- and learn complex fact structures and patterns more readily than adults. The people during the making of "Thriller" were astounded at how quicly Michael learned new dances despite lack of formal training. I even wonder if castrati might be useful for some military or espionage purposes because of cognitive differences between a child brain and an adult brain.

    Still, I do not know for sure that all the people who appear in these videos are the same person. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. There is one post on here that seems to indicate that doubles did appear for Michael at times. How many times? Where? Was the deep voiced person who later appeared (ironic if Michael would become a bass, when his brother(s) was or were tenors) Michael? Don't know.

    I do feel confident, though, that the person who appeared in Thriller and the person who appeared in 1994 before the NAACP was not faking a high voice.

    Well, I went back and watched "Ghost" again and this time it sounded most of the time like someone singing high. It's like these videos sound different every time I listen to them, but if you listen to the 30th reunion videos he sure sounds different from his brothers -- and looks a whole lot less healthy.

    Saida, you are wasting your time. You have done an excellent job showing how weak the evidence is of his being castrated, but people are still desperate to believe because they can't comprehend his weirdness otherwise. It is a well known fact that he was emotionally, physically, and possibly sexually abused continually at a young age, which is enough to make anybody depressed and emotionally stunted, you don't have to be castrated to be childlike and miserable.

    Here is Michael speaking with his deep voice at James Brown's funeral. His voice is certainly not hoarse here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISc2D4TCHgc
    Here is his brother Jermaine giving a public statement on Michael's death.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEkAOx_Fis8
    Michael's voice is deeper than Jermaine's, does that mean Jermaine was also castrated? This might come as a surprise to his eight children!

    Anyways, it is quite clear that Blanket resembles Michael considerably and that he is probably Michael's only biological child.
    http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/BLANKETJACKSONJNR.jpg
    But I'm sure some folks will argue that he just used a sperm donor that looked like him or, worse, that castratis are also capable of fathering children!

    Zoot,

    No one that supports the castrato theory on this blog has said that a castrato is capable of fathering children, where did that come from? That's been said 50 times over, that Michael Jackson has no testosterone, we've been saying all along that he could not have fathered those children. That's what having no testosterone means---no sperm. That has been said again and again. And as far as the comment about they will argue, he used a sperm donor that looked like him--- I don't even think the boy looks like him at all. Before all the surgery and the skin lightening Michael Jackson looked like a black man. This may be a surprise, but his genetic makeup would not change because of plastic surgery and skin lightening, his children would probably have some hint, at the very least of African-American looks, or skin color, even if the mom was 'other'. The boy shows none IMO.

    As far as anybody wasting their time--we're just throwing some ideas on the table and checking them for validity, nobody has to change anybody elses mind about it, we each have our reasons for believing what we believe. It's not an emotional exchange, it's debate and discussion and we participate until we don't want to participate, nobody can waste your time but you. Chow

    .

    I pulled up that video from your link, MJ's voice does not sound deep at James Brown video, granted it does not sound lie a soprano or anything, but I would not call that a deep voice. Jermaine's voice sounds deeper, even though he is soft spoken. And absolutely no one even hinted that Jermaine was a castrato, that is ridiculous.

    To all,

    I wanted to add one last special thought for tonight:

    When all men think alike, no one thinks very much – Lippman

    xoxoxo
    Goodnight

    Bonnie,

    The castrati fathering children and Jermaine being a castrato comments were meant to be sarcastic. Since it was misinterpreted so easily, I won't employ any sarcasm in this post.

    I'm quite aware that Michael Jackson was black, which is why I showed pictures of Blanket compared to Michael when he still had his African American features and not in his later years. I thought that was obvious. Frankly, with the exception of the hair, I think Blanket looks a lot like Michael. The fact that we disagree on this shows that we cannot say they are or aren't his children based on how we think they look. Just like I cannot definitively say Blanket is Michael Jackson's child because I think he looks like him, others cannot say Jackson's children aren't biologically his because they think his children don't look like him.

    Although Michael Jackson doesn't sound like Barry White, his voice sounded like a grown man's to me. A lot of people in this debate are using his soft, public whisper as evidence as to why he might be a castrato, which is why I included the clip as to negate that.

    Anyways, people will see what they want to see and ignore everything else. This goes for either side of the debate. I do feel the evidence used to show Michael Jackson was a castrato was weak at best and easily shot down. I could be mistaken, but it seems like the people who believe he was castrated are hanging it on the fact that he was sad, secretive, and somewhat effeminate and childlike. Which is ignoring the fact that repeated abuse at a young age, without castration, can also lead to similar behavior. One is perfectly in their rights to believe whatever they want, but that doesn't mean others can't point out how absurd it is.

    Zoot,
    I know, that's why I've given up on this discussion. Sometimes people get so caught up in the weirdest theories, no evidence whatsoever will convince them of the contrary. A look at conspiracy theories will tell you all you need to know. To this day there are people who "scientifically" argue the earth is flat. At some point you have to realise you're wasting your time. But thanks for your support.

    Let the man-balls or no balls- rest in peace. Please. This is so beyond anything. You are a quantum gravity transexual? Do the absence of balls give you a more nuanced sense of gravity? Big deal. W. Pauli married a whore. So?

    Hontas, you are really onto something. I agree with you. And I will tell you what seems to allude a lot of people for some reason. Something was definitely done to Michael Jackson before he reached puberty, and it was told to him that it was something innocent and would only keep his voice just as he would want it for always, so that he would be that superstar. Michael was too young to understand it. Whatever was done to him messed with his emotional stability, which is why he was sad, depressed and cried at things that adults usually don’t go through unless there is a serious psychological problem. Michael was very aware of his psychological and emotional state. Michael never blamed his father specifically for this. I don’t think he wanted to tell exactly who did it. I was under the impression that it was not his father, and for some reason, Michael was afraid for his father to find out that someone had done something to him.

    After becoming an adult, he researched it as best he could in medical encyclopedias and books. He wanted to reverse it, and may have secretly been taking something (from doctors) to get his voice to start deepening as it would have had the procedures not been done on him before his voice deepened much naturally. Michael intended to stop singing and dancing in concerts and concentrate on producing movies.

    Michael always had voice trainers which is one of the reasons why he would never lose his professional singing voice, his gift. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX2T67jx_lg. Even before he decided to try to get his puberty and manhood back, he could exercise his voice in a range of octaves, high and low.

    It doesn’t matter if Michael is not the biological father of any of his children. The children are legally his, so he is their father, their only father.

    Lisa Marie Presley is not telling the truth, claiming to have had a sex life with Michael. Why she would lie, who knows? At their wedding ceremony, Michael doesn’t seem like he takes that too seriously either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luhQcB_2iX4.

    The people around Michael, namely his managers and handlers, as well as some other powerful groups of people, wanted to control his life and who he associated with. Michael always liked me. He was forbidden from contacting me any further, and I was told by these people that I “talked too much”. They have an extreme amount of clout and power and have the ability to affect people’s jobs and finances, as well as the ability to perpetrate slander against a person. Michael was also aware of these people and was basically afraid of them. He feared for his life from them because he knew they had the capacity to be killers if they couldn’t get their way with him. In the end, Michael was fed up with them and had decided to take his life back from them, and talk as much as he wanted to about the way he had been treated by them. He was extremely angry about the false molesting allegations and his trial. He was also angry about what he felt was slander against his character and mockery against his dignity. He was tired of people stealing his money.

    A lot of people want to claim that his last doctor was just a mistaken incompetent. That is false - Michael Jackson was deliberately murdered to keep him quiet and because he refused to go along with those people any further. They coordinated for Michael to meet the Dr. Murray and knew he would be it. People would be more inclined to believe that a black doctor rather than a white doctor, would be so stupid and mistaken in medical treatment. It was Joe Jackson that demanded that they take Michael to the hospital. Michael knew they were killing him and was screaming for his father, Joe Jackson. Whatever people may say, or Michael has said, it was always his father that he went to for support in times of trouble. The time that all this had happened makes me think that Michael was screaming and crying for his father sometime during the night rather than in the morning or afternoon, but the people just called his father in the late morning or afternoon, after they knew very well that Michael had already passed away. It is strange that numerous needle marks were only reported to have been on Michael Jackson’s body after he was deceased, and not when he had medical checkups or when he was with his family several weeks before his passing. The conspiracy of people that killed Michael Jackson makes me very alarmed at how cold they could be. And they will, for the most part, get away with it. They have too much power and clout not to. Murray is just their fall guy and he will find that out soon enough, if he hasn’t realized it already. He thought he was one of them, but he will never be one of them. And yes, it just so happens that these men with the clout and power are all white men. And I dare not say who I suspect they are. And some I’m sure I wouldn’t even think I know about. Not because I’m so scared of them, but because it will serve no purpose to have men with such power and clout bothering me further to the extent they would if I said anything. And they have the ability to make people believe whatever they say, no matter how ridiculous, wrong or out of character to a person.

    Michael has wanted to be friends with me for the past 35 years. After all these years, I had intended to finally go to Michael, but was too late. I never got there because of the interference of those same people, sometimes very sublime, sometimes very overt. They broke me financially, or rather prevented me from continuing to earn the same money I was making in my career. I’ve had to change careers several times. In an effort to prepare to help Michael, I took nursing courses. Now I see that it would have been a disaster had I not been prevented from going to Michael. I have heard that the doctor is trying to blame Michael’s overdose on someone other than himself - an aide possibly. I would have been that aide had I been able to get to California. And he would have been believed because no one would think a doctor would do to Michael Jackson what he did. I am quite upset at what has happened, but there is absolutely nothing I can do. I have no power or clout like that. Michael knew of my financial problems and would have helped me start a new business when I got to California. I would have helped him in any way that I could. I did not know that things were that bad or that his situation was maybe an emergency and that something really bad was going to happen. And I even think that some people didn’t know that I wouldn’t be able to make it to California, that I would be in the hospital five times instead. I think perhaps that’s why Murray is trying to blame it on an “aide”. That could have been their plan to blame it on me. That thought irks me because I know I have no clout or power to be able to fight that sort of thing if it would have happened that way.

    I think that it’s terrible that Michael Jackson and his great talent has been silenced. That his music lives on does not change the fact that Michael is not here anymore.

    I do have questions, however. About three months before Michael died, some Jehovah’s Witnesses kept coming to my new apartment while I was at work, leaving sticky notes all on my door. I asked my immediate neighbors about them and was baffled when they told me that the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t go to their doors at all. They came to my door twice while I was home, before the sticky notes started happening. I threw the notes away because I wasn’t really interested in going to any Kingdom Hall, anywhere. I am always polite to people and respectful, so I just figured at the time that the Jehovah’s Witnesses had gone to my neighbor’s doors in the past, but maybe the neighbors were rude to them or something, which made them avoid them afterwards. Now I wish I had called the phone number that was on the sticky notes. The notes seemed urgent, but I had no reason to think anything of it. And I never thought that it could be relevant to Michael Jackson, as he dropped out of or was dropped from the Jehovah’s Witnesses years ago, around the time of his Thriller album.

    I do not think Michael Jackson was anywhere close to being a soprano or mezzo-soprano. He has trained with Seth Riggs for the last 30 or so years and used his 'head voice' to reach for high notes. Unlike falsetto, head voice can be bridged with the regular chest voice. It is not unusual for a tenor to be able to reach G# with a head voice. This is more or less one octave lower than what most sopranos do effortlessly. Belcanto tenors used the same technique. It is not true that Michael Jackon's voice did not slide one actave down from soprano to tenor during puberty. He was certainly a tenor and relied on the head register instead of falsetto (which is impossible to join with the chest register) to reach high notes. I can reach G#5 with the head voice, though my chest register ends somewhere around G#4. When I was a kid and was a soprano, I could reach G#6 more or less which is exaclty one octave higher compared to what I can do now. No castration happened to me, and I have two kids. Please, look into speach-level singing (Seth Riggs) for more information on how tenors can do easily E5-G#5 instead of C5 we all are accustomed to.
    http://www.amazon.com/Singing-Stars-Complete-Program-Training/dp/0882845...

    Michael Jackson's voice did not go two octaves higher above middle C. The highest I can remember from the top of my head would be F#5 ("hee-hee" sounds in Who is It). Any soprano can sing C6 and some go to F6 on stage. YouTube clip with Michael Jackson's rehearsal with Seth Riggs show exaclty how he does it going to F5 and there is no magic about it. Good training and lots of work and certainly no castration or female hormones.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX2T67jx_lg

    This article was well researched and very well written; you make a compelling case. Michael was so uncomfortable about sex and I read somewhere that during his 2005 trial his lawyer made the statement that it was 'physically impossible' for him to have molested this boy. That has always made me think that maybe he was impotent?

    Given that the accusations were about fondling and one witness mentioned oral sex, impotence wouldn't have hindered him. So I doubt Mesereau meant that.

    Wow..to the Anonymous that knew MJ since he was 15 years of age. Much of your narrative
    is off topic, but if you really did know him personally for 35 years...what has he shared with you?
    What did he share about his emotions, feelings, handlers, ect. that could help provide some insight.

