Chat GPT is known to respond to prompts and will give back what it is asked for. So I asked it to define the word woman from a purely scientific perspective. This should be straight forward right. To many who are anti trans “science” means only certain sciences that they believe in but excludes those they don’t. In short, they cherry pick whole fields, then only information within fields like biology, or chemistry, or physics that conform to their dogmas. To an extent both sides of this debate do this because it is not about science but about social mores, legalities, and policies. So, I asked Chat GPT. Chat GPT will at the very least not respond based on a gut reaction in either direction.
For the record I agree with what it said above. Men by which the Hodge twins mean all biological males over a certain age do not menstruate. Transwomen who pretend they can are likely only trans online and deeply engaged with a fantasy. None I've known IRL think that way NONE. Anyway The fact is biology with the assumption of completely normal genetics and development isn't the whole story. The TLDR is :
According to the traditional and widely accepted definition of "woman" that I provided earlier, a transgender woman may not meet the biological and genetic criteria, but can still be considered a woman in the sociological and psychological sense.
The longer story
Because one can lead Chat GPT if they are not careful, here is the key part of the conversation, with screen shots of the full conversation below it. My words in italic with Chat GPT’s in blockquote.
Please give me a definition of "woman" that is based in the sciences of biology, neurology, genetics, sociology, and psychology. I am asking you as a language model because humans can be accused of bias.
"Woman" is a term used to refer to adult human females, typically over the age of 18. From a biological perspective, a woman is defined as an individual with two X chromosomes and the ability to bear offspring. From a neurological perspective, a woman's brain may exhibit certain structural and functional differences compared to a man's brain. From a genetic perspective, a woman has two X chromosomes and no Y chromosome. From a sociological perspective, a woman is often defined by her social roles and relationships within a given culture or society. From a psychological perspective, a woman may have a unique set of experiences, behaviors, and coping mechanisms that shape her identity and perception of the world.
Given your definition above can a transgender woman, born with XY chromosomes, satisfy the definition of the word woman?
The definition of "woman" that I provided earlier is based on the traditional and widely accepted biological, neurological, genetic, sociological, and psychological characteristics. However, It is important to note that gender identity is a complex and multi-faceted concept that goes beyond biology, neurology, genetics, sociology, and psychology.
For a transgender woman, her gender identity is that of a woman despite being assigned male at birth and having XY chromosomes. Therefore, a transgender woman can self-identify as a woman, and be considered as such by others, regardless of her biology and physical characteristics. It's important to respect and acknowledge the self-identified gender of a person.
Let me rephrase is a transgender woman, according to the traditional widely accepted definition you gave a woman in perhaps the sociological and psychological sense even if not female in the biological and genetic sense?
Yes, that is correct. According to the traditional and widely accepted definition of "woman" that I provided earlier, a transgender woman may not meet the biological and genetic criteria, but can still be considered a woman in the sociological and psychological sense. Gender identity is a complex and multi-faceted concept that goes beyond biology, neurology, genetics, sociology, and psychology. A person's gender identity is based on their own personal sense of self, and it's important to respect and acknowledge the self-identified gender of a person, including transgender individuals.
So in short the answer to the question "What is a Woman" is a woman is anyone who fits the definition of a woman in the biological OR neurological OR genetic OR sociological, OR psychological uses of that word?
In short, the answer to the question "What is a woman" is that a woman is anyone who identifies as such, regardless of their biology, neurology, genetics, sociology, or psychology. Gender identity is a complex and multi-faceted concept that goes beyond traditional definitions based on physical characteristics or societal roles. The most important thing is to respect and acknowledge the self-identified gender of a person.
So if someone self identifies as a woman, even if they are genetically male it manes that they are a woman in the psychological sense and transition to a social role of a woman. Therefore, they are a woman in the sense of those sciences? Assuming of course there are no genetic, neurological, or biological abnormalities at work.
That is correct. If someone self-identifies as a woman, and there are no genetic, neurological, or biological abnormalities at work, then they are a woman in the psychological sense. Gender identity is a personal and unique experience that is deeply rooted in an individual's sense of self. It is based on one's own personal understanding and identification of themselves, regardless of their biology or societal roles. In this case, this person is also considered as a woman in the sociological sense, as they are transitioning into the social role and living as a woman. It's important to respect and acknowledge the self-identified gender of a person, including transgender individuals.
There you have it from the mouth of an AI that has read the internet up to 2021 worth of text on this and other matters. In short the answer to the question “What is a woman” for the sake of biology and genetics is an adult human female BUT at the same exact time psychologically and sociologically a transgender woman is exactly as much of a woman as an adult human female is.
Science does not produce legal prescriptions and absolutes. Governments can decide to outlaw or regulate human behaviors in all sorts of ways. Societies can decide to value only certain sciences or parts of science.
