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    Richard Dawkins Was Right!
    By Steve Davis | December 9th 2009 01:43 AM | 30 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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        It’s all true! He was right! He was totally, hopelessly wrong about selfish genes, but he was right about memes. Well…he was a little bit right. He was wrong to equate the evolution of memes to the evolution of organisms, meme evolution being Lamarckian in character. But he was right to point out the potential capacity for memes (i.e cultural concepts) to prevent logical thought in the minds of their hosts. To ‘colonise’ those minds as Fred Phillips puts it. Dawkins likes to use religion to illustrate this point, but I prefer his own pet theory of   selfish genes.
       Selfish gene theory was so successful in being accepted by the scientific community that even those who now dispute its significance and actively promote alternative views are held captive by its underlying themes. D.S. Wilson is a case in point. At The Huffington Post he has presented a great series of articles titled Truth and Reconciliation for Group Selection which undermine the gene-only view of evolution (in quite provocative style at times) and present the argument for multi-level selection. Here’s an extract from his latest (15th) article. See if you can spot the influence of selfish gene theory.
        In Truth and Reconciliation XIV, I showed that prejudice against group selection is impervious to evidence from laboratory experiments. It is also impervious to evidence from the wild. (The prejudice against group selection shows us that selfish gene theory is a classic meme, as it prevents consideration of alternative positions. SD) He continued;
    I will focus on one of many examples that can be provided. In 1995, Robert Heinsohn and Craig Packer published an important paper on territorial defense in lions in the journal Science. As good experimental field biologists, they had played recordings of lions from neighboring territories to observe how females of the focal territory responded. They discovered that the same individuals consistently arrived first at the scene while others consistently lagged behind. There seemed to be bravehearts and cowardly lions within the same pride.
    Heinsohn and Packer looked for an advantage to counteract the cost of territorial defense for the bravehearts within their own pride and couldn't find it. The bravehearts weren't socially dominant, they didn't have more offspring, and they didn't punish the cowardly lions, who simply seemed to be cheating and getting away with it. The bravehearts were providing a public good at their own expense, an animal version of the tragedy of the commons made famous by Garrett Hardin in the 1960's. Here is how Heinsohn and Packer described the situation to the best of their knowledge:
    "Female lions share a common resource, the territory; but only a proportion of females pay the full costs of territorial defense. If too few females accept the responsibilities of leadership, the territory will be lost. If enough females cooperate to defend the range, their territory is maintained, but their collective effort is vulnerable to abuse by their companions. Leaders do not gain "additional benefits" from leading, but they do provide an opportunity for laggards to gain a free ride…..”