    Oh, btw, I don't see any posts on this forum discussing MJ being weird. I think the consensus is that
    he was a very unique, interesting, fascinating, multi-talented individual.

    I am a female soprano and I can sing and speak in low tones. I think Michael was terrified of anyone discovering his true nature and was skilled at creating an illusion that would cause people to think they had heard him speaking in a male voice. Sometimes he injected low tones, or, as in Ghosts, had someone else sing a low note, and then sang in a lower register, to create the illusion that one was hearing a tenor voice rather than an alto voice. He was certainly a highly skilled performer and knew how to manipulate his medium.

    If you look at this video, though, which may have someone else singing, but shows many pictures of his smile -- you can see over and over again that his facial structure is just not that of an adult male with testosterone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q02DUWr4js&feature=fvw

    The wide eyes and broad smile, which come from lack of bony structure around brows, cheek and jaw, give a child-like, angelic appearance that most adults mostly do not have. If you look at pictures of any of his relatives, none of them have this angelic smile, especially not the males.

    The castrato voice is not necessarily one of different range, but certainly of different quality and different natural center.

    But, though his dancing was athletic, it was also clearly different from that of other men. If you look at him dancing with his brothers at the 30th reunion or with Chris Tucker, you can see a phenomenal difference in how he carried himself.

    I also notice that he frequently rubs the area just below his nose when performing, presumably because the result of multiple nose surgeries makes him either embarassed or physically uncomfortable. Similarly, the crotch grabbing, which he says in one interview is "subliminal" may be because of physical or emotional discomfort.

    Also if you look at the 2005 interview with Geraldo Rivera, Michael has a distinctive floppy, effeminate appearance. He says that this is his normal personality.

    All of this is not to take away from his substantial genius: the incredibly prolific production of creative material of astoundingly high quality -- but it was the creative genius of a child prodigy.

    His turning to his abuser for support and advice is very consistent with the behavior of many abused people, constantly going back to the source of the problem. It's called Stockholm Syndrome.

    This being a "scientific" blogging site, I think the challenge here is to start thinking about the neurological implications of hormones. I have become convinced that those historical Italians, who got up to castrating 4,000 boys a year at one point, surely had discovered something very important about what those boys became, which continued to get them to do this procedure that seems so inhuman. Similarly, we feel that fixed pets have some advantages when we keep them in our homes.

    From a scientific point of view, all of this bears investigation. Scientific investigation is blocked by the substantial emotions and prejudices involved. Would Michael Jackson be any less a genius if he lacked testosterone? Would his works be any less entertaining? NO! Certainly, not.

    There is just a lot of prejudice about maleness -- machismo -- involved here. A lot of that same prejudice has a lot to do with our world situation: wars and violence, for instance, instinctive male behaviors.

    Why would someone like Michael have to go to such great lengths to have to hide who he is? That is bigotry -- not racial bigotry -- but hormonal bigotry.

    Anonymous,

    You are so right!!! I never noticed before, but when you look at his face, it's like looking at a child's face. All the playfulness, enthusiasim and innocence is right there in his face, it is like looking at a boy inside of a man's body. That fresh look in his face isn't because of plastic surgery, it's the look of a castrato. I mean, if you take out a major hormone from the body, it has to have some effects.

    It reminds of times when I was in college physiology lab experiments, we would perform surgery on white rats and cause some endocrine hormone to not be secreted and we'd have to observe the changes in the rat. Sometime the change would be patchy hair loss or extreme redness around the eye. This was a way for us to observe the function of certain glands and hormonal influence in the human body. If you take something away as significant as testosterone, you would have to see many different outcomes, because as far as hormones go, testosterone is a major player. The loss of it probably has many effects both physical and emotional. And MJ did seem like there was a child inside of him, everybody that knew him constantly states how he loved to play with children. I guess it was because he was one.... His story is such a tragedy. Jehovah was his God at one time, I hope that MJ will be resurrected and given another chance. Only Jehovah can decide.

    and it doesn't occur to you that that's what drove all the plastic surgery?

    to be the plastic peter pan

    The following quote appears in a September 25th article from CNN about the upcoming Boteach book. Boteach quotes MJ as saying about his father

    "He was rough, the way he would beat you, you know, was hard," Jackson said. "He would make you strip nude first. He would oil you down. It would be a whole ritual. He would oil you down so when the flip of an ironing cord hit you, you know, and, it was just like me dying, and you had whips all over your face, your back, everywhere. And I always hear my mother like, 'No, Joe, you're gonna kill him. You're gonna kill him. No.' And I would just give up, like there was nothing I could do. And I hated him for it. Hated him."

    You will notice that he says his father beat him "everywhere," meaning that a testicular injury could easily have happened.

    Anonymous,

    I know he hit him with an ironing cord, but a testicular injury would have to be something very hard, like maybe a blow against a wooden cabinet or something? The human body is very resilient, you are not easily going to stop all testosterone with just a whipping cord. There has been lots of beatings of kids and not very many end up as hormonal issues. I think that one is "a reach"

    Here's the funny thing though, Michael recalls all these beatings and with such severity, but the rest of them(The Jacksons) seem not to have experienced it to the same extremes. They make it sound like they had a mean and strict father that would whip them, maybe a little too much, but Michael's version of discipline sounds incredibly different, far more severe??? I'm just sayin, it seems odd.....

    All over the Internet are stories about New MJ tapes, from his Rabbi, friend Schmuley, that is doing this to set the record straight for Michael's legacy, so that he will be judged differently. Since he was so close to MJ at one time, you know his new book, backed up mind you, with MJ's recorded voice on tape, is going to sell like 'firecrackers.'

    So what do think you guys?: Is Schmuuuuuley a FRIEND? Or An OPPORTUNIST?

    On the Schmuley tapes, MJ sounded like a wounded child.
    Schmuley doesn't bother me one way or the other simply because there wasn't anything new
    on the tapes.
    I am GLAD he went public with the tapes...MJ got to tell it again in his own words.
    The only thing I felt the tapes did was reinforce what everyone who knew MJ has said, either directly or
    indirectly, that MJ was a boy/man and that he was lonely.
    NO adult woman's love was going to help or save him. He had needed extensive counseling and
    therapy which he didn't get.

    Becca,

    You're right, what women could take all that on. I'm sure Michael was impossible to deal with in a relationship. Lisa Marie Pressley seem to indicate that he would consume you. She said she had to leave, because she was on the verge of losing herself. And that loneliness was a constant theme throughout his music. I mean he got to the point where he put it in almost every song, it just seems that he was crying for someone to help. It just seems like everybody he came in to contact with was a user. Because of MJs child-like innocence he never seemed to know when to back away from opportunist. Case in point, that Arvizo family that tryied to get money from him with the huge court case after the Bashir interview. Those people were obviously greedy and out to get him. Every other celebrity saw it and got far away from them, but Michael was so generous and open, and they saw that and tried to cash in. He really needed someone to just look after him, he made some poor decisions that really cost him.

    So, I guess there will be lots more of the MJ tapes, Schmuley said he had 30 hours of recorded MJ tapes, his book is going to 'kill'

    According to the autopsy report the AP obtained, Jackson was relatively healthy and "actively producing sperm."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091001/ap_en_ce/us_michael_jackson_autopsy

    I thought all of you would find the autopsy report on Michael that was revealed today interesting which puts our debate to rest:

    "The coroner also found Jackson was actively producing sperm."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091001/ap_on_re_us/us_michael_jackson_autopsy

    No mention of castration at all.

    Now that the autopsy was released we have found out that he was not a castrato, his body was producing sperm.   So what explains his high singing voice? The man was just unique, he had gifts that were unexplainable along with this oddness. We'll never see another performer like him, ever.
    It seems to me that if a person were subjected to some kind of genital mutilation at the hands of a non-professional -- or someone who was merely abusive -- the result might be partial. The victim might continue to produce some sperm -- and might, conceivably, undergo some kind of slow motion maturation, with a voice graduatlly getting lower over decades & body and facial hair appearing rather late.

    Also, when I read this blog, there are two autopsy descriptions that are wildly different, which I find puzzling.

    This from the ET site.

    The Associated Press reported Thursday that the news outlet had reviewed a copy of the Los Angeles County Coroner's autopsy report, and it revealed that Jackson was relatively healthy. ET contacted the Coroner's office, and they released the following statement, "No copies of the Coroner report have been released to anyone other than LAPD and the DA per their request."

    http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/10/79278/index.html

    Notice that they didn't say that the report was false though.

    No, they didn't say it's false but the accuracy is doubtful, at least for part of the information. The height and weight figures given are not in accordance with previous police records. And there is doubt about the "healthy"part.
    Visit here: http://www.this-is-not-it.com/

    You know it was really strange for that autopsy to say, "The coroner also found Jackson was actively producing sperm. " Here is a very, very thorough copy of Anna Nicole's autopsy, not once did it mention that are her eggs are being produced normally?

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0326071anna8.html

    Also, when MJ first died, the original doctor that did his autopsy, said he was completely bald and that his skin all over his body was white like a T-shirt. He said it was the most incredible thing he had ever seen. This AP version of an autopsy report says he was going bald in the front and the rest of his hair was described as tightly curled. Which is it?

    I guess if it was my brother or son, I would go to any length to hide his shortcomings too. I'm afraid we will never know. I just enjoyed his music and dancing and I miss him and I will have to leave it at that.

    Bonnie,

    A woman doesn't produce eggs over her lifetime. Women are born with a lifetime supply of eggs. I don't mean to argue with you here, as there is no way for me to verify the accuracy of the autopsy report. But, it's not right to hint that the Jackosn family would go all the way to fabricate the autopsy report obtained by the Associated Press. As far as I know, the report is used by the LAPD to build a criminal case against Dr. Murray. So, the Jackson family should have no involvement in the way the autopsy turned out. If so, there is a serious fault in the American criminal justice system.

    This just further shows how much scrutiny MIchael Jackson had to live through. Even in death, people still scrutinize everything related to him. Is there any other individual's autopsy, with every single detail, being reported all around the world? Is it an invasion of privacy for the press to show the world every single scar he had on his body? Let's step into his shoes, do we want to have every single biological details of ours to be made known to the whole world... This is insane.

    People judge him. People ridicule him. People speculate about him. He needed to be a very strong person to live through all those unbelievable cruelties.

    Bonnie, I too enjoy his music and I truly believe he's an extraordinary talented person. May the world will one day stop discussing about his so called "eccentricities" and focus on his musical mastepieces. I believe his singing and dancing abilities were given to him by God, not a result of any unspeakable human interventions.

    I find that supposed report suspicious for another reason. I've seen the pics of MJ during the last weeks or months prior to his death and I find it very hard to believe that this is man with BMI 20.1. 20.1 is in the normal range, and MJ looked grossly underweight.

    There are other people who have an interest in reporting that he was healthy besides the Jackson family. Funny how these news appeared just when concerns about MJ's health during the rehearsals became louder due to the human nature clip, and the tickets went on sale. Remember, it was the Jackson family who voiced concerns over the film showing not the true picture of MJ's condition. So far, the report is still unconfirmed and I've yet to see a person (rather than unnamed "AP journalists" or "sources") come out and say they have actually *seen* this report - let alone the fact that still no scan of the pages quoted has appeared anywhere. Every search warrant was on the nets within hours after it leaked.

    My son is 5'9" and weighs about 135 or so. He is 16 years old and a *very* scawny teenager -- looks really tiny -- but he is not dangerously emaciated.

    Bonnie,

    A woman doesn't produce eggs over her lifetime. Women are born with a lifetime supply of eggs. I don't mean to argue with you here, as there is no way for me to verify the accuracy of the autopsy report. But, it's not right to hint that the Jackosn family would go all the way to fabricate the autopsy report obtained by the Associated Press. As far as I know, the report is used by the LAPD to build a criminal case against Dr. Murray. So, the Jackson family should have no involvement in the way the autopsy turned out. If so, there is a serious fault in the American criminal justice system.

    This just further shows how much scrutiny MIchael Jackson had to live through. Even in death, people still scrutinize everything related to him. Is there any other individual's autopsy, with every single detail, being reported all around the world? Is it an invasion of privacy for the press to show the world every single scar he had on his body? Let's step into his shoes, do we want to have every single biological details of ours to be made known to the whole world... This is insane.

    People judge him. People ridicule him. People speculate about him. He needed to be a very strong person to live through all those unbelievable cruelties.

    Bonnie, I too enjoy his music and I truly believe he's an extraordinary talented person. May the world will one day stop discussing about his so called "eccentricities" and focus on his musical mastepieces. I believe his singing and dancing abilities were given to him by God, not a result of any unspeakable human interventions.

    I'm not really familiar how an autospy goes, but I have heard they check EVERYTHING, so checking his sperm is not unusual at all, so I have heard! The report probably contains a lot more and this was probably just a short line in it about him producing sperm, it's just the press who found it important to emphasize it, probably because of media speculations about it in the past. Just like on this blog.

    As for the autopsy by the "original doctor" who said he was completely bald etc. - it was a tabloid article by The Sun which was denied by the coroner's office right away!

