Our second session of SciFoo Lives On took place today on Nature Island in Second Life (SLURL). The topic was Medicine and Web 2.0, as suggested by Bertalan Mesko (Berci) at the last session. We had a very good turnout, with about 30 people. Many returned from last week's session but there were many new faces also. Berci ran the session with me and helped out all week with getting our presenters set up with posters and general navigation. He also had the first poster with lots of great resources for blogs and wikis by and for doctors, medical students and anyone interested in medicine. Other presenters were from Tiromed (linking doctors and medical students in mentorship relationships) and Biowizard (a service to rank and comment on medical articles). I had a one page summary of our collaborators who do docking and those who will be testing our compounds for anti-malarial or anti-tumor activity. I was very pleased that our testing collaborator Dan Zaharevitz from the National Cancer Institute was able to join us and talked a bit about the potential benefits of doing drug development in the open. There is a lot more to be said about about that and we'll probably set up a session on that topic alone at SciFoo Lives On in a while. Deepak Singh could not make it so we didn't look at his poster. But we'll do a session soon on Video in Science and make sure that he can attend and present. It was good to see Cameron Neylon show up as well. I've recently blogged about his discussions of Open Notebook Science. Next week on Tuesday September 4, 2007 at 16:00 GMT we'll be doing a session on Definitions and Open Science. Contact me or Berci if you wish to put up a poster and see you there! All the posters are still available for viewing. (SLURL) Here is the transcript (this is a good place to find links to the stuff that was discussed): [9:00] You: welcome [9:00] You: lets get started [9:00] You: looks like we have a lot of people from last week! [9:00] You: basically this week's session was proposed by Berci [9:00] You: we've got 5 posters [9:00] You: about Medicine and web2.0 [9:01] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:01] You: please feel free to participate in the discussion [9:01] Cary Flanagan: bling off [9:01] Emile Pintens is Online [9:01] You: berci I'm handing it off to you [9:01] Berci Dryke: thank you, Jean-Claude! [9:01] Berci Dryke: Welcome in this week's session [9:01] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:01] Rakerman Yellowjacket is Online [9:01] Berci Dryke: as web 2.0 is based on feedback, please feel free to interrupt me whenever you have a question [9:02] Berci Dryke: I'd like to say a few words about my slides [9:02] Berci Dryke: I planned to talk about these tools/services/sites [9:02] Berci Dryke: medicine and web 2.0 has a special realationship [9:02] Berci Dryke: web 2.0 should ease the work of physicians/medstudents and scientists as well [9:02] Berci Dryke: I should start with medical blogs [9:02] Touch me for a Free BioWizard T-Shirt!: Thanks! - 5 [9:03] Berci Dryke: wyou know well we have about 100 Million blogs these days [9:03] Berci Dryke: and 3-500 medical blogs [9:03] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:03] Berci Dryke: we have a list of English medical blogs here: [9:03] Berci Dryke: http://medblog.nl/2007/08/15/sneak-preview-ranking-english-written-medbl... [9:04] Berci Dryke: they're ranked by the number of comments, posts, feed readers and Technorati links [9:04] Berci Dryke: physicians nowadays must face the fact that their patients do have a blog [9:04] Berci Dryke: and write about their own doctors [9:04] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:05] You: how many of these are doctors? [9:05] Berci Dryke: it's hard to tell an exact number or percent [9:05] Berci Dryke: I would say about 20 % [9:05] Berci Dryke: that's why it's crucial to have a standard code of blogging ethics [9:05] Berci Dryke: actually, we have two [9:05] Berci Dryke: the HONcode accreditation [9:06] Berci Dryke: and this: http://medbloggercode.com [9:06] Touch me for a Free BioWizard T-Shirt!: Thanks! - 6 [9:06] Berci Dryke: the second is a community of bloggers who take blogging very seriously [9:06] Berci Dryke: an other important question is anonymity [9:06] You: are they mostly