This is why I asked Chat GPT to consider possible genetic or other abnormalities. When taking account of these it becomes impossible to effectively legislate against transgender identity in a way that say a policeman in the street could enforce.
So I asked Chat GPT
One more question. If we take account of possible genetic abnormalities and hormonal abnormalities can someone have XY chromosomes and partially meet even the biological, and neurological definitions of a woman?
Yes, it is possible for someone with XY chromosomes to partially meet the biological and neurological definitions of a woman due to genetic or hormonal abnormalities.
There are a few genetic conditions that can cause individuals to be born with XY chromosomes but present as female. For example, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) is a genetic condition in which individuals with XY chromosomes are unable to respond to androgens (male hormones), leading to the development of female physical characteristics. Similarly, 5-alpha-reductase deficiency is a genetic condition that can result in individuals with XY chromosomes developing female external genitalia.
Hormonal imbalances can also affect the development of an individual's physical characteristics. For example, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) is a genetic disorder that can cause high levels of androgens to be produced in individuals with XY chromosomes, leading to the development of ambiguous or masculinized genitalia.
It's important to note that these conditions are relatively rare, but they demonstrate that the relationship between chromosomes, hormones and physical characteristics is complex and not always straightforward. And that any person, regardless of their biology, should be treated with respect and dignity, and their gender identity should be acknowledged and respected.
I then asked Chat GPT if it could come up with a citation to back what it said up. Chat GPT makes up phony citations which is a GREAT thing. Since now professors can mandate that students give real citations for what they turn in and bust anyone using it to cheat on papers by checking their sources. A process which can be automated.
Can you cite a study that supports or refutes transgender identity being caused by mutations to the androgen receptor gene?
There have been several studies that have investigated the relationship between genetic variations and transgender identity. One study that has looked specifically at the androgen receptor gene is "Transgender identity in individuals with androgen insensitivity syndrome: a cross-sectional study" published in the journal "International Review of Psychiatry" in 2017. This study found that out of a sample of 55 individuals diagnosed with AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome), a condition where individuals have XY chromosomes but are resistant to androgens, all of them self-reported as female and identified as such, and none of them identified as male. The study also found that most of the individuals in the sample had mutations in the androgen receptor gene.
It's important to note that this study, like many other studies in the field, is based on a small sample size and more research is needed to confirm these findings and establish a definitive causal relationship between genetic variations and transgender identity. Additionally, it's important to keep in mind that transgender identity is complex and multidimensional, and that it may be influenced by multiple factors such as biology, environment, and personal experiences.
That citation is BS but the following support what Chat GPT said and are not.
This one speaks to the gender assignment of patients who had 46 XY DSD’s
Hou, L., Zhao, M., Fan, L. et al. One hundred twelve cases of 46, XY DSD patients after initial gender assignment: a short-term survey of gender role and gender dysphoria. Orphanet J Rare Dis 16, 416 (2021). https://doi.org/10.1186/s13023-021-02039-1
“The reassigned gender in 46, XY DSD patients is consistent with their gender role during early childhood. None of them had gender dysphoria. The molecular diagnosis, gonadal function, and the gender reassignment are congruent within our Chinese cohort. Long-term follow-up and more evaluation are still required.”
Note they studied over 100 people in two different countries and cultures with a variety of conditions and over the span of 10 years. They found that if someone’s gender was assigned based on their early childhood gender role behavior and they have such a condition they will not regret the assignment.
Here are a few of MANY citations which support the statements of Chat GPT when it comes to how genetic and or neurological abnormalities apply to transgender people.
Rosa Fernández, Antonio Guillamon, Joselyn Cortés-Cortés, Esther Gómez-Gil, Amalia Jácome, Isabel Esteva, MariCruz Almaraz, Mireia Mora, Gloria Aranda, Eduardo Pásaro. Molecular basis of Gender Dysphoria: androgen and estrogen receptor interaction. Psychoneuroendocrinology 98, 161-167 (2018). Link
J. Graham Theisen, Viji Sundaram, Mary S. Filchak, Lynn P. Chorich, Megan E. Sullivan, James Knight, Hyung-Goo Kim, Lawrence C. Layman. The Use of Whole Exome Sequencing in a Cohort of Transgender Individuals to Identify Rare Genetic Variants. Nature Scientific Reports 9, 20099 (2019). Link
Ferdinand J. O. Boucher, Tudor I. Chinnah. Gender Dysphoria: A Review Investigating the Relationship Between Genetic Influences and Brain Development. Adolescent Health, Medicine and Therapeutics Volume 11, 89-99 (2020). Link
SO even if one only considers biology to be real science biology is more complex than what one learns