    I went to this website and reviewed the articles. I did not find one questioning the accuracy of the autopsy report or stating that it had not been released.

    The LAPD themselves said it hasn't been released. Suzy posted the link above. Of course the articles don't question the autopsy report; they were written *before* the news about the autopsy appeared.

    Sorry, it was Becca who posted it. "No copies of the Coroner report have been released to anyone other than LAPD and the DA per their request." They also denied any further comment due to the ongoing investigation.
    http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/10/79278/index.html

    Height and weight in police reports are not always accurate. They just ask the person and write it down if it seems close enough. I never once believed that Michael was ever 5'11. He was always a solid 5'9, even in his prime. 136 pounds is still on the low end for that height. People who were worked with him before his death, such as Frank Dileo, believed he was in good health.

    I'm sure the autopsy was used as part of the grand jury proceedings for Dr. Murray and probably leaked from that. Although the Associated Press is not perfect, it is a pretty reliable and accurate news source. I doubt they would have reported this if they did not find this credible. The report was also reviewed by a reputable doctor such as Zeev Kain, who seems to have found it believable. I doubt he would have allowed his name to be connected to something that he thought was fake.

    Although this is an interesting article, I don't think the writter is being objective. I read most of the comments above. Many people have already pointed out evidence that Michael didn't take any female hormone therapy. So, I'm not going to repeat. I just want to point out that he did have a deeper speaking voice. Please youtube his Superbowl performance in 1993 and listen to his speech before he sang Heal The World. He did have body hair. Please take a look to the October 2009 Vanity Fair Cover. You can clearly see his arms were hairy. He even told people himself that he didn't know what female hormone pills look like and he's a natrual tenor. I don't bebelive he was physically or chemically castrated at all.

    Shall we stop over-analysing Michael Jackson? Could we simply acknowledge that he's a genius, he's extremely talented, extremely dedicated and extremely hard-working. will.i.am, a music producer who worked with Michael in recent years, said Michael would warm up his voice for three hours for singing five minutes. Michael would test his voice for hours before finding the perfect pitch. The ability to sing in high notes is a result of God-given talent and his hard effort, not a result of castration. It seems that many people have tendency to come up with strange theories about Michael to bring him down, to bring him closer to regular people because common people just have hard time in comprehending his unbelievable talents. If Mozart was alive these days, people would have labeled him weird. Mozart also had very boyish demenor. May be being child like was the reason why both Mozat and Michael were so creative. Of course, Michael Jackson was different from regular people. It is because he was a prodigy. He was a genius. He's someone that will leave a mark in Histroy.

    Finally, I just want to ask people be more thoughtful when leaving comments. Assuming that Joe Jackson did those horrible things to young Michael can be very hurtful. I understand everyone of us is entitled to our opinion and I appreciate freedom of speech as much as you do. But, words can be very cruel. Michael Jackson was destroyed by the people around him that used him, the media that fabricated stories to bring him down and the general public that ridiculed and judged him. Many people think Michael was self-destructive and wasted his talents. I believe it's the contrary. Michael knew that God gave him extraordinary ability to sing and dance and he felt grateful. Therefore, he tried hard to improve his crafts continuously. He was a perfectionist. People who worked with him have nothing but good to say about him. Vince Paterson, choreograper of Smooth Criminal, said Michael would spent hours in the dancing studio to perfect one dance step. Bruce Swedien, sound mixing engineer, said Michael never came late for a recording session and that he would spend the night before to memorize the lyrics so he didn't sing with lyrics in front of him. Don't you notice his singing voice has not changed throughout the years?

    I apologize for my writing. I know it's not well written at all. I'm still very emotional about Michael's death. I'm still very angry about how disrespectful and trashy the media is.

    I looked at the Superbowl video on youtube. Michael Jackson's performance clearly begins after takng the microphone from another man who was speaking in a deeper voice.

    From a 1981 interview with the Jacksons. Just sort of odd and this so early in MJ's career.

    http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=10&p=6668&more=1&c=1

    Asperger's Syndrome???

    He's not a castrati, his autopsy said that his body was producing sperm. Also, there was no mention of a prosthetic nose. The media lied on Michael for over 30 years.

    Type in on youtube: Crazy Fan (You Are Not Alone-Michael Jackson) in Munich. Must watch. His manhood is ALIVE in this one. LOL.

    Youtube is not letting me copy links now. Type in on youtube: Crazy Fan! (You are not Alone-Michael Jackson) in Munich. The girl literally puts her head on his crotch and tries to hug him. She realizes what happens and backs off. You can guess what happened next. Enjoy.

    Check out this you tube video of "Smooth Criminal" Live in Munich, Germany. The best video ever of MJ in his gold pants. He also looks like he weighed around 160 lbs here, he was totally buff. Gorgeous man, he was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdA8caEKtkI
    Watch the above video, you won't be disappointed.
    There is no way in hell that this man was ever castrated. That high pitched speaking voice was an act (probably to seem less threatening to his white girl fans who loved him madly). What other black entertainer had white girls fainting for him? Answer, none. He had appeal for white and black fans, he looked and sounded non-threatening but when he sings, he sounds like a black man singing with a lot of soul. He dances like a black man, I never saw another man who moves like this man when he's dancing. Also a man who dances like that obviously has hormones driving him to dance sexy like that. A eunich would not dance sexy like he did. No way. Check out his dancing when he was in his 20's, and early 30's he was hot to trot.. For some reason which is unknown he had a gift of being able to hit extremely high notes as well as sing low at times. He was a true gift from God.

    Check out this you tube video of "Smooth Criminal" Live in Munich, Germany. The best video ever of MJ in his gold pants. He also looks like he weighed around 160 lbs here, he was totally buff. Gorgeous man, he was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdA8caEKtkI
    Watch the above video, you won't be disappointed.
    There is no way in hell that this man was ever castrated. That high pitched speaking voice was an act (probably to seem less threatening to his white girl fans who loved him madly). What other black entertainer had white girls fainting for him? Answer, none. He had appeal for white and black fans, he looked and sounded non-threatening but when he sings, he sounds like a black man singing with a lot of soul. He dances like a black man, I never saw another man who moves like this man when he's dancing. Also a man who dances like that obviously has hormones driving him to dance sexy like that. A eunich would not dance sexy like he did. No way. Check out his dancing when he was in his 20's, and early 30's he was hot to trot.. For some reason which is unknown he had a gift of being able to hit extremely high notes as well as sing low at times. He was a true gift from God.

    Sorry my above post came up twice.

    Fascinating to read through all the comments on this blog! Poor Michael. He's a bit like Chauncey Gardener in Being There - people want him to fit the narrative in their head, regardless of the reality.
    Michael Jackson had a very buff male body, albeit a thin one. His stage costumes revealed he was unusually well-endowed. His stage performances, when he was hugged by female fans, revealed that he had no trouble achieving an erection, even in front of thousands of people. He had a beard and mustache when he didn't shave. Body hair? Most black men don't have body hair, and plenty of men who do wax it off their chests.
    Brooke Shields and Tatum O'Neal made nice arm candy, but the true love of his life was Diana Ross, and there is a persistent rumor, and some evidence (he told people) that he gifted her with his virginity when he was quite young, just a teenager. Go to Youtube and check out the many videos with the two of them. He's absolutely besotted with the woman. That is supposedly the reason why Diana and Mrs. Jackson don't get along. Whatever his other relationships, he remained in love with Diana his entire life.
    Another rumor: the great secret he talks about on the tapes with "Glenda" is that he fathered a son out of wedlock, long before his other children were born. Sounds farfetched, but a young man has come forward claiming Michael Jackson is his father, and he wants a DNA test to confirm it. His name - Prince Michael Jackson, just like the other boys. And he has the birth certificate to prove it. (And please, no nonsense about it being easy to fake a birth certificate. It isn't.)
    Besides Omer Bhatti, MJ's putative one-night-stand son, (the one seated in the first row at the memorial with the family who's apparently living with the Jacksons in Encino) there's also an internet rumor that MJ is the father of Diana Ross' youngest son. While that seems unlikely, the young man does bear an uncanny resemblance to Michael Jackson, and has been known to joke about it himself.
    Lisa Marie has been quoted as saying that MJ was "amazing" in bed, and there's no reason to doubt her word. The woman had been around the block, and who would know better than she? They apparently kept having sex for several years after the divorce. (Unless you think Lisa Marie went traipsing around the world with him because she loved the conversation.) In fact, Nicolas Cage has said that his short-lived marriage to Lisa Marie ended because she wasn't over MJ. As for their not having children, don't forget the racial element: it's one thing to be married to the King of Pop - it's quite another to give birth to Joe Jackson's half-black grandchildren. (Lisa Marie had no way of knowing that MJ's kids would turn out to be so light-skinned.)
    And yes, those are Michael Jackson's children. It's not unusual for black Americans with white spouses to have children that look white. Quincy Jones has seven kids and six of them look white. Especially since the Jackson family has a mix of black, white, and Native American ancestry. The youngest boy is practically a clone of MJ, with lighter skin and longer hair. Paris looks just like her mother, but her blue-green eyes are the same color as Joe Jackson's. And there is a sad confirmation that the oldest boy is Michael's - he has vitiligo, too.
    MJ was something of a romantic, and it's sad that he didn't find and stay married to a woman who was his true soul mate (Diana was already taken). But according to his former security men, he was in a long-term sexual relationship with his kids' nanny, the woman they call "Mom".
    Finally, there was nothing that unusual about his singing voice. Singing in that high register is a feature of "urban" music. I don't think there's a blog discussing whether Frankie Valli, Smokey Robinson, or Robin Thicke have been castrated, and all of them sing as high or higher than Michael Jackson ever did.
    So where do these stories of the strange creature known as Michael Jackson come from? He himself said that when he began breaking Elvis' record sales, and having white girls fall out for him, the media began calling him weird, or suggesting that he was gay.
    We've come a long way in the US in race relations, but a black man of the power and achievement of Michael Jackson makes the establishment uneasy, and there has been a concerted effort to emasculate him. If they couldn't do it to his body, then by golly they were going to do it to his image. For a lot of you, they seem to have succeeded.
    Bottom line, Michael Jackson was NOT a castrato.

    Anonymous of 10/16/09,

    To what do you owe your expertise, you have very definate opinions, anything to back it up? On the Glenda tapes, she and Michael speak of him still being a virgin. So how could he gift Diana Ross with his virginity? Glenda said, "My dear you're pushing 34" So unless Diana Ross had his baby after that year, he could not be the father. The whole idea is funny, he had a crush on her when he was a little boy. Glenda and MJ talked about that too on the tapes. It was MJ's own voice, everybody heard it on this blog, then they took it down.

    MJ caused quite a few of the rumors himself, intentionally I suppose. He came up with the hyperbaric chamber and the kiddy voices he spoke in. He just went too far, all the rumors cannot be blamed on "white establishment." I'm an African-American myself and I'm all too familiar with what the white establishment can do, but MJ has quite a bit of blame going here. All the different faces and surgeries and surgery masks, what media could leave that alone? "Most black men don't have body hair?" Again you speak with such authority to be so completely wrong? I've seen 40 years worth of black men and they all had body hair, I don't think they're from Mars. There will be plenty of rumors and sons coming out, MJ was extremely famous and he will be talked about for some time. Omar said himself that MJ was not his dad. Michael's father got himself on T.V. talking about he dances like a Jackson, sings like a Jackson, etc. His father knows the truth, whatever that truth is, Joe Jackson knows it.

    Michael did have body hair. I've seen pics where you can clearly see hair on his arms and a couple of shirtless pics where his pubic hair is apparent. I agree that Michael had a masculine body even if he was very thin. He had broad shoulders, no hips, prominent cheekbones and adam's apple, square chin, and a well defined jaw line. He even had a six pack. MJ may have acted feminine, but he was built like a man. Definitely no castrato.