       Wilson responded to this by revisiting the conclusions that he and EO Wilson reached in their joint paper Rethinking the Theoretical Foundations of Sociobiology; “The counterbalance for cheating does not reside within the group; it resides in the process of more cooperative groups outcompeting less cooperative groups.” There it is again. Did you catch it? Cheating? On what grounds has the word “cheating” been introduced? Wilson later correctly criticised Heinsohn and Packer for not considering group selection as a possible answer to the behaviour of the lions, but he showed us the insidious effect of selfish gene theory on his own thinking by accepting their “free ride” assumptions. Cheating, the most highly refined form of selfishness, (because it is hidden and therefore unlikely to be punished) is a much-favored concept among the gene-only theorists. It crops up repeatedly in their fanciful imagined scenarios, so we should not be surprised to see it rear its head in the treatment by Heinsohn and Packer of a real life study. What is surprising is that Wilson, a worthy adversary of selfish gene theory, accepts it without question.
      The fact is; there is no cheating, or none of any consequence. Lions are intelligent animals and lion society is correspondingly complex. In complex societies we see division of labour and specialisation in regard to certain skills. Heinsohn and Packer’s “bravehearts” are not the pride leaders at all; they are the young, the reckless, and sometimes the stupid members of the pride, just as we send our young, reckless and sometimes stupid members off to fight. (You don’t see generals in bayonet charges or throwing hand grenades.) The “laggards” they refer to were in all likelihood the “bravehearts” in days gone by, and now have a different role to play, a different contribution to the pride. They might specialise in protecting the cubs or in using their wits and experience to catch prey, rather than speed and strength. There’s any number of explanations for their actions, but as far as the gene meme is concerned, they’re cheating.
      Wilson’s acceptance of the cheating assumption was not an isolated case of carelessness; it is part and parcel of his interpretation of the selfishness versus unselfishness debate. For example, in this article he states at one point; “…the last word has not been written on lion social behavior. Perhaps they or someone else will find a within-group advantage for bravehearts in the future.” It’s really not that difficult. The within-group advantage for the defenders of the pride is that they will be able to take it a little easier as they grow older. His inability to see this glaringly obvious truth speaks volumes about the capacity for bad ideas to paralyse the analytical skills of our most able thinkers. Wilson himself made some good points on this matter with the closing lines from his article;
      “One reason that I am writing this series of blogs is because I am an idealist about science. I regard it as the best cultural system we have for holding people accountable for what they say. Scientists have a responsibility to keep track of the history of their ideas and to acknowledge mistakes from the past, no matter how large. Unfortunately, like religion, science as practiced often falls short of science as idealized. The group selection controversy is an embarrassment for science and the sooner its shortcomings are corrected, the better.”  Unfortunately those shortcomings will not be corrected until it’s universally recognised that selfish gene theory is not just a little bit wrong, it’s not something that can be tinkered and prodded into acceptability, it is a destructive concept with no redeeming features.


    Comments

    Who is it that says he is totally wrong and where is the evidence that supports their view.

    The Selfish Gene can and does describe its application to 'altruism', individual and group level co-operation of various kinds so cannot just be dismissed as 'wrong' as you have done.

    It is a very insightful publication and completely misunderstood by many readers. As Dawkins has said himself it could have been better named as The Co-operative Gene which better describes the theory!

    As far as meme theory goes read Susan Blackmore's The Meme Machine for a pretty good description, understanding and explanation, if that is at all possible.

    Steve Davis
    I believe this article was about DS Wilson's blog Truth and Reconciliation for Group Selection XV, not The Selfish Gene or The Meme Machine. Rob Willox (Willcox?) has shown the power of the gene meme by his inability to discuss the issue. If Rob really wants to see evidence for the shortcomings of selfish gene theory he could look up Evolutionary Biology- Home of the Idiot Savant, or Gerhard Adams' series of articles on Biology.
    It may have been an article about the subject you indicate but you start out in the introduction making a point about selfish gene theory and in the very last sentence end with it stating it is not just wrong but a destructive concept with no redeeming features.

    And, indeed, the article, as far as I can see in the excert, does not itself prove or otherwise the failings of 'selfish gene' theory but emphasises the cooperative nature of the lion pride.

    It is you who make the unjustied leap when you state "It’s really not that difficult. The within-group advantage for the defenders of the pride is that they will be able to take it a little easier as they grow older. His inability to see this glaringly obvious truth speaks volumes about the capacity for bad ideas to paralyse the analytical skills of our most able thinkers."

    I would agree with the statement, "The group selection controversy is an embarrassment for science and the sooner its shortcomings are corrected, the better."

    As said in first post, that if you and others would substitute, even ocassionally, the term cooperative rather than selfish when discussing the issue it might just make it clearer, less threatening and not the threat some may perceive it to be to perhaps some already held philosophical standpoint!

    I might just take up your suggestion for further reading to see if it does truly expose its shortcoming but one shortcoming I don't have is loss of memory, at least, not yet and I would just like to confirm that I still know my own name and it is Willox!

    Gerhard Adam
    ...that if you and others would substitute, even ocassionally, the term cooperative rather than selfish when discussing the issue it might just make it clearer...