anonymous? [9:07] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:07] Berci Dryke: Horace: no! [9:07] Berci Dryke: Just a few of them wouldn't like to write their names online [9:07] You have offered friendship to Melvina Palen [9:08] Melvina Palen is Online [9:08] Berci Dryke: maybe because of the fear that they can write something bad about their boss/employer [9:08] Clay Cazalet is Online [9:08] Berci Dryke: so blogging for medical professionals makes it easier to share knowledge and experience [9:08] Hiro Sheridan is Online [9:08] Berci Dryke: we don't have to wait for a conference or a future puiblication to be able to discuss a new diagnostic tool/procedure e.g. [9:09] You: any doctors in the house? [9:09] Berci Dryke: we do havce [9:09] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Yes [9:09] You: do you blog doc ann [9:09] Hilary Serevi is Online [9:09] DoctorAnn Buchanan: I have started one, but am stumbling with it a bit at the moment. [9:09] You: docann are you worried about liability [9:10] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Yes, it is a concern. [9:10] You: would biowizard like to start? [9:10] Berci Dryke: that's why we need an accurate blogger code of ethics [9:10] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome Hilary Serevi. You have been counted. [9:10] Berci Dryke: just a minute, Horace [9:10] You: sure [9:11] Berci Dryke: yes,medical wikis [9:11] Berci Dryke: Wikipedia is created for laypeople [9:11] Berci Dryke: but we do need medical wikis, where only credentialed professionals can edit the articles [9:12] Berci Dryke: the best example for that is Ask Dr Wiki [9:12] Berci Dryke: a wiki created for and by physicians [9:12] Berci Dryke: an othet important tool for physicians is a medical search engine [9:13] Berci Dryke: Google can't select among the sources, so we needed search engines that only search among peer-reviewed sources [9:13] Berci Dryke: so when you search for a term like diabetes [9:13] Berci Dryke: you don't have to run through some forums and ads [9:13] Berci Dryke: it's useful for laypeople and for professionals as well [9:14] Berci Dryke: you know well these web 2.0 based sites (Youtube, Flickr, etc) [9:14] Berci Dryke: these can be considered as medical resources as well [9:14] Berci Dryke: on Clinicalcases.org, you can find hundreds of medical cases (with fascinating images) [9:14] Berci Dryke: on Videojug.com, you'll find medical videos created ny physicians [9:15] Berci Dryke: and Second Life, let me say a few words about it [9:15] Berci Dryke: the Ann Myers Medical Center [9:15] Berci Dryke: ammc.wordpress.com [9:15] Berci Dryke: we had our first medical training 2 weeks ago [9:15] Berci Dryke: as a medical student, it was one of the most incredible lectures/trainings in my life [9:15] Berci Dryke: we got a patient history as a notecard [9:16] Berci Dryke: then some images (tissue, microscopic, etc) [9:16] Berci Dryke: and we had to discuss (with the other medical students coming from around the world) the case [9:16] Berci Dryke: while the physicians helped us how to answer the questions [9:16] You have offered friendship to DoctorAnn Buchanan [9:16] DoctorAnn Buchanan is Online [9:17] Berci Dryke: it was interactive, interesting and (I really believe) it was the beginning of a new era in medical education [9:17] Stargazer Blazer is Online [9:17] Touch me for a Free BioWizard T-Shirt!: Thanks! - 7 [9:17] Berci Dryke: to learn/study without boundaries, it's just perfect [9:17] Troy McLuhan: Where is it in SL? Is it open to the public? [9:17] Berci Dryke: you can ask your questions about this project to DoctorAnn or Cary [9:17] Berci Dryke: I give you a link [9:17] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Yes, it is on "Hospital" Island [9:17] Berci Dryke: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hospital/132/119/49 [9:18] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:18] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Is this the new location Berci? [9:18] Berci Dryke: I think so [9:18] DoctorAnn Buchanan nods [9:18] You have offered friendship to Zen Zeddmore [9:18] Berci Dryke: any questions ab out it? [9:18] Miss Dawes: Can I ask who your tutors where - were they doctors? If so, how did they feel about the tutorial? [9:19] Berci Dryke: DoctorAnn, pleas [9:19] Berci Dryke: e [9:19] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Yes, the physicians are leading the "courses". [9:19] Touch me for a Free BioWizard T-Shirt!: Thanks! - 8 [9:19] DoctorAnn Buchanan: We are in the process of collaborating with Sprott-Shaw college and Sloodle to develop a curriculum [9:19] Zen Zeddmore is Online [9:19] Miss Dawes: How did they feel about mastering SL? It'd be a new skill - and one they'd perhaps not use elsewhere. Was that a problem? [9:20] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Each physician is presenting a case to the students [9:20] You have offered friendship to MrFlakes Rodenberger [9:20] DoctorAnn Buchanan: So far, only a few have had any issues, but those of us who have become proficient are assisting [9:20] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Additionally, the Sprott-Shaw tech team is helping [9:21] Berci Dryke: Miss Dawes: I don't think so: to learn more about a specific disorder by history and images and links is much better than to sit in a real life room and listening to a doctor [9:21] DoctorAnn Buchanan: We currently have white boards, a file system, video and audio for training [9:21] Miss Dawes: We are thinking of using SL in PG medicine teaching - but I am worried about training the clinicians to use SL. [9:21] Berci Dryke: we had to find out the disorder [9:21] You have offered friendship to Miss Dawes [9:21] Miss Dawes is Online [9:22] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:22] Berci Dryke: just to move on: NHS, CDC, Red Cross all have their sites in SL [9:22] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Actually, most of our physiciansm nurse educators and scientists have learned it rather quickly [9:22] Berci Dryke: and at last, I'd like to introduce you two medical communities: [9:22] Ummo Femto is Offline [9:23] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome MrFlakes Rodenberger. You have been counted. [9:23] Berci Dryke: first, Lauren from Biowizard.com, then Max from Tiromed.com, but they'll introduce themselves and their sites better [9:23] Berci Dryke: thank you for the attention! [9:23] Troy McLuhan: Will these slides be posted online? [9:23] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:23] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Berci, will you ahve these slides available for download? [9:24] Berci Dryke: these slides have already been posted online (an extended version with 67 slides) [9:24] Berci Dryke: here: http://scienceroll.com/medicine-20/ [9:24] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Excellent, thank you. [9:24] You: we can put a link from here also [9:24] Berci Dryke: I'll Jean-Claude [9:24] Berci Dryke: any questions? [9:24] Cameron Niekerk: Is there a big enough community to support Wiki and digg type sites? [9:25] Berci Dryke: good question! the number is growing, more and more medical professionals use these sites [9:25] Berci Dryke: Tiromed.com and Biowizard are the perfect examples [9:25] Vidal Loon: I believe there is. Other examples of communities based on even more specific topics have been set and are growing with the help of wikis. [9:26] Samara Barzane is Offline [9:26] Miss Dawes: Sorry but I'm still wondering about the training of clinicians/physicians to give tutorials in SL? You say that's not a problem? Is that right? [9:26] Morrhys Graysmark: How can Second Life extend the idea of these sites? Can the "sites" be turned into 3-D places in SL? With model instruments, animations? [9:26] Berci Dryke: Radiopaedia.org, a radiology wiki is getting some sponsors as well [9:26] Berci Dryke: Morrhys: I think just some of them [9:27] You have offered friendship to Cameron Niekerk [9:27] Berci Dryke: medicine in SL is not represented enough to convert those sites into SL world [9:27] MrFlakes Rodenberger: PubMed gets 1M daily visits; the community is absolutely present online [9:27] Cameron Niekerk is Online [9:27] Berci Dryke: but this is not a community, to be honest [9:27] Ummo Femto is Online [9:27] Berci Dryke: if Pubmed would be more interactive, then we could call it a community [9:27] Berci Dryke: Ummo: please say a few words about Biowizard.co [9:27] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Yesm Morrhys, is I may answer your question. [9:27] DoctorAnn Buchanan: if [9:27] Morrhys Graysmark: Please. [9:28] DoctorAnn Buchanan: We