    Hi, Bonnie. As to my opinions or my expertise, I get them the same place you do. For example, the tapes. Glenda and MJ don't say anything specific about virginity. The other Jackson siblings married quite young, and MJ seemed to be feeling that life was passing him by.
    A number of bloggers using sensitive earphones have concluded that Glenda says "Michael, have you ever told Kathy about your son?" And now a young man with the name Prince Michael Jackson claims that he is that son, and has filed a claim against the estate. People who know him say that over the years, he has always maintained that MJ was his father, and this was long before anyone knew that MJ would name his eventual sons after his grandfather Prince Scruse. Now this could all be an elaborate lie, or a spectacular coincidence, but MIchael Jackson having sex and fathering a son is a lot more credible than the notion of Michael Jackson the castrato.
    I grew up in the heyday of Motown, when the idea that MJ lost his virginity to Diana Ross was commonly believed and talked about. And MJ told others that that's what went down - P. Diddy recently spilled the beans. On the Glenda tapes, MJ says it took him YEARS to get over Diana. I don't think he ever did. MJ himself affirms his life-long love for her in his book Moonwalk - "I've always loved Diana, and always will." And then there's the matter of including her in his will as a possible guardian of his much-loved children. That was passion, not a puppy-love crush.
    While I don't believe that Michael Jackson is the father of Diana Ross' youngest son, other people do. Absent a DNA test, their belief is just as valid as your belief that it's impossible. MJ was close to Evan Ross; he was his godfather, and he helped him with his music. MJ was a consummate music professional. I can't think of any other tyro who got studio time with him. If MJ was the father, could Diana keep it a secret? She's done it before. Years after her eldest daughter's birth, Miss Ross revealed that Berry Gordy was the actual father, and not the man she was married to at the time.
    In the movie Pride, which is about a real-life championship black swim team, the coach decides that part of the mystique of a winning team is the ritual shaving of the swimmers' bodies. So he starts doing it, even though his black swimmers don't have body hair. I haven't seen every black man in the world. But even a casual observer can see that black men generally are not as hairy as white men. MJ's smooth body is no more indicative of castrato status than Barack Obama's. (BTW, one of the swimmers in Pride is played by Evan Ross.)
    I agree with you completely that, through naivete and even stupidity, MJ allowed his public image to get out of his control. But it's not like he's the only eccentric celebrity in existence. As for the changes in his appearance, and his face masks, don't forget that the man suffered from major illnesses. He was severely burned. Lupus attacked his skin, and he had to be careful about germs. He had no control over the vitiligo that destroyed the pigment in his skin. And while his plastic surgery was undeniable, as he himself said, plastic surgery wasn't made just for Michael Jackson.
    At their recent deaths, the media was nothing but loving and respectful toward Farrah Fawcett and Patrick Swayze. There was not one word about Farrah's appearance on the David Letterman show a couple of years ago, when she was obviously under the influence of some kind mind-altering substance, to the audience's great amusement. Patrick Swayze was drunk as a skunk when he crash-landed his plane in a field, and attempted to conceal the alcohol he had on board. But at his death, properly, not a word about it. Michael Jackson was not treated like other celebrities, in life or in death. His every peccadillo was magnified and analyzed, endlessly, by the tabloid press. And sometimes they just flat out lied about him.
    I don't know about Omer, but he's been accepted into the inner circle by the Jackson family. There have been pictures on the internet of Prince, Paris, Blanket and other Jackson children on outings, and Omer is right there with them. So he must mean something to them.
    As for the white establishment attacking MJ, that's not just my belief. It was MJ's. He says so on the tapes he made with Shmuley Boteach. "I was the first one to break the ice, break the mould, where white girls, Scottish girls, Irish girls are screaming, ‘I’m in love with you, I want to…’”And… the white press, they didn’t like that, and that’s why they started the stories –’He’s weird, he’s gay, he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber, he wants to buy the Elephant Man’s bones.’ “Anything that turned people against me. They tried their hardest.”
    You may chalk it up to paranoia on MJ's part, but in the immortal words of Malcolm X, you're not paranoid if they ARE out to get you. And "they" were out to get Michael Jackson. They still are.

    Poor Michael! People have been so unfair too him. Is he the only celebrity who had plastic surgeries? Of course not. But, how come there is nobody dissing Marilyn Monore's breast implat, or Jennifer Aniston's nose job, or Nicole Kidman's botox, etc... May be people really feel threaten by and jealous of Michael's extraordinary talents. No one before him or after him could come close to what he achieved. So, people have to make negative comments to bring him down - to bring such gifted genius closer to regular people.

    Reading the above posts, I see a few bloggers believe Joe Jackson gave Michael female hormone pills in order for Michael to maintain his high pitch voice. How could this be possible? In case you don't know, Michael suffered very bad acnes during his teenager years. Michael admitted himself that his bad acnes messed up his personality. He became very shy because he's very conscious about his pimple face. If he was given female hormones in his early teenager years, he would not have to suffer such bad acnes. The female hormones should suppress testosterone (one of the cause of acnes). He should have smooth skin instead.

    As for his so-called feminine behavior, I never think Michael Jackson acted "girly". Just because he's soft-spoken, kind, considerate, polite and sensitive, he's not a man????? Huh????? To me the qualities that Michael had are what make a guy manly. Michael was a GENTLEMAN... Michael was angelic because of his pure soul, not because of the lack of testosterone.

    And, please stop bringing up his mask and his skin color, Michael had lupus and vitiligo. He could not control his skin disease. I can understand why he had to wear mask in public - to cover his white patches. Michael was a perfectionist. That's why he was very demanding on himself. Also, he was very conscious about his appearance. Those teenager years caused lasting damage to his self-esteem. He just would not show up in public without some cover-up if he thought he's not "presentable".

    I watched the complete 1993 Oprah interview, Michael was very calm and polite throughout the interview, except when Ms. Winfrey asked him about his skin color. I could see tears in his eyes when he explained he had a skin disease. One could tell he was really really upset about his vitiligo. I just cannot imagine how he could survive such a horrible skin condition for so long. Michael Jackson, being the biggest star in the world, being the most well-known man in the world, being a self-conscious perfectionist, had such deforming skin condition. Can you imagine how much pain, both emotional and physical, he suffered. Instead of showing him support, the media and the public ridiculed him and spreaded rumors that he didn't want to be black.

    I am not a blogger. I am not a writer (in fact I hate to write). But, I really feel the urge to respond here because some of the posts are outrageous and ridiculous. I admit I was not a Michael Jackson fan. I am too young to know about Jackson 5. The first Michael Jackson song I knew was Black or White. I miss the whole Thriller mania. I fell victim of media sensationism. But, I was so amazed by the reactions people on his passing. The world almost stop the moment people learned about his timely death. So, I started researching more about Michael Jackson. The more I learn about him, the more I love him. We may never see another brilliant and beautiful human being again. Michael Jackson was one in a billion. Shall we stop speculating and start respecting his legacy?

    Susie and Annie,

    No, Michael J. is not the only entertainer that had plastic surgery, but the media had to say something about it, his face changed 10 times, are you kidding me? Do you think that anybody, black, white or blue, would get a pass when one day their jaw is square, then in a year their eyes magically widen and in 6 more months, their lips are pink and the nose points up? A public person to me still has a right to privacy, because they still need to have those bad days when they just want to go to Starbucks and get Latte and see a movie alone, but honey that is not the way the game is played for real. Michael wanted tremendous fame and he got. My grandmother always used to tell me, "Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it!" I'm not saying all the things that happened to him were right, but tremendous fame usually kills the individual. Look at Princess Diana, tremendous fame, lots of emotional pain, then death. That's pretty much how it goes.

    I agree with you that he doesn't seem very girly, just seems to lack self-confidence off stage and suffers from shyness or a lack of maturity or something, I don;t know what to call it, he just doesn't seem to be a grown up. But "poor Michael, he was an angel, because his soul was pure": Are you kidding me??? Michael was not an angel, he was a normal person. Just a man, not the son of god, not an angel, A MAN that sings and dances very well, extremely good at his craft, a perfectionist, but all this' idol worship' I am no part of. He is no higher than anyone else, just well known and very interesting. You or one of the other girls mention, Schmuley Boteach, he knew Michael very well according to himself, he even spoke about him not being a person that whitewashing Michael's sins, he said, Michael Jackson is no angel. Michael was a normal person with flaws, problems and inconsistencies like everybody else. Lisa Pressley, even noted in her interviews that when he used his power to do good it was very good, but when he used it to do bad it was very bad. This person MJ is not immortal or superhuman, just a man trying to make his way through life the best he knew how, somethings went well and others went terribly wrong, he was not a god, we know that because he died. If he was a god he would resurrect himself or get his father to do it.

    Also, virtiligo did not turn him all white, it doesn't work like that. His own brother even mentioned that he changed his shade, "was your color wrong?' Jermaine said in Word to the Badd, do you think he wasn't talking about Michael? Or didn't know what was going on with him? He grew up with the man, he was just mad at him. I know you're going to say "poor Michael, his brother was just jealous of him" but remember, jealous or not, he knew him. Many people have virtiligo and they have not changed to all white. Michael did not always tell the truth in his interviews, that's pretty clear by now. I enjoyed his music too, but I do not worship him, I feel for him, but don't feel that he was perfect. I'm sure some of those problems with his siblings were his fault too, rarely are things all one sided with all the blame on the other person, that's just life, we're all imperfect human beings, MJ included. I hope that I'm not angering anyone, I just felt that these things needed to be said, because they're true and need to be interjected into this conversation.

    It was confirmed by two medical professionals during the 1993 accusations, one of them a doctor appointedby the prosecution, that MJ had vitiligo. These people testified subject to penalty of perjury. Since then two more of his doctors have confirmed the diagnosis. In the past three months, there were press reports about three people who have vitiligo and turned exactly as white as MJ.

    Bonnie,

    I didn't suggest Michael Jackson was an "angel" or "son of God". I was reponding to some of the previous comments. Some people suggested that Michael had "angelic" smile because he's still a "boy". I just want to express my opinon that some of the perceived "angelic" qualities of Michael were from his soul, instead of some hormone pills. I didn't suggest Michael Jackson is immortal. I meant the musical masterpiece Michael created are immortal. I don't "worship" him. I am an admirer of his art. One can say he's not a role model, but one cannot deny the fact that he was a great artist. I believe I am able to separate the man and his music. Unfortunately, not that many people can separate the man and his works. If so, people won't spend so much time discussing and joking about his surgeries.

    I believe we are all aware of MIchael's weakness. As talented as he was, he's also only an human being. We all know that. He needed love and support just like us. Please listen to "Will You Be There" from his "Dangerous" album. He expressed that he's an human being and he's vulnerable. If he's without any fault, he would still be living and sharing his talents in London today. The point I and some other bloggers want to make is that the media and some people just like to magnify his faults and weakness. Why people never condemn Elvis' womanizing? Lennon's drug using? JFK's extra-marital affairs? Only Michael Jackson received such magnitude of continuous negative media attack. It's simply not fair. Tabloid sensationalism over the years can really brainwash people. Many of my friends still believe Michael Jackson was a "freak". Well, I too believe Michael was eccentric and had bad habits, but, please, he's far from a "nutjob". I don't blame my friends because they get their news from the so-called "trusted" media. They believe in what they are being told. I really had to do my own research to learn about the facts. American journalism is not educating people with facts regarding Michael Jackson.

    All of us also know what Michael said in interviews were not 100% true. Do you think everything coming out from President Obama's mouth or any other celebrity/politician/regalar people is true? People may lie a little to protect themselves. Anyway, why would we believe in Jermaine Jackson over Michael Jackson? I am as skeptical on what Jermaine said and what Lisa Marie said as what Michael said.

    Finally, what's so wrong with Michael changing his face 10 times? I change my hairstyle more than 10 times. I have more than 10 lipsticks. I have more than 10 eyeshadow color. I don't think anyone of us has the right to judge his surgeris. More importantly, as mentioned before, his surgeris become very irrelevant when comparing to his musical achievement. I truly believe future generations will remember Michael Jackson as a great artist. No one will remember him for his changes in appearance and his vitiligo. Speaking of his vitiligo, Bonnie, why don't you youtube a video about a girl interviewed by Anne Curry of the Today show? This girl suffered from vitiligo. Her dark skin turned completely white. See it. Then, you may change your mind regarding Michael's skin conditions.

    Even Jermaine, whose words Bonnie seems to take for gospel, confirmed that MJ had vitiligo a couple of years later on TV.

    Hey Everybody:

    Someone mentioned Deepak Chopra as not being for Michael Jackson, MJ considered him one of his dearest friends, along with Schmuley Boteach and Dick Gregory. These were his most trusted and closest confidants, I think they cared for him truly and would do many things for him, but, what could they do? MJ had his mind set on what he wanted and didn't want to hear anything against it (remember my nephew worked as a roadie for MJ for a short time while living in California) MJ does what MJ wants to do from what I hear.

    No, Saida, I don't take Jermaine's word as gospel, there may have been some sibling rivalry there, matter of fact, I'm fairly sure there was at least a little, with all those boys. But I come from a family of 7 children, and I know a little bit about how b ig families operate in America. My brothers and sisters say things about me sometimes that I don't like or agree with, but make no mistake about it, they KNOW ME, inside and out, they no everything about me, because we grew up together, we were close. I'm just saying that while Jermaine and Michael sometimes did not get along, Jermaine knows Michael thought pattern and spirit. Everything Jermaine says about MJ should not be dismissed, there is a deep well of knowledge there. I'll go a step further and say, I believe that Jermaine loved Michael dearly, I mean that was his brother, they had their differences, but I still see love in the equation along with hurt feelings and feelings of being left behind. Remember, Jermaine was talented in his own right, he was not a joke, he had talent, Michael would have shined over and created a big shadow in any group, anywhere. But, Jermaine knows of few things about his little brother. I really don't have a lot more to say about MJ, he's gone, he's a mystery and may always be that enigma that the public will never know. I'm okay with that, if he was castrato that doesn't change a thing for me, I still like him and I still like his music. If he was not a castrato, I would be happier still, and still a fan of his music and dancing. I don't wish him any harm what so ever.

    "If he was not a castrato, I would be happier still, and still a fan of his music and dancing."