    Rob, that's where I have the problem.  When you can substitute completely opposite terms into the same "theory", then clearly it is incorrect.  While one can certainly make the argument that "selfish gene" really means a gene-centric perspective, then that may be a useful way to view certain biological phenomenon, but it isn't a theory.

    This is also what leads to absurd statements like "altruistic behavior is based on selfishness".  These statements don't make sense because they are attempting to assess motivation instead of evaluating the action itself.  In other words, when an action is evaluated as being altruistic to suggest that it's cause is still "selfish" is to assign a motive to the gene (or whatever agent is being considered).  That's way outside the bounds of anyone's knowledge.

    The best that can be argued about genes is the obvious point that any consideration of their actions is "self-interested".  Not because it provides any great insight, but because it is obvious that one cannot assign a behavior to something which requires it to have knowledge which it clearly can't have.  "Selfish genes" do not possess any information about the environment in which they are striving to be preserved, so therefore they cannot behave selfishly.  The only information they can possess is in the immediate vicinity of other genes.  Therefore whatever "selfish" behavior could exist would promote competition between genes within the same cell, but it would be absurd to suggest that the gene could compete with genes in a completely separate body. 
    It is clearly my fault in not being specific enough. I didn't mean substitute cooperative for selfish where it suits an argument but replace it completely. What would the argument be about today if the term selfish had never been used? That genes do not cooperate or contribute to the development of their host body!

    The theory should be that they do and, any research should be on the mechanism and drivers in their effective cooperation, that contributes to the success of their hosts in the environments they find themselves in.

    And, of course, they can have no direct knowledge of the environment in which the organism they reside within exists and it's clearly absurd to suggest that these genes could directly compete with genes in a completely separate body. I've not heard anyone suggest they have or do!

    Gerhard Adam
    ...it's clearly absurd to suggest that these genes could directly compete
    with genes in a completely separate body. I've not heard anyone suggest
    they have or do!
    But that's precisely what selfish gene "theory" does argue.  That bodies are simply vehicles to allow genes to propagate into the next generation.  The point of the phrase that Dawkins used was to argue that everything in natural selection occurs solely to advance the "interests" of the genes to propagate into future generations, hence their "selfishness".

    From Dawkins:

    Are there any plausible ways in which genes might 'recognize' their copies in other individuals.' ? The answer is yes. It is easy to show that close relatives--kin--have a greater than average chance of sharing genes. It has long been clear that this is why altruism by parents towards their young is so common.

    To save the life of a relative who is soon going to die of old age has less of an impact on the gene pool of the future than to save the life of an equally close relative who has the bulk of his life ahead of him.

    You can see that the concept of selfish is being used to bolster up "kin selection" as a means of explaining how a gene recognizes others.

    Steve Davis
    Rob, sorry about the name, I thought you might have been over-excited! If you want to know how Dawkins was totally wrong, go to P. 191 The Selfish Gene. He asked "What, after all, is so special about genes? The answer is that they are replicators." That is totally, hopelessly wrong, and it was on that fallacy that the book was based. Genes do not replicate. They are replicated by the cell. The lone gene is an imaginary concept, it does not exist.
    Gerhard Adam
    Both of the quotes indicated below are from Dawkins.

    I am happy to replace 'gene' with 'genetic replicator where there is any doubt.

    I said that I preferred to think of the gene as the fundamental unit of natural selection, and therefore the fundamental unit of self-interest. What I have now done is to *define* [Dawkins' emphasis] the gene in such a way that I cannot really help being right!
                    ....The Selfish Gene (1989) p.32
    The lone gene is an imaginary concept, it does not exist.

    Exactly, they have to function cooperatively to enable, not only the replication of themselves but the cells and all the other aspects of the successful body they find themselves in.

    You are right, genes do not operate as lone or separate entities and whether you call them genetic replicators or the fundamental units of natural selection is immaterial for that is what they are!

    The extent by which they are self-interested is tempered by their cooperative nature as any other practice would be counter-productive and without the variation brought about by competition for the same locus on a particular chromosome, together with some degree of mutation, natural selection and evolution would not have had the results we see around us.