have and are in the process of building equipment that will be linked to sites and from which the student will make an analysis [9:28] Ummo Femto: Hello, thanks for your attention while I briefly discuss BioWizard.com [9:29] You have offered friendship to Bor Boram [9:29] Bor Boram is Online [9:29] Ummo Femto: BioWizard is a tool used for life scientists looking to simplify their research [9:30] Ummo Femto: as this slide indicates, we have a host of features [9:30] Troy McLuhan: Hold down ALT then click-drag your mouse to zoom [9:31] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:31] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:31] Ummo Femto: Bertalan referenced Digg earlier, and as you can see, we feature a a Digg model that allows users to rank PubMed articles [9:32] Meditador Writer: sorry [9:32] You: so like Connotea? [9:32] Meditador Writer: i´m [9:32] Meditador Writer: lost [9:32] Melvina Palen is Offline [9:32] Ummo Femto: to the left you will see that their are 18 disciplines to which these articles are organized [9:32] Melvina Palen is Online [9:33] Meditador Writer: pardon [9:33] Ummo Femto: Meditador, how can I help you find your way? [9:33] Meditador Writer: i´m just listening [9:33] Ummo Femto: from my brief glance, I think Connotea is more like a reference tool, [9:34] Troy McLuhan: Like del.icio.us [9:34] Meditador Writer: my first time [9:34] Ummo Femto: The current slide shows how our tool differs from PubMed [9:34] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:34] Ummo Femto: the difference largely being that we have the interactivity that PubMed lacks [9:35] Adastar Galsworthy is Online [9:35] You: so you are linking and discussing articles? [9:35] Berci Dryke: and rank them [9:35] Teo Lorenz: can you flip the slides a little slower please? they take longer to rez for me [9:35] Ummo Femto: correct, with a host of products to search on [9:35] Ummo Femto: yes, I apologize about the slides, I think other users are clicking on them while I speak [9:36] Clay Cazalet is Offline [9:36] Emile Pintens: sorry about that...i am guilty [9:36] Zen Zeddmore: As 3dPrinting tech matures and we see more implants and organs "printed", does SL in that context provide a means to transfer data, view docking problems, collaborate editing the article remotly, etc? [9:36] Ummo Femto: BioWizard also offers aggregated news based on the 18 disciplines in the left hand column of the screen shot in the current slide [9:36] Adastar Galsworthy is Offline [9:37] Teo Lorenz: oh! i might have even don that myself once - I thought it would give me URL or something. [9:37] You: zen we have done some docking [9:37] Meditador Writer: Odes [9:37] Hiro Sheridan: :) [9:37] Meditador Writer: Does Bip [9:37] Morrhys Graysmark: Do you see "articles" moving toward taking advantage of virtual 3-D worlds, by publishing 3-D enabled models as part of scientific papers? [9:38] Visitor Counter 1.8: Welcome Itep Blanco. You have been counted. [9:38] Meditador Writer: Has Biohazrd stuff in clinical analysis? [9:38] Ummo Femto: BioWizard does not currently have a 3D presence in Second life, but as the web evolves beyond 2.0, welcome every consideration [9:39] Morrhys Graysmark: Thank-you. [9:39] Troy McLuhan: I think SL is, for now, far more useful as a place for people to discuss things real-time, rather than a "place for 3D models" [9:40] Ummo Femto: BioWizard's content is primarily that featured on PubMed [9:40] Ummo Femto: In the interest of keeping this session brief, I'll wrap up my session [9:40] Samara Barzane is Online [9:40] Hiro Sheridan: leveraging web services to display 3d models in SL will come eventually :) [9:41] Teo Lorenz: I think I read somewhere that Linden Lab does not envision the kind of 3D capabilities that are needed for any reasonable scientific modelling or simulations. [9:41] Berci Dryke: thank you, Ummo! [9:41] Ummo Femto: unless there are other questions pertaining to BioWizard [9:41] Berci Dryke: Max, would you say a few words please about Tiromed.com? [9:41] You have offered friendship to Cary Flanagan [9:41] Tiromed Oppewall: Hello everyone! My name is Max and I am a co-founder and web admin of Tiromed.com. First, I’d like to thank Berci from Scienceroll.com for inviting me to speak. [9:41] Cary Flanagan is Online [9:41] Berci Dryke: you're most