    Bonnie - please allow yourself this happiness. This is a scientific blog, so it's apropos to have scientific proof to refute the theory put forth: Whatever the rumors or empirical evidence, the autopsy proved that Michael Jackson was a fully-functioning male, not a castrato.

    Poor Michael! People have been so unfair too him. Is he the only celebrity who had plastic surgeries? Of course not. But, how come there is nobody dissing Marilyn Monore's breast implat, or Jennifer Aniston's nose job, or Nicole Kidman's botox, etc... May be people really feel threaten by and jealous of Michael's extraordinary talents. No one before him or after him could come close to what he achieved. So, people have to make negative comments to bring him down - to bring such gifted genius closer to regular people.

    Reading the above posts, I see a few bloggers believe Joe Jackson gave Michael female hormone pills in order for Michael to maintain his high pitch voice. How could this be possible? In case you don't know, Michael suffered very bad acnes during his teenager years. Michael admitted himself that his bad acnes messed up his personality. He became very shy because he's very conscious about his pimple face. If he was given female hormones in his early teenager years, he would not have to suffer such bad acnes. The female hormones should suppress testosterone (one of the cause of acnes). He should have smooth skin instead.

    As for his so-called feminine behavior, I never think Michael Jackson acted "girly". Just because he's soft-spoken, kind, considerate, polite and sensitive, he's not a man????? Huh????? To me the qualities that Michael had are what make a guy manly. Michael was a GENTLEMAN... Michael was angelic because of his pure soul, not because of the lack of testosterone.

    And, please stop bringing up his mask and his skin color, Michael had lupus and vitiligo. He could not control his skin disease. I can understand why he had to wear mask in public - to cover his white patches. Michael was a perfectionist. That's why he was very demanding on himself. Also, he was very conscious about his appearance. Those teenager years caused lasting damage to his self-esteem. He just would not show up in public without some cover-up if he thought he's not "presentable".

    I watched the complete 1993 Oprah interview, Michael was very calm and polite throughout the interview, except when Ms. Winfrey asked him about his skin color. I could see tears in his eyes when he explained he had a skin disease. One could tell he was really really upset about his vitiligo. I just cannot imagine how he could survive such a horrible skin condition for so long. Michael Jackson, being the biggest star in the world, being the most well-known man in the world, being a self-conscious perfectionist, had such deforming skin condition. Can you imagine how much pain, both emotional and physical, he suffered. Instead of showing him support, the media and the public ridiculed him and spreaded rumors that he didn't want to be black.

    I am not a blogger. I am not a writer (in fact I hate to write). But, I really feel the urge to respond here because some of the posts are outrageous and ridiculous. I admit I was not a Michael Jackson fan. I am too young to know about Jackson 5. The first Michael Jackson song I knew was Black or White. I miss the whole Thriller mania. I fell victim of media sensationism. But, I was so amazed by the reactions people on his passing. The world almost stop the moment people learned about his timely death. So, I started researching more about Michael Jackson. The more I learn about him, the more I love him. We may never see another brilliant and beautiful human being again. Michael Jackson was one in a billion. Shall we stop speculating and start respecting his legacy?

    I apologize for the repetitive comments. Just some additional thoughts i have. Really, who cares to whom Michael lost his virginity to? Who cares how Michael's face and appearance changed throughout the years? To me, Michael Jackson is so much more. He continues to entertain us with his hundreds of beautiful songs and magical dance. He will be remembered as one of the GREATEST artist.

    When we read about Michaelangelo, do we question whether he was a virgin? I highly doubt. So, Michael's viginity and appearance become very irrelevant.

    Bonnie - Vitiligo manifests in different ways. According to the autopsy, Michael still had patches of pigmented skin, but of course he wasn't going to let the public see that. Google Lee Thomas. He's a newsman trying to cope with vitiligo while carrying on a broadcasting career. He covers the white patches on his face with dark makeup, but they're gradually taking over. This is what happened to MJ. I've known people with vitiligo who have turned completely white, but it took many years.
    " Michael was a normal person with flaws, problems and inconsistencies like everybody else."
    I think we're all aware of that. But so many seem to have an irrational need to insinuate that he was fatally-flawed, effeminate, less than. And anyone who objects to this characterization is seen as a hero-worshipping fanatic. The jealousy is palpable. Mozart had to put up with Salieri, but Salieri's got nothing on the Jermaines, Boteachs and Chopras of MJ's world.
    Al Sharpton was so right - there was nothing strange about MJ, it was strange what MJ had to go through. Like people, in the year 2009, seriously suggesting that this sexy, obviously masculine man had been castrated!

    I am pretty sure if the internet had been the main stream of communication during Elvis's or JFK's lifetime,
    there would have been the same public scrutiny that today's stars and individuals are receiving. The good
    and harm of the internet is not only limited to those in the public eye. Remember the cheerleader mom
    and her daughter? The young girl they trashed committed suicide.
    School kids can be vicious with each other on Myspace and Facebook.
    This is in reference to those who think only MJ suffered so much scrutiny.
    I am open to all facts concerning MJ. Remember, I was not so sure about this theory, yet there was "something"
    and rumors and gossip can play both sides. One of the anonymous posters shared some rumors about Diana
    Ross (not saying it was true or had some truth). When you hear information about someone and in this case
    going way back to the late 70's, maybe it clouds your opinion some. Notice I did not repeat WHAT I heard,
    as it would only be hearsay or rumor as well. As it is, MJ's life played out somewhat as to believe "something".
    And NO, it was not the media, NOT back then.
    So, I agree with Bonnie, I do not have much more to say and yes, I, too will always love Michael regardless--
    I have loved and supported him for 35 years. He was a GIFT to us all, and he continues to give with the music and memories.
    he left behind.

    A number of posts on here say that MJ had lupus, but if you go to the lupus website, they say this has not been confirmed. Also, according to the AP report on the autopsy, he was "healthy," which means no lupus -- so I'm not sure where this lupus stuff is coming from. How could a person with lupus be jumping around on the stage in concert doing all that athletic dancing for two hours straight?

    I agree that the obvious spotting and blotching all over Prince Michael's skin, which can be seen on the Huffington website, pretty much confirms that MJ's reproductive system was working -- though even now when I see some of his interviews I have a hard time believing he was not a castrato, because of the extremeness of his behavior.

    I would now attribute his freakishness to something more obvious: he was a genius. Neurological research increasingly is showing that flashes of genius come from atypical neurological operation. The person feels the inspiration or flash as if from nowhere. MJ himself spoke of feeling that he was an "instrument of nature" in the Oprah interview. And there is a much earlier "unauthorized" interview at Neverland on youtube where he states that he feels that his songs existed out there in the universe somewhere and that God was somehow channelling them through him. He also said the music told him how to move when he danced.

    While most people only get occasional flashes of genius, Michael was getting them all the time. He had hundreds of unreleased songs in various states of completion at the time of his death. He had an incredibly unusual number of top hits. He composed in music, dance, video, and new plastic surgery all at one time. He created his own percussion using beatboxing. He composed in an astounding variety of different genres. I even found one recently called "Little Suzy" that is unabashedly classical.

    He has been compared to Mozart -- though I wouldn't be surprised if he actually surpassed Mozart, given the larger variety of media he was working with.

    Given that his brain was largely devoted to these extraordinary flashes of genius, he could not be at all stated to be normal or neurotypical. The neural circuitry which might otherwise have been devoted to more mundane things such as social skills was likely pre-empted by this other activity. When he got up on stage, he was given over to his genius persona, but when he got off stage he seemed bewildered, befuddled, unsure what to do with himself.

    He also seemed somewhat unclear as to why people found him so strange. I saw one speech where he expressed surprise that people find him so strange, and attributes it to a love of childish things -- all the while he is moving in a very odd, effeminate way and wearing a feminine wig. In another interview he states that he is hurt at being called whacko jacko, still aparently oblivious to the fact that he is moving strangely and that keeping his hair (or sometimes sunglasses) over his eyes makes him seem antisocial.

    There is part of the video of the making of "Thriller," where they stop practicing the sequence where he is walking around the girl singing -- and he starts mysteriously running back and forth across the room, in a very autistic fashion. His Oprah interview -- and other videotaped interviews -- are sometimes characterized by striking lack of eye contact. Some people say that he is 'shy', but such lack of eye contact can also be indicative of possible autistic features.

    As a mother of children with Asperger's Syndrome, I have seen this sort of neurological condition in my own family. A hallmark of this condition is inability to discern how one's actions are likely to be seen by others. "What is wrong with sharing my bed with children?" he asks, clearly baffled by why others are disturbed. Poor prosody -- in other words poor intonation of speech (talking too high, too loud, too monotonically) -- is another hallmark -- as is lack of eye contact.

    There are only a finite number of cells in the brain. The largest single group is devoted to controlling the function of walking. With what is left, other functions have to be performed. Each person has areas of strengths and weaknesses. Some people are athletic. Some are social. Some are musical.

    It seems clear to me that when a truly extraordinary genius appears, we cannot expect him to be entirely normal. Look at what happened when Tom Cruise fired his experienced publicist and allowed his sister to take over. He ended up jumping up and down on Oprah's couch -- and offending Brooke Shields. Here is another genius who, without proper management, does not know how he will be perceived -- though clearly his case is less extreme than that of Michael Jackson.

    What is really concerning, I think, is the general lack of public understanding of genius. People who are geniuses are not going to be normal. Children who are geniuses are horribly bullied in school, by neurotypical kids who do not understand. Though MJ bemoaned his lack of a normal childhood, in all likelihood he was very fortunate he was sheltered from other children when small -- as they would probably have shredded him.

    When God sends us that rare true genius, we need to expect weirdness to come with it -- like Einstein's messy hair. We need to be grateful that some people are different from others.

    The above is very interesting, Anonymous.
    Maybe "that" is why in the early interview, to which I posted a link above, the interviewer got the impression that
    Michael was sheltered or protected. There were several of his early interviews where he had LaToya or
    Janet beside him-helping out and answering questions, why he would be seen shaking his legs back
    and forth, ect.
    It would certainly explain alot of the behavior and would it also explain the ease of which people seemed
    to manipulate and exert control over him?
    There is still that early interview that Debbie Rowe did where she claimed a sperm donor was used however.

    "There is still that early interview that Debbie Rowe did where she claimed a sperm donor was used however."

    That so-called interview was in a British tabloid. They simply make stuff up. Debbie Rowe has disavowed it.

    Can you provide the newer link where Debbie Rowe has disavowed it.
    I don't believe those children are MJ's biological children, regardless of the reason.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1888062/debbie_rowe_michael_jac...

    "Debbie says there was no prenuptial agreement, and no financial
    payoff for her carrying Jackson's child, which she says was conceived naturally."

    Radio interview with Debbie Rowe:
    http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/8589/deb.html
    Debbie Rowe simply does not talk to the media much. However according to Roger Friedman (showbiz411.com), who is her personal friend, she was incensed at the idea that anyone but Michael Jackson was the biological father of the children she bore for him. They're light-skinned, but Michael Jackson is the father of the children.

    Even if Michael used a different sperm donor, it does not mean he could not actively produce sperm on his own. Michael had vitiligo and lupus and thought of himself as ugly, so it would make sense that he might not want to use his own sperm to father children. I'm not saying those aren't his bio kids, only pointing out that he had good reasons to use a sperm donor other than being a secret castrato.

    Go to
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/07/michael-jacksons-kids-pri_n_227...
    Look closely at Prince Michael's skin on both his face and hands. Look at the blotches & spots. How can you say there was a sperm donor?

    Also look closely at Paris's skin. It is not all that light. It has a dark tinge to it -- and it's not a suntan.

    I was listening to an early interview last night that gives an important clue I think

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFA7oFC9mBo&feature=related

    In this interview, a male interviewer asks Michael questions and his sister Janet repeats them for him. Why?

    Might he have have had either an auditory processing problem or a sensory integration problem, possibly relating to lower sounds? Could he have developed a preference for children, because their high voices were easier for him to understand or listen to, because of a learning disability?

    Also, I note that the harmonies in his music tended to be descants rather than lower harmonies. Many other musicians tend to have the harmonies be lower. These higher harmonies make his music interesting and novel to listen to, but they might have reflected a neurological difference in him -- a preference for high sounds that is also reflected in his speaking style.

    In the Oprah interview, he indicates that he does not know his father. Could he have had more trouble understanding his father when he was younger because he had more difficulty understanding lower voices? Some of these types of learning disabilities can become muted with age, as people learn how to cope with them, and he certainly seems to be able to talk to male interviewers as he gets older.

    Also, if you look at this video, at about 1 min 40 s

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFA7oFC9mBo&feature=related

    Michael mysteriously runs back and forth after a run through. Why? This looks like autistic behavior to me.

    Also, there are many early interviews where he wears sunglasses or seems reluctant to have people see his eyes or make eye contact. Difficulties with eye contact can also indicate an autistic spectrum disorder or autistic features.

    This video also begins with an interview:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMmhIJWsIS4

    In this interview, he expresses lack of understanding of the world regarding him as weird -- all the while looking incredibly weird. Again, people with autistic features, while often being geniuses, are unable to understand how other people perceive them. He calls his behavior childlike, but others watching this perceive it as effeminate.

    Also, another symptom of autistic spectrum disorders is issues with prosodey -- the melody of speech, as mentioned above. Speech that is too high could be an indication of poor prosody.

    I would therefore suggest that autistic features could be part of the answer here.

    "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
    Amazing how people are able to project their interests and areas of expertise onto Michael Jackson, a person they did not know. At all. You can't diagnose someone based on a few seconds of audio or video tape. Given enough footage, and an editing bay, any person in the world can be made to appear "autistic", "weird", "altered" etc. Michael Jackson's image has been manipulated his entire life - sometimes by MJ himself, but more often by others with an agenda. Don't be naive. Seeing is not necessarily believing.

    "Both whetting and sating the public's appetite for every morsel about him, the press broke every rule of
    professional ethics..."They often ran with unverified stories, sometimes stories they had made up.."Reporters
    stalked him constantly-almost fatally on several occasions-making him their first human quarry, stripping him
    of his rights to privacy as no public figure had ever been before"
    "He instinctively knew that submitting himself to the idolatry of the public could strip him of his very identity: and the only
    preventive he could see was to maintain his privacy. That reluctance to offer himself to the public only increased its
    desire to possess him.."
    "The unwanted fame all but guaranteed an isolated adulthood."

    The above was written by A. Scott Berg and it was about.... Charles Lindbergh....from the biography "Lindbergh".

    For those that think only MJ had problems with the excess media attention and fanatical fans.

    I have been listening and listening to MJ material recently.

    When he played the scarecrow in "The Wiz," he was clearly straining to reach lower notes. He was about 23 at the time.

    Later, when he sang "Will you be there?" in his 30's, the lower notes came easily.

    Sometime when he was about 40, his face and neck became broader -- more mature looking -- but strangely awkward, possibly due to the delayed onset of the maturation process.

    It looks & sounds to me as if he had a delayed puberty, reaching it some time in his 30's -- and that the changes in his face that the press attributed to plastic surgery were caused by this slow motion puberty. He certainly always denied that he had had plastic surgery around his eyes or on his chin. The scars the autopsy found on his neck seem likely to have been due to a chin lift much later, after his neck became crapey in his 40's.

    Looking at his interview with Oprah, in 1993, it seemed to me that he was almost hoping she would ask more about the abuse so he could warn the fans that he expected his voice would change soon.

    I wonder if his song "Will You Be There?" was a question to the fans as to whether they were going to stick through this with him.

    His later videos, "Smooth Criminal," "In the Closet," "You Rock My World," are in fact more violent and more turbulent -- less childlike -- than his earlier videos -- just as his "Will You Be There" video predicts.

    Also he waited until his 30's to get married -- after stating in his Oprah interview that he had been married to his career -- but I wonder if he did not have confidence to get married until after his voice changed.

    Here are the Jacksons in one of their best performances, Blame It On the Boogie.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjW1iq4IO2k
    At this point, Michael was about nineteen. The song actually lies a bit high in MJ's voice and he has to strain for some of the notes, but it's a brilliant performance, young Michael at his best. Jermaine had left the group. The others are Jackie, Tito, Marlon, and Randy. This is before MJ was so tragically burned in the Pepsi incident, before the onset of vitiligo, before any plastic surgery.
    Tito is a bit huskier than the others, but Michael has exactly the same physique as his brothers. There is no delay of puberty. Although very slim, he is healthy, muscular, and stunningly beautiful.

    Look everyone, you people are scrutinizin him as if her was a lab rat. Michael Jackson was a normal, functioning man. His voice was not deep, so what, so was 1/2 of his brothers voices not deep. MJ hit puberty at a normal age and in a normal way like all other boys, he just had bad acne and had to do it infrom of the camera. There is nothing biological in trying to assess him, he just lived and unusual life under unusual circumstances and I think that his God given personality probably hindered him from being as outright and socialble as most people. I think that MJ was a shy, soft spoken, insecure, highly talented young man, who just passed away 4 months ago because he was an addict and he was given whatever he asked for because he had fame adn notoriety. Noone is talking about that, how celebrities are treated differently from normal society and we expect them to be normal I do not think so. I am on search of a forum discussing how we will never allow a Michael Jackson story to never happen again. How do we protect our child stars, how do we try and develop our childs talent but also while letting them remain children and do normal children things. Also, MJ was also playing a dangerous game with the media and the public, he always new how to control his own image and he had us all for a while then it backfired on him. In other words I think that MJ was a normal, hot blooded, heterosexual young man, but somewhere along the way he thought it to be cute to portray that Peter Pan sort of image, it unfortunately did not work. Also, for those on here who are talking about MJ and sex. I seriously doubt that Lisa Marie was his only sexual encounter, there are things in the internet that would beg to differ, I thnk that MJ new how to be private and keep his sex life private as it should have been. I think that as time goes on, we will realize that MJ was not as deep or complicated as we think. He was just a highly insecure black male, with enormous talent that put him right into orbit and he just never came down. Michael Jackson was a product of his own celebrity, his own fame. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I hate when people who are unfamiliar with Michael Jackson's body of work come up with theories based on those errors. Smooth Criminal came off the Bad album - 1987 - it's included in the movie Moonwalker. Will You Be There and Keep It In the Closet came off of Dangerous - 1991. All before the Oprah interview in 1993.

    It's pretty obvious you missed Dirty Diana and never saw him in concert or you would have seen a way more sexual performance than In the Closet as early as the Victory Tour.

    His tight face during the Invincible era - You Rock My World - was due to taking Lupus flare ups and the meds to treat them. The man had a masculine, square jawline since the late 70's - all this delayed puberty nonsense is ridiculous. He had 2 nose jobs and a cleft added to his chin, but his weight did fluctuate which made his bone structure more prominent - not to mention the difference in appearance caused by losing his pigment. He had those huge, wide spaced eyes since childhood.

    Anonymous of 10/22/09,

    Let me tell you, that you are doing some deep thinking. If it can be found out, I believe you can come up with the truth, whatever it is?

    The autopsy revealed that Michael was still producing sperm. He can't be a castrato.

    Some of the arguments in here are ridiculous. Interesting, but ridiculous. Nobody here has had a personal sit down with Michael. None of us have ever spoken with him, have been in his presence. All we go off of to "diagnose" him are interviews from youtube and hearsay. It's hilarious to me. We've only had glimpses at his life, we don't know how he acted when he wasn't in the public eye. From the videos I've seen, he's seemed so very normal (watch the Geraldo interview, listen to what his friends have said about him) and so very strange (Bashir documentary); sometimes he was quiet (usually the interviews where he's wearing shades), and other times he's happy and open (watch the Jet interview during the Bad Era, watch his home movies!). I doubt Michael's family even knows the real him; this is the most fascinating thing about him.

    Now, I don't think he was some sort of alien. I think he was more like us than we ever gave him credit for. People are hard to understand. Look at yourself, how much do you open up to others; do your family/friends know about how you're REALLY like? You probably have secrets, you probably have some habits that you never want anyone to know about. You may be a very kind person, but you could still get angry at those who hurt you. You could deal with your anger differently depending on your surroundings or the person that angered you. You think you're ugly, even though so many people have complimented you. You think you're beautiful, but lack the self-esteem in public to show off your beauty. You're introverted and shy around new people, but your friends know how fun you can be. You love to joke around with people, and it's hard for you to be serious, but deep inside you know how committed you are to the most important things in your life, even though no one ever takes you seriously. You try to tell the truth, but you've lied when you had to. You've made mistakes, you have regrets. In short, only you know the real you and its your choice alone how much of your true self you're willing to reveal to people.

    Because Michael's life was under a microscope all his life, these different facets of his personality had been magnified tenfold, and people became confused. Many people say he was a contradictory person, but aren't we all? Your opinions on everything always change! Would you still agree with your own opinions from 5 years ago? I know I wouldn't. Everyone remembers what Michael said 5 years ago, 15 years ago, since he was famous. They then compare him at these different ages and criticize him. No one is that consistent with their words and their actions. People change overtime according to their circumstances in life. Isn't this NORMAL? When did this become crazy or weird? Others say he lied about everything. Haven't we all lied? But our lies were never examined; those who we have lied to probably never found out that we lied. We lie as a defense mechanism, we lie to glorify ourselves, and most of the time we're telling the truth. We're all truthful people, but we lie. Michael is no different. Now imagine every action and misstep in your life was leveled with criticism and recorded in history. Do you know how you'd react to it? Celebrities are still people, and I've always noticed that the ones who can't handle the fame or make ONE mistake are never forgiven. Would we have forgiven that person if their name wasn't up in lights? He's not some reality TV star, he never asked for fame, singing was his life and fame was what came along with it. From what I can see, he was the only celebrity to avoid the media as much as possible. Never hosted anything, rarely gave interviews, covered himself in public. Looks to me like he never liked the celebrity glorification of his life either.

    The one thing I'm most certain of on Michael was that he needed love. Unconditional love, one that was romantic and one where there was friendship. He needed someone close to him to understand all those things about him that all of you guys have been speculating on. Don't we all need this...especially since he was abused as a child I believe he needed this more than others. Those that are abused as children often grow up to be murderers, wife beaters, mentally disturbed. Michael was none of these; if anything, he became an overtly sensitive and emotional person. Getting plastic surgery does not make him mentally disturbed, though it says something about his self-esteem and how he viewed himself. Loving all the things that children love is not a disease last I checked. He was selfish and kind, shy and open, had his weird habits and completely normal behavior, JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. Add in millions of dollars and the entire news media and that life suddenly becomes the longest running entertainment sideshow of our generation.

    Wow! This was the best accessment of Michael Jackson I have ever read from any expert, or non-expert.

    kupocchi - right on the money!

    If there was delayed puberty, how do you explain Michael's singing voice changing in the early/mid 70s?

    His voice was clearly breaking in this clip from 1973: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVcdx5je-o

    NO, SAYS JACKSON'S AUTOPSY DETAILS: His testicles were very much intact & he was actively producing sperm. Let me be the one to speculate for once: this does most certainly help explain a lot of things to me...

    I, too, have heard this about Michael Jackson since he was just a child himself--i am three years his senior. With me at 53 now, that made him 9 years old when i first heard it at 12 years of age. I have enormous respect & genuine affection for MJ, & have had, since the first time i saw him perform. It has always distressed me tremendously that the innuendos became even more disparaging & derogatory as time passed.

    Are we so insensitive that we can not even begin to fathom--much less try to understand--how comments, rumors & putdowns of this nature could have affected Michael as a CHILD, or ANY child for that matter? Is it so difficult to grasp the reasons for why he seemed so driven to try & maintain the few vestiges of childhood that he WAS able to preserve?

    The way Michael Jackson was treated by the media & other users while he was alive--& since, in some cases--is a disgrace & has left me even more despondent over his passing. This also helps to further extinguish my belief in humanity & dashes my hopes for our collective ability to accept others fpr who they are...Judging others by imposing unrealistic & unattainable standards is not my idea of acceptance.

    Furthermore, our failure to AT LEAST allow this man freedom of expression without condemnation speaks volumes about us as human beings & about this culture of ours that prides itself on protecting the rights of others.

    JCross

    I agree with you. How many rumors and how much negativity can a human being handle? I believe Michael was a very sensitive and emotional person so criticism must have affected him more. Building a paradise like Neverland was his escape from an imperfect world. Isn't this what we all wish we could have, an escape from reality? If we had the money he had, wouldn't we all build our own paradises?

    "Judging others by imposing unrealistic & unattainable standards is not my idea of acceptance."

    THIS. Your statement can also pertain to the original author of this article as well. A castrato? Really? Is it so difficult to believe that Michael was more like us and less a disturbed genius or mentally/physically handicapped? It's like we can't accept Michael unless we give him a psychological diagnose or deify him.

    Michael had problems in his life, but the media magnified his downs to a point where he became more an unidentifiable creature than a human being anymore. His life was so out there that all we could do was stare in and criticize, judge and diagnose; no one was able to put themselves in his shoes anymore. The majority of people never accepted him for who he was. He liked animals, wanted an amusement park in his backyard, and was in love with all things Disney and childlike. Was that so wrong? He wore masks and disguises when he went out in public. Didn't he have a right to? I've seen people at my school with crazier outfits. Was his obsession with childhood any less disturbing or normal than another's obsession with collecting Barbies or baseball cards? Another's obsession with their favorite football team? We focused so hard on his eccentricities that we failed to notice his obviously normal human behaviors and interests. Maybe if more people accepted him for who he was, or at least tried to understand the reasons why he did the things he did instead of just looking at what he did, he could have lived longer. The negativity must have got to him, especially during and after the 2005 trial, but he still managed to keep the will to live. He was still able to smile. This can tell a lot about how strong he was mentally.

    Michael Jackson said in a couple of interviews that he believed he was an instrument of nature. He had no other way to explain the phenomenal response he saw in audiences all over the globe.

    Certainly, nature marked him. Vitiligo removed his race, leaving him more pale than those who we call "white." Nature gave him a unique, ethereal voice -- and an unusual, oddly effeminate face. These last two could have been caused by a hormonal issue, as discussed in this blog.

    If so, this might have been relevant to his murder. He apparently told LaToya that he feared that we would be murdered over his share in the Sony Music business.

    Sex hormones *are* related to sleep -- especially progesterone (which men also produce in small quantities). If his body chemistry was substantially different from that of other men, that might have affected how he responsded to drugs. Drugs like demerol might have made him less drowsy than they might have made another person. Someone might have slipped him drugs that he would not have noticed, due to his body chemistry, because he might not have become drowsy -- and the combination might have made him die from the propofol.

    "Certainly, nature marked him. Vitiligo removed his race, leaving him more pale than those who we call "white." Nature gave him a unique, ethereal voice -- and an unusual, oddly effeminate face. These last two could have been caused by a hormonal issue, as discussed in this blog."

    Except of course that none of this is true. Vitiligo destroyed the pigment in his skin. It didn't make him white. And MJ did not have an ethereal voice - his singing was often quite rough and raw. And there was nothing effeminate about his face - he had a very strong jaw and a prominent Adam's apple.

    Please see This Is It. Besides being an exceptional documentary, it allows one and all to see that all this talk of Michael Jackson being so "different" is total nonsense. He was a tallish, muscular, albeit thin, man, with broad shoulders and narrow hips. His speaking voice was not high. He was direct and forceful in dealing with his artistic colleagues. He was in total command of his art, and as a perfectionist, he would not accept anything less than his personal vision of his work.

    The tragic emasculated castrato MJ is a figment of overwrought imagination. He simply never existed.

    Thank you. I was wondering if any of these pyschobabbling geniuses on this thread had bothered to see the movie and realize just how idiotic they sound on here. There are people on here who obviously haven't seen or heard anything remotely accurate about this man in decades.

    Preach it, bb. The emasculation of the world's most famous black man is more fascinating to me than any topic about his skin colour or sex life. The fact that Michael was visibly well hung just makes me wonder about the penis envy of certain types in the media...

    I completely afgree, MJ came up with this public persona, high voice, coming off as clueless sometimes, this was completely not him. But he let this persona get bigger than he was and when it was time for him to try and let the publcc see the real him, we did not want to see or hear of it, we had already formed and opinion of him and no matter what he did ir said towards the end of his life, conclusions were already drawn.

    If anyone thinks Michael Jackson was castrated, they must be blind!

    Its very unlikely that Michael Jackson was a castrati. First of all he suffered from bad acne during his teenage years, he also grew facial hair as he got older. Michael's vocal range was also differnt from castrati's, which were around soprano, mezzo-soprano, or contralto. Michael sang high tenor with a really strong Falsetto. Castrati's also have long joints and were usually plump, Michael was of average height (5'8''-5'10'') and was a fairly thin man.

    Hfarmer
    All of you talking about how accepting you are while calling people with gender or sexual differences handicapped etc. are hypocrites. 
    Calling Michael a Castrati is not an insult.  Comparing him to Farinelli is not an insult.  How many singers of 1700's itallian opera do we know of today?  Michael is like that.  He will never be matched or equaled just because he was so different.  

    By saying he was like every one else, then calling people with sexual and gender differences "handicapped" you actually insult him, and everyone else who has any gender or sexual difference, of any nature, what so ever. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    This is all about YOU and your issues with being transgendered yourself. You are projecting your own unresolved stuff onto MJ. The hypocrite is you!

    I like this quote I found posted on another website and it sums up my thoughts on this subject:

    "Geez. No wonder people can't see that Mike was as human as the rest of us. They're too busy treating him like a science experiment! He has this, no he does that so therefore he is this. Then when they give up trying to explain his human nature, then the "strange" and "Wacko Jackson" labels pop up.

    When these "experts" can finally admit that there was never anything wrong with him and stop treating him like his blood was green instead of red like the rest of us, I think he'd be able to rest in peace just a little bit more."

    Hi Hontas,
    You have written and very intelligent, Interesting, and thought-provoking article. I hope you don't mind but i have posted it on my website www.themichaeljacksonfiles.com, with full credit to yourself and links to your website.
    Regards,
    Polly

    Hfarmer
    I know it's been a while.. If you at least have a link back to here it's not skin off my nose.  Though I think perhaps my publisher may feel different. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Michael Jackson is certainly not the strange person everyone tries to make him out to be. I think this article is well-written and well-researched but the connection between Castrati and MJ is just too weak. His voice wasn't that high. His skin suffered from vitiligo. He suffered from lupus and likely overdosed himself in an attempt to stop the pain just for a moment. As his nurse asserted, he was pleading with her for the drugs that eventually took his life. People need to stop pushing MJ up onto a platform to make themselves feel better. He was a normal person like any other who had the misfortune of suffering from two such appearance-altering diseases. His voice isn't one of a kind. Listen to Jason Malachi or a ton of the MJ impersonators on Youtube. They all sound quite alike.

    I consider this hypothesis, all facts considered, to be nonsense. MJ was just an exceptional performer with an exceptional voice, and nothing more. For one, he certainly isn't the only person in his family that is soft-spoken - it is the same with Jermaine, Janet, even their mother Katherine, despite her age. Most of them obviously got their voice from her. Moreover, I have very little doubt his children are biologically his - Paris looks like her mother, Blanket is his splitting image and probably got his Indian look from him (both Joe and Katherine are Indian descendants - see Wikipedia), and Prince looks very much like the man he was named after, MJ's grandfather, as seen here: http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg254/belly_054/princegreatgrandfathe....
    As for their skin color, we can as well use the premise as a base to prove that Quincy Jones is not the father of his very-white looking daughters:
    http://www.wmagazine.com/images/fashion/2008/08/faar_kidada_01_h.jpg.
    http://streetbonersandtvcarnage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rashida-j...
    In addition, I'm glad someone mentioned the video of "Ghosts"...the mayor in that video played by MJ himself, FYI, and the voice he used there is strikingly different - difficult for a person with an irreversible high-pitched voice range to pull off and maintain.

    ....interesting read.

    Hontas, I think you are right.
    It occurred to me years ago that Jackson might be a castrato. I read Anne Rice's "Cry To Heaven", and her description of a castrato's physical appearance was pure MJ. O, those long long arms and big hands... I have wondered ever since how sound her description was.

    I find it curios that the fact of Michael's autopsy report saying he was activally producing sperm. That fact was included and highlighted because somebody wanted it maybe to lay to rest the speculation of the children not being his biologically. Someone earlier had brought up this point of Michael being injured in the groin are from a beating. There are a couple of stories out there of two beating from his father, one in the younger years where he was punched in that area and one story when that first solo album was released(the one with Ben) I think MJ was about 14 and supposidly his father was pissed about the album not doing well and lifted one of Michael's leg and kicked him in the groin and MIchael told someone that the balls were never the same, swollen and very painful. If this did indeed happen, couldn't that have done damage to nerves and possibly he could have become sterile which could interfer with hormones and such for maturing.

    I find it curios that the fact of Michael's autopsy report saying he was activally producing sperm. That fact was included and highlighted because somebody wanted it maybe to lay to rest the speculation of the children not being his biologically. Someone earlier had brought up this point of Michael being injured in the groin are from a beating. There are a couple of stories out there of two beating from his father, one in the younger years where he was punched in that area and one story when that first solo album was released(the one with Ben) I think MJ was about 14 and supposidly his father was pissed about the album not doing well and lifted one of Michael's leg and kicked him in the groin and MIchael told someone that the balls were never the same, swollen and very painful. If this did indeed happen, couldn't that have done damage to nerves and possibly he could have become sterile which could interfer with hormones and such for maturing.

    Hontas,

    Are you ready to admit that you were wrong now that the autopsy report proved that MJ was actively producing sperm at the time of his death?

    Hfarmer
    No because that does not prove he wasn't a castrato of some kind.  A person's testes can retain the ability to produce sperm as long as they are attached.  Even if they are scared or damaged in a way that they will not produce testosterone. 
    Some of you are so hung up on the idea that him being different is an insult.  The very differnces that I used to point out this possibility are the same ones that played some role in why he was so great. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    Honestly Hontas, I don't think you are at all familiar with MJ's body of work. Even if you listen to songs by The Jackson from the 70's your theory gets blown out of the water. I'm disgusted that you would slander this man in the name of your pet theory - even when proven wrong by the autopsy report.

    Really, you're a horrible person.

    Don't count on it, Anonymous. The castrati brigade will continue to insist Michael was a castrato no matter how many facts are thrown at them. Hontas isn't any different.

    This is an interesting discussion and I'm adding my comment late, but for what it's worth, I don't buy the castrato theory because his physiology was not a match. It sounds like many here are only familiar with Michael Jackson post circa Motown 25. At that point in his career he was already substantially morphed from his original appearance. I suggest that you take a few minutes to look at pictures of him pre-Thriller. His face was broader, he was slender but with well developed muscles and he usually had facial hair. His face was broader. Just prior to Thriller he changed his diet and did a lot of fasting - he lost weight and remained very skinny for many years. His broader face wasn't seen again till the taping of the Bashir documentary and I believe this had something to do with the fact that he'd broken his foot and wasn't exercising. The shape of his lower face and jaw line is similar to his younger brother Randy. Images confirming all of this are easily accessible on the internet.

    As a couple of commenters have astutely written - this business of observing Michael Jackson and the Jackson family under a microscope can get out of hand. What would any of us look like if we were scrutinized on that level and what would our family dynamic look like? Some people want to cast Michael's father in the role of the wicked witch of the north which is b.s. Maybe he was sometimes harsh on his kids - but so were most of fathers of Joe Jackson's generation and he does not deserve to be demonified for it - that is nonsense. Michael could have done a small thing by checking the media on these stories before they got out of hand - or by keeping his family squabbles to himself (like many of us do) but then again Michael also never had the sense to at least stop talking publicly about his "pure" bed sharing arrangements with his young friends so he probably wasn't the master of appropriate speech. As people pointed out above, Michael Jackson was human, and he sometimes he displayed terribly poor judgment which might be chalked up to the "knowitallism" that goes along with having a grown up job and your own money at a young age. It's hard enough to contain a teenager who doesn't have any money of his/her own, no car, and no place to go let alone a kid with Michael Jackson's means.

    Some of this intense scrutiny is unavoidable because it's part of how music is sold as a corporate product and it is unfortunate. I know too much coz I grew up on the music of Jackson 5 and sucked up all the info I could find from teen fan magazines and other media. I know little things like their faces pretty well because as a teenaged art student I drew portraits of different family members. Anyone who says Blanket looks like Michael jackson has no idea what MJ looked like or anyone else in the Jackson family for that matter btw. In short, I don't buy the castrato theory for a minute. In my opinion Michael Jackson was an excellent singer and dancer because he was born with some natural ability and he worked hard at developing his talent and maintaining it during the course of his life. Yes he had a soft voice but it should be noted that other family members have soft voices. MJ was not the anomaly he seemed to be. He seemed "different" in America simply because many black performers are never seen in the mainstream media. Michael Jackson bent over backwards to achieve and maintain a mainstream audience and for what it's worth the pressure probably drove him to drugs that eventually killed him and also how shall we say - off his rocker. But there are many others in this world who can sing and dance just as well - but we will never know their names because they are not corporate material and will never be signed by a recording company as mainstream artists.

    On google books, I found a medical treatise on skin pigmentation, to wit: The pigmentary system: physiology and pathophysiology By James J. Nordlund, Raymond E. Boissy, Vincent J. Hearing, Richard A. King, William S. Oetting, Jean-Paul Ortonne (Blackwell publishing 2006). This treatise included at p. 667 the following excerpt:

    Hypogonadism
    Castrated human males are characteristically pale (Edwards et al., 1941) The also exhibit an impaired ability to tan in response to ultraviolent radiation. Administration of testosterone restores the skin to a darker and more ruddy hue. Moreover, testosterone restores the capacity to tan after ultraviolet radition (Edwards et al. 1941). Hamilton and Huber (1938) reported an interesting effect of testosterone in the case of a castrated man with pale skin who did not tan much during the summer of observation. Some months after the summer sun exposure, he was treated with testosterone and all the previously sun-exposed sites developed a bronzed tan, whereas, sites previously sun shielded by a bathing costume failed to darken. Thus it appeared that melanin biosynthesis was primed by ultraviolet light but the priming could not be expressed until testosterone was provided.

    -------------

    Another thing I would like to note was the "This is It" rehearsal footage. In this rehearsal, the aging Michael Jackson was trying to preserve his throat for the performance and therefore singing softly and gently. For him, though, singing softly was singing alto. The one time he sang lower, in the duet with Judith Hill, "The Way You Make Me Feel," he complained that his throat felt strained. For most men, the reverse would have been true. They would have felt strained by singing high, not by singing low.

    I would observe the following symptoms in MJ that would be consistent with testosterone deficiency

    1. High voice
    2. Loose joints (very observable in his extraordinary, almost supernatural-looking, dancing)
    3. skin depigmentation
    4. immature peronality
    5. non-masculine appearance

    This does not mean that he was a complete castrato. Clearly he was not. He did have some facial hair. The autopsy indicated that his body was producing sperm. He did experience some lowering of his voice during his teen years. He also stated in interviews that his sperm was used in conceving Blanket.

    Therefore I would be more inclined to believe that he suffered from some sort of blunt impact trauma, possibly repeated blunt impact trauma, that led to catastrophic testosterone deficiency rather than castration.

    Exactly, this is what I think and wrote earlier. I think he was injured in the groin.

    I've always held the belief that Jackson's voice was feminine because of the extreme overuse of it during his childhood. I mean, the man sang nonstop, it's no wonder his vocal chords wouldn't develop normally. :/

    Cant we just accept Michael's wonderful voice?
    Does there need to be a scientific explanation for why it was the way it was?
    He had a high pitched voice, yeah who cares?
    He was great, a once in a lifetime thing, and we should have been content with him when we had him :)

    Hfarmer
    Vitiligo is not genetic


    WHAT IS VITILGO?

    Vitiligo (pronounced vit-er-lye-goe) is a skin condition in which patches of skin turn white. This is because the pigment cells which create melanins (the substances which give the skin its colour) have been destroyed. Vitiligo differs from many of the conditions described in the Genetic Condition Cards because there is no clear pattern of inheritance and no-one yet knows which (if any) gene or group of genes is responsible for the condition in humans. Vitiligo is probably a group of related conditions perhaps with different genetic components. The genes affect ones predisposition to Vitiligo, rather than definitely giving someone the disorder. (The "is probably" indicates speculation they don't know = no evidence of  genetic inheritability = not genetic).

    WHAT CAUSES VITILIGO?

    No-one is quite sure, but it appears that the condition can be triggered by many physical and psychological events including surgery, skin damage, accidents, hormonal changes, bereavement and stress. It is thought that in some cases the body's own immune system destroys the pigment cells.


    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

    Give it up, guys. Michael Jackson was a normal male. In fact, he was unusually well-endowed. That's what this is all about, isn't it?

    Amazing how so many can be so jealous of a dead man.

    Hfarmer
    The size of his penis would not necessarily have anything to do with the functioning of his testes and normal levels of testosterone production. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    I'm sure glad you all no more than you thought you knew in 09. Comparing Michael to way back in the 1700 is something else. Why can't you all just believe the boy was a gift from God, and work hard to keep up with his voice. This is a very sick article.

    Anybody ever heard of a tenor leggiero? Perfect explanation for Michael's pure voice. I myself am one, and basically a tenor leggiero is a man who, when given adequate training and transition(sometimes up to 5 years), develops a powerful extension of the head voice that no other vocal fach possesses(up to B5 without falsetto in rare cases). It can be referred to as the male equivalent of a coloratura soprano. This range does not diminish over time, and develops a unique bell like feminine sound, unless applying mixed voice.
    What makes this voice prone to misclassification is the fact that the tenor leggiero speaks in a high tone, a low tone(Baritone-esque}, or BOTH(alternating from time to time.)
    Famous examples of this type of voice are Steve Perry,Paul Simon and Klaus Meine.
    I personally find this explanation to be way more plausible than any of the rumors mentioned as of yet.

    Hfarmer
    That's a somewhat plausible explanation.  Now lets consider the biographical facts of Michael Jackson's life.  He was raised and lived until he reached national attention and stardom in Gary Indiana and a tiny house.  There was no classical opera training available, affordable, or probably known to the adults in his life.  Specifically I doubt Joe Jackson the prime mover behind the Jackson five knew of what you speak.  So your speculation is as it turns out not so plausible after all. 

    What do we know?  We know that Michael Jackson was in an abusive home in which he and his siblings were driven hard by their father, some say even abused.  It's more believable that Joe Jackson simply beat Michael a little too much in the wrong place one day.  A strong hard kick  or fall to the balls causing them to rupture or be damaged from which they never heal could produce the same results we see.  

    I urge anyone with doubts to again listen to Ben... As sung by Michael at different ages.  His voice basically does not change, does not break at all from 13 to his late 20's shown in this video. 



     In the video where he sings about childhood it's just the same. 
    Science advances as much by mistakes as by plans.
    "It's more believable that Joe Jackson simply beat Michael a little too much in the wrong place one day. A strong hard kick or fall to the balls causing them to rupture or be damaged from which they never heal could produce the same results we see."

    So could years of study. Michael Jackson studied with vocal coach Seth Riggs for decades, from the time he was a teenager. He had both natural talent and developed talent.

    For your edification, from the autopsy report of Michael Jackson (my emphasis):

    "The GENITALIA are those of an ADULT MALE."
    "BOTH TESTES are in the scrotum and are unremarkable and WITHOUT TRAUMA."
    "The right (slide L) and the left (slide M) TESTES SHOW ACTIVE SPERMATOGENESIS with the USUAL NUMBER OF LEYDIG CELLS. There is NO SIGNIFICANT FIBROSIS OR INFLAMMATION. The epididymides are unremarkable."

    Michael Jackson was a physically intact adult male, with no testosterone deficiency, no injury to his genitalia, who was actively producing sperm. The autopsy report has been available for some months. If I could find it online, so could you, but you prefer to ride your castrato hobby horse. Give it up, already, pretty please.

    You believe the autopsy report??!! BTW, autopsy reports
    do not normally say anything about the person's genitalia-
    unless there IS something unusual, such as a rape, trauma, ect.
    So, why do they protest so?
    I am still interested in knowing why so many injections and/ or
    creams? Not buying their story. Sounds like some type of
    replacement therapy to me.

    I am a professional singer and I have written a doctoral thesis on castrati. I find your poitn of biew most interesting. However, I do not buy it. As was mentioned in the comments, if there was indeed a hormonal problem, he would never have been able to father children and tehre woudl have been many other complications, as well. I have worked with a singer who's voice never dropped (he was effectively a 25 year old soprano). Drugs eventually forced him into puberty, but along with that went the high voice!
    MJ is a falsettist of extraordinary quality, in my opinion. I know many classical counter-tenors (male singers in the alto range) who can do acrobatically difficult things with their voice - all in the soprano/alto range! You refer to falsetto as a whiny sound, but I invite you look up some of the great singers in this range, such as Phillippe Jarousky or Andreas Scholl and you will QUICKLY change your mind.
    Anyway, it's great to see a prespective such as yours. Thanks for the hard work and giving us something to think about!
    Francisca Vanherle, DMA (UT Austin, 2002)

    I am a professional singer and I have written a doctoral thesis on castrati. I find your poitn of biew most interesting. However, I do not buy it. As was mentioned in the comments, if there was indeed a hormonal problem, he would never have been able to father children and tehre woudl have been many other complications, as well. I have worked with a singer who's voice never dropped (he was effectively a 25 year old soprano). Drugs eventually forced him into puberty, but along with that went the high voice!
    MJ is a falsettist of extraordinary quality, in my opinion. I know many classical counter-tenors (male singers in the alto range) who can do acrobatically difficult things with their voice - all in the soprano/alto range! You refer to falsetto as a whiny sound, but I invite you look up some of the great singers in this range, such as Phillippe Jarousky or Andreas Scholl and you will QUICKLY change your mind.
    Anyway, it's great to see a prespective such as yours. Thanks for the hard work and giving us something to think about!
    Francisca Vanherle, DMA (UT Austin, 2002)

    Michael produced sperm till the last day of his life (look at the autopsy), so the castrato idea goes away in the wind.
    And by the way, there are other singers like the Begees for example, and in my country there's a singer (called Flavio Paulin) who have the same high notes of MJ. Are there castrati??

    Michael produced sperm till the last day of his life (look at the autopsy), so the castrato idea goes away in the wind.
    And by the way, there are other singers like the Begees for example, and in my country there's a singer (called Flavio Paulin) who have the same high notes of MJ. Are there castrati??
    And I wanna add that Michael OUT of the sage was clearly different from the michael ON THE STAGE ON SOMETHINGS.And the problem with the women that u expressed, goes after what his ex wife Lisa said, and probably he had many other women that simply respect him.

    That's a somewhat plausible explanation. Now lets consider the biographical facts of Michael Jackson's life. He was raised and lived until he reached national attention and stardom in Gary Indiana and a tiny house. There was no classical opera training available, affordable, or probably known to the adults in his life. Specifically I doubt Joe Jackson the prime mover behind the Jackson five knew of what you speak. So your speculation is as it turns out not so plausible after all.

    What do we know? We know that Michael Jackson was in an abusive home in which he and his siblings were driven hard by their father, some say even abused. It's more believable that Joe Jackson simply beat Michael a little too much in the wrong place one day. A strong hard kick or fall to the balls causing them to rupture or be damaged from which they never heal could produce the same results we see.

    I urge anyone with doubts to again listen to Ben... As sung by Michael at different ages. His voice basically does not change, does not break at all from 13 to his late 20's shown in this video.
    ------------
    OMG give me a break please ARE U SERIOUS??
    My grandfather beat my uncles SO HARD, this can let u think they are castrati??
    Get a life! and leave THE MAN ALONE.
    second: do not JUDGE the others until u know them and their lives.
    Then u forgive how restrict was the eduzation at the time: that means that probably Joe Jackson was not the only one who beated his sons so hard (I'm not a joe jackson fan, but this is the truth), so michael should not be the only one castrated.

    I am a doctor and a musician and I can tell that you, Hontas Farmer, are a poor ignorant who keeps talking bullshit. Farinelli was a mezzosoprano, indeed. But Michael Jackson was COUNTER-TENOR - if you know what it means. If not, make a search on google. Michael Jackson's voice was normal, he was normal, it was nothing missing on him as a man - which I can't talk about you and some of those who are blabing around. Come on! Raise your pants from the floor and get a life!

    Hey,

    Ease up people! She expressed an opinion, that's all. She noted her facts that she believes supports her ideas. She could be right, she could be wrong. Don't sweat it, it's a theory, meant to explain a series of strange events and behaviors. Don't fault her for being curious and sharing her ideas. It is at least, very difficult to explain an all black man that fathered 2 obviously caucasian children and 1 possibly, Indian (looking) child. Remember, one of his best friends Dick Gregory even said that he was given hormones to keep his voice high as a child. The world may never know, but please allow Hountas to express her opinion openly. In America there is "free speech" as a right in our constitution and the internet is a part of that free speech.

    I believe Michael Jackson was given chemical hormones.
    I don't believe those are Michael Jackson's biological children at
    all.
    STILL the odd thing is that Michael's father, grandfather, and
    all brothers and cousins did not develop any autoimmune diseases. They all have/are living rather robust lives.
    The women in the family seem healthy as well.
    Some might argue that castrati gained weight in certain areas of their bodies, but with ANY knowledge of this, a certain person
    might not eat as much and would certainly eat healthier low fat
    foods; the earlier castrati singers were wined and dined as celebrities of their time.
    Many men with prostate cancer, with all other resources exhausted, have opted for castration to save their lives, and
    very few of them have fat deposits and "breasts". Look into it yourself.

    I believe Michael Jackson was given chemical hormones.
    I don't believe those are Michael Jackson's biological children at
    all.
    STILL the odd thing is that Michael's father, grandfather, and
    all brothers and cousins did not develop any autoimmune diseases. They all have/are living rather robust lives.
    The women in the family seem healthy as well.
    Some might argue that castrati gained weight in certain areas of their bodies, but with ANY knowledge of this, a certain person
    might not eat as much and would certainly eat healthier low fat
    foods; the earlier castrati singers were wined and dined as celebrities of their time.
    Many men with prostate cancer, with all other resources exhausted, have opted for castration to save their lives, and
    very few of them have fat deposits and "breasts". Look into it yourself.

    I believe Michael Jackson was given chemical hormones.
    I don't believe those are Michael Jackson's biological children at
    all.
    STILL the odd thing is that Michael's father, grandfather, and
    all brothers and cousins did not develop any autoimmune diseases. They all have/are living rather robust lives.
    The women in the family seem healthy as well.
    Some might argue that castrati gained weight in certain areas of their bodies, but with ANY knowledge of this, a certain person
    might not eat as much and would certainly eat healthier low fat
    foods; the earlier castrati singers were wined and dined as celebrities of their time.
    Many men with prostate cancer, with all other resources exhausted, have opted for castration to save their lives, and
    very few of them have fat deposits and "breasts". Look into it yourself.

    Dude, just because he is ABLE to sing high and PREFERS to sing higher does not make him a mezzo or any of that. If you search for his warming-up sessions with Seth Riggs, you will notice that he had a tenor voice, which extends down to a solid F2. That is a note most contralto's can't even think about. Also, his upper range IS falsetto. The reason why he does it so effortlessly is because he trained to sing in his mixed register, which blended his chest and his higher registers so it doesn't break and you won't hear a change in timbre either. His highest FULL chest notes are the D5's he belts out in Baby Be Mine. He is clearly a tenor, he said it himself (why would he lie about that?) and Seth Riggs, one of the most famous vocal coaches in the world says he is a high tenor. I think he is a tenor leggiero, because of his effortless high notes and blending, his thin timbre and light vocal weight and his ability to get into the low notes (read about the Tenor Leggiero).

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