    Nobody is saying that the selfish gene theory is the one and only absolute truth that explains all and every aspect of evolution through natural selection but, in my mind, it goes some of the way. It's a bit like Einstein's Theory of Relativity. It explains a whole lot but it's not the Theory of Everything.

    Gerhard Adam
    Well, that's actually my point.  The gene (or whatever you want to call it) is NOT the unit of natural selection.  It is strictly an agent of change without any knowledge or ability to "know" how things will work out.  Between the random variations of life (i.e. killed by a predator or falling off a cliff), to simply having no mate or being unattractive to a mate, these are all aspects of how natural selection will operate. 

    When it is all said and done, the only unit of selection that makes sense is the organism itself, since it must engage in the activities to survive as well as engage in the activities to mate.  This isn't to say that there aren't numerous critical roles that other biological agents play, but they are insufficient for the title of "unit of selection".

    It is all those efforts together, culminating in the organism that represents the unit of selection.  It would be like picking an automobile and saying that your choice was based solely on color, or on the tires, or on the doors.  In truth, it was probably all of those things together (especially the price) that would've played a role and to call any one of them the "unit of selection" would be incorrect.

    Even considering the "cooperative" efforts of "genes" within the described context is insufficient since the very nature of sexual reproduction requires a mixing of genetic material to be viable (in addition to a minimal population size).  This is completely the opposite of what a gene-centric view would suggest since that perspective says that the gene can only be interested in itself. 

    Similarly when the subject extends to social animals, it appears that it is often overlooked that even when we consider kin selection that is insufficient to maintain a species since it fails to provide viable mates.  Therefore, the only way a species can maintain itself is with a level of group selection (not exclusively) at play that ensures that no single member can be too successful and that overall the group will tend to average out in genetic materials to ensure the viability and ability to mate between future generations.  Anything else would lead to uncontrollable speciation (with the possibility of not having mates).  Part of the process that ensures this doesn't happen is that "genes" must "willingly" sacrifice themselves (I don't mean literally), to ensure that only half of them get propagated for sexual reproduction.  The concept itself can't work if selfishness is the driving mechanism (nor if "genes" are the units of selection). 
    Steve Davis
    Gerhard, your analogy of vehicle selection is excellent. Dawkins at one point tried to maintain the falsehood of gene selection by claiming that if all other traits are identical, the existence of one trait that confers a selection advantage will result in the selection of that trait. At best that is trait selection, not gene selection, as a gene does not constitute a trait. But in reality it is not even trait selection. The entity being selected is the organism, or in your case, the vehicle. A car buyer does not say "today I'll buy something red", then go and buy a red car. A car is selected for all its features, just as an organism is selected for all its features. Rob, gene selection is an illusion, and the whole intent of The Selfish Gene was to impart to genes a significance in evolution that they do not possess.
    Gene selection, trait seletion or whatever you care to call it is just semantics. What's a trait, what's a gene, where does they come from, how do they arise?

    Is it a body, is it a vehicle, is it an organism? I personally prefer vehicle ie a vehicle for the transmission of genes (there's another car analogy).

    If selection exists primarily at the organism level it sounds remarkably Larmarkian rather than what is understood by evolutionary biology. If it exists only at the organism level, where does the variation come from which enables these organisms to adapt to changing environmental, geographic conditions? Only by sexual reproduction and/or mutation?

    No, only by initial competition at the point of meiosis and re-combination brought together by sexual reproduction, mutation and then cooperatively building a body that, in the main, is well adapted but which may contain genetic traits conveying varying degrees of advantage or disadvantage making it able to survive successfully until itself gets the opportunity to reproduce. The ability to seize that opportunity itself a product of its own received genes, traits or whatever inherited at conception.

    After all is that not the purpose or is there one of a higher order at work?

    "...gene selection is an illusion, and the whole intent of The Selfish Gene was to impart to genes a significance in evolution that they do not possess".