welcome! [9:42] Tiromed Oppewall: I also want to say that I am a beginner with SL so I apologize ahead of time for my learning curve. I’d like to give a brief introduction about Tiromed.com and then open things up for questions if that’s okay. [9:42] Meditador Writer: sorry but does biohazard have material in clinical analysis? [9:42] Hiro Sheridan is Offline [9:42] Tiromed Oppewall: INTRODUCTION: Tiromed.com is an international knowledge and mentor network for physicians and students of medicine. [9:42] Tiromed Oppewall: Our vision was to create an online community that could help anyone during their journey from a premed to a practicing physician; we believe that this can only be possible if all user levels join and share their knowledge and experience with each other (i.e. premed, medical student, resident, fellow and physician). [9:43] Tiromed Oppewall: We have been in beta for about 11 months: we have over 2600 members, represent over 70 countries and have formed several partnerships with medical associations, including the International Federation of Medical Students’ Associations, the largest medical student entity on the globe (please see www.tiromed.com/ifmsa). [9:43] Tiromed Oppewall: We have had tremendous feedback from the “prototype” website we have up and running, and continue to explore how we can make Tiromed a better service. Tiromed was founded by three practicing physicians and me (a graduated premed) in the U.S. [9:43] You: does it help students find rotations? [9:43] Tiromed Oppewall: . Web 2.0 plays a significant role in our development as we are trying to create a knowledge based environment where the community can collectively give back and share information with each other. [9:44] Tiromed Oppewall shouts: Thank you for listening to my introduction, I’d be happy to take some questions from you. [9:44] Tiromed Oppewall: we would ulitmatley like to build functionality that helps students find rotations nationally and internationally [9:45] You: so there is discussion of the medical life? [9:45] Tiromed Oppewall: the focus of tiromed was to faciliate discussion about the process of becoming a physician [9:45] Berci Dryke: I'd have one: I'm a member of Tiromed. As a medical student from Hungary, how do you make it possible for me to do my residency training in the US? e.g. [9:46] Meditador Writer: does Tiromed.com have stuff in clinical analysis? [9:46] Tiromed Oppewall: well, we will take tiromed to a place where there will be more information about redsidencies [9:46] Tiromed Oppewall: we are working on this now [9:47] Berci Dryke: how do you think you could improve the number of members? [9:47] Berci Dryke: do medical professionals intend to join Tiromed? [9:47] Tiromed Oppewall: we are less clinicaly and academic focused for now, more about progession throught th ephysican process [9:47] Tiromed Oppewall: we are currently working with medical associations to provide network platforms to their members [9:47] Emile Pintens: Tiromed, how do you plan on reaching more doctors to grow tiromed? [9:48] Tiromed Oppewall: working with medical associations will definitely help us here [9:48] You have offered friendship to Morrhys Graysmark [9:48] Teo Lorenz: How do you validate the information (authorship/credentials) of material on Tiro*Med? [9:48] Berci Dryke: what kind of features do you plan to create in the near future? [9:48] Tiromed Oppewall: for an example see www.tiromed.com/ifmsa :) [9:49] Tiromed Oppewall: Ted, we are looking into this now [9:49] Tiromed Oppewall: Berci, we are listening to feedback from membership about how to improve [9:49] Tiromed Oppewall: many members like the networking capability [9:49] Morrhys Graysmark is Online [9:49] Tiromed Oppewall: this may get more sophisticated [9:50] Tiromed Oppewall: well, if that is it i encourage you all to check out the site and contact me, my name is max [9:50] Tiromed Oppewall: thank you [9:50] Berci Dryke: Horace, can we move on to the next board? [9:50] Berci Dryke: thank you, Max! [9:50] You: yes [9:50] Berci Dryke: www.tiromed.com [9:50] Berci Dryke: and http://www.biowizard.com [9:51] You: I'll move on to a different angle on this - primary research [9:51] Ummo Femto: thank you, Berci [9:51] Berci Dryke: sorry, Cary :) [9:51] Cary Flanagan: heh..np [9:51] You: on this board you see our drug development