    We'll just have to disagree on that one! If they have no significance in evolution, what is it they have any significance for, do or contribute? Are they just simple little inert vehicles or containers to carry genetic material from one body to the next?

    Steve Davis
    "We'll just have to disagree on that one!" Possibly not, Rob. Genes do have a significance in evolution, it's just that their role is secondary at best. The primary entity in evolution is the organism, and perhaps the next most significant is the population, for without the spread of a variation there is no evolution. But once we start talking of populations then we are forced to deal with group selection, something the gene-theorists cannot tolerate.
    Gerhard Adam
    If selection exists primarily at the organism level it sounds remarkably Larmarkian rather than what is understood by evolutionary biology. If it exists only at the organism level, where does the variation come from which enables these organisms to adapt to changing environmental, geographic conditions?
    The variation for each organism is determined by the genes.  No one is disputing their role in establishing the traits that an organism possesses.  Consequently the changes that organisms see are definitely determined in that fashion.

    However, "selection" can only occur at the organism level.  Organisms must mate.  There is no other means by which a "gene" can be propagated.  The "gene" cannot select who they pair with, only the organism can.  A "genes" expression cannot guarantee that it will be mated.

    In other words, it's like my example of the vehicle previously.  There is no question that it is the individual traits that play a role in what one decides to take, but ultimately it is the entire vehicle that is the unit of selection.

    In effect, a "genes" success can only occur well after the fact.  It would truly be Larmarkian if the gene could determine what traits would be selectable.  Therefore the gene expresses whatever it does and the organism determines whether it is something that is attractive enough to have the chance of being passed on.
    And how does the whole organism choose its mates? It picks by criteria which are cognitively hard-wired by its genes.

    Gerhard Adam
    It picks by criteria which are cognitively hard-wired by its genes.
    What does that mean?  Which genes?  What about the ones that aren't part of the "cognitive hard-wiring"?  How many genes are involved versus the total number that are expressed?   If a gene is turned off by another, does that count?

    What is the mechanism by which a gene recognizes that it may be passed on?  Is it more important to be passed on or to be expressed (i.e. recessive/dominant types of situations)?



    If a gene hard-wires a host's brain to recognize environmental signals, such as mating prospects, I'd call that an expressed gene.

    Gerhard Adam
    Sure ... works great for that ONE gene, but what about all the others? 
    It works for all the others by helping the host pick a mate. The one thing that really, ultimately matters is that a gene not get its host dead before procreating. Any given gene can just sit around doing nothing all day long, if it doesn't get in the way of the next generation.

    Gerhard Adam
    Exactly right, which makes my point.  By your own definition, the gene cannot be the unit of selection.  Organisms must take the whole package, so it is meaningless to argue that individual genes can act as individual units of selection.  Such a situation would cause competition between genes within an organism.

    Whether a gene is good or bad, expressed, or not, as you said, as long as the host can survive to reproduce then it can get passed on.  What determines if it gets passed on?  Whether the host (the full organism) mates and is found sexually attractive enough.  Therefore it is the organism that is ultimately the unit of selection which determines which genes have a chance to get passed to the next generation.  Genes are just along for the ride at that point.
    Gerhard Adam
    More importantly using terms like "hard-wired" are not particularly helpful, because you're not indicating what is being set as a criteria for recognition.   Specifically there is no evidence to suggest that our ideas of attractiveness are in the least bit hard-wired.  While general characteristics may be set as a criteria, there is far too much flexibility for it to be considered "hard-wired" in any meaningful way.
    No evidence? Please elaborate. I've just got to hear this one.

    Gerhard Adam
    Taking just humans as an example, give me one instance of a criteria for attractiveness that can absolutely NOT be compromised on or may never vary.  That would indicate "hard-wiring".  If your point is only that we have a general set of criteria that we might explore for suitability then it can hardly be argued that it is "hard-wired" in any way.

    In fact, it is easy to see that the vast majority of genetic expressions may not even show up in a manner which can be seen or easily determined, so to argue that this represents suitability for mating is rather arbitrary. 
    Gerhard Adam
    In truth, it can be argued that attractiveness is not genetically based at all, but rather is learned from the culture we are raised in. 
    Gerhard Adam
    Selfishness is a much abused term, since invariably what is being described is merely "self-interested".  However it does make it sound better for book titles.
    Gerhard Adam
    I think the way Trivers uses selfishness and studies it is quite bloody, as in fighting against each other for survival or priority.  He has talked about the mom's genes fighting the father's genes in the child in the womb and the child's body as they grow.  Supplant is probably more accurate then fight.
    This is precisely the problem with such explanations.  Even "competing" may be too strong a term, since it still implies some degree of intent.  Instead it would be more apt to consider a concept like waves (in physics) that can interact in a constructive or destructive interference pattern. 

    An analogy that I think is appropriate would be when one considers a basic product, like a car, or a recording.  There are numerous individuals each cooperating and even competing with one another, each responsible for bringing the product to the general market.  Designers and engineers putting together a new model car.  Producers, engineers, musicians, and artists putting together a new recording.  Each in effect, is fulfilling a role similar to the gene.  It is the expression of each of these individuals that results in the final product.

    However, in the end, it is the product that will survive or fail based on its appeal to the general population.  If it succeeds, then many of the ideas that went into it may well be used in future projects.  If it fails, then many of the original participants may have to change or be replaced by others.  While it's not a perfect analogy, I think it does illustrate the point that the means of production is obviously critical in producing a result, but it is the final "product" that must survive or fail on its own.  Only by that means does it vindicate the efforts of production.

    In that respect, each organism is the "product" of its genetic efforts.  However to characterize the genes as being selfish, or fighting, is incorrect since such a situation would ultimately result in the failure to produce the "product" (or organism).   Just as it wouldn't work in producing a car or a music record, neither would it produce a viable organism.
    the problem is not, wether genes are selfish (metaphorically or not) , cooperative (metaphorically or not), or neither of both. the problem is the gene itself. There is nothing as like "gene", see Evelyn Keller Fox "the century of the gene". While the gene is just a small idealization (with tremendous consequences), the meme is absolutely crazy nonsense, especially if referred to be a "thing" similar to genes. Just another "invention" of biologists going wild, not knowing about any philosophical model on signs, meaning, language. The concept of memes is unnecessary, self-contradictory, reductionist and even religious in some sense, it is neglecting the aspects of mediality, virtuality, empirical modeling and cognition (anticipation).

    Steve Davis
    Klaus, again I agree with you to a certain extent. It's clear that some people read too much into ideas and memes are no exception. I see the meme as being different from the average cultural concept in that it has the additional distinguishing feature of the "drive" to multiply, even to dominate. This is the case with some religions, some economic outlooks, and certainly with selfish gene theory. Selfish gene theory is showing signs of evolving to survive changing circumstances, just as some religions and economic outlooks have done. 
    MarshallBarnes
      “One reason that I am writing this series of blogs is because I am an idealist about science. I regard it as the best cultural system we have for holding people accountable for what they say. Scientists have a responsibility to keep track of the history of their ideas and to acknowledge mistakes from the past, no matter how large. Unfortunately, like religion, science as practiced often falls short of science as idealized. The group selection controversy is an embarrassment for science and the sooner its shortcomings are corrected, the better.”

    Wow! He stole the words right outta my head.
    Quote Steve Davis:
    “One reason that I am writing this series of blogs is because I am an idealist about science. I regard it as the best cultural system we have for holding people accountable for what they say. Scientists have a responsibility to keep track of the history of their ideas and to acknowledge mistakes from the past, no matter how large. Unfortunately, like religion, science as practiced often falls short of science as idealized. The group selection controversy is an embarrassment for science and the sooner its shortcomings are corrected, the better.”

    Very well expressed. It was good to read your article and the comments were interesting too. It was good to find other people who resist simplicistic views presented as valid theories (or theories presented as facts).