efforts that we do in the open [9:51] Berci Dryke: http://www.tiromed.com [9:51] You: on blogs, wikis and mailing lists [9:51] You: my group is in the middle - we are synthetic organic chemists [9:52] You: but we have collaborators who do docking - like Rajarshi [9:52] You: and people who do testing of the compounds we make [9:52] Stargazer Blazer is Offline [9:52] You: I did a lot of talking last week - I'd like to give one of our collaborators some time [9:52] You: Dan, would you like to say a few words? [9:53] Doolin Chemistry: Well it will have to be a few as I get used to this medium [9:53] Morrhys Graysmark: :) [9:53] Melvina Palen is Offline [9:53] You: docking means finding molecules that fit in proteins [9:53] Doolin Chemistry: One of the things I'm interested in is how these open collaborative efforts can help with the drug discovery problem [9:53] Digital Despres is Offline [9:54] Doolin Chemistry: J-s's group, like a lot of academics have only a vageue idea of what it takes to find a drug. [9:54] Doolin Chemistry: On the other hand, noone really knows very well how to find a drug. [9:55] Doolin Chemistry: Industry is concerned about their "pipeline" and what it will mean for profits. and yet about 9 out of 10 compounds that make ito clinical trials fail. [9:56] Doolin Chemistry: Increasingly they fail not because of unexpected toxcitites, but do to lack of positive effect. [9:57] Doolin Chemistry: When the baisc problem is not well understood, I htink a strong case can be made that the way to approach it is through the baisc standards of science: that is free and open communication and even agrumentation [9:58] Doolin Chemistry: The project wih J-C's group is a start to explore what might happen if the proces was open to a much wider range of thoughts and input, rather than one group trying to do it all. [9:58] yucca Gemini is Online [9:59] Doolin Chemistry: One of the things I hope to take advantage of, is learning how best to transfer our (NCI) knowledge and experience of testing > 100,000 compounds into a synthetic academic group. [9:59] Tenaya Tomsen is Online [9:59] You: we're fortunate to have Dan collaborating with us [10:00] You: he has tested our compounds [10:00] Doolin Chemistry: I think that is about all I can get out at the moment, but would be happy to try to discuss. [10:00] You: it also looks like we are at the end of the session [10:00] You: maybe we can continue on another week [10:00] You: next week tuesday is on [10:00] Emile Pintens: Same time? [10:00] You: Definitions in Open Science [10:00] You: yes 16:00 GMT [10:00] Berci Dryke: not Monday? [10:01] You: no Monday is a holiday here [10:01] Berci Dryke: o [10:01] Troy McLuhan: 16:00 GMT is 9:00 AM PDT (SL time) [10:01] Berci Dryke: oh [10:01] You: any suggestions for future sessions? [10:01] Berci Dryke: Thank you all for coming! [10:01] Morrhys Graysmark: Thank you for the presentations. [10:01] Berci Dryke: if you have any kind of questions, I think some of us will stay here now [10:01] Morrhys Graysmark: They were most informative! [10:01] DoctorAnn Buchanan: Thank you. [10:01] You: thanks everybody [10:01] Emile Pintens: SciVee I think should be included... [10:02] Berci Dryke: Deepak couldn't make it [10:02] You: good idea emile [10:02] Berci Dryke: he stucked in a meeting [10:02] You: I think we can build a session around scivee and video science [10:02] Berci Dryke: Deepak will be so glad :) [10:02] You: JOVE and such [10:02] Berci Dryke: and Bioscreencast [10:02] You: absolutely [10:02] Vidal Loon: I've got a bunch of posts on the video/science bubble that's formed [10:02] Emile Pintens: sounds good [10:02] Troy McLuhan: If anyone here knows someone at SciVee, please tell them to clarify the license. They are ambiguous about whether it is CC-by or CC-by-nc-sa [10:02] Rakerman Yellowjacket: science video sounds interesting [10:03] You: on the wall to my left is the list of upcoming confs [10:03] You: I'll update [10:03] Rakerman Yellowjacket: maybe someone from Scientific American can come and clarify what they're doing? [10:03] Vidal Loon: Yes, indeed. I bet Deepak would be interested in talking about that. [10:03] Berci Dryke: absolutely [10:03] Berci Dryke: any questions about web 2.0 and medicine? [10:03] You: we'll leave these posters up [10:04] You: feel free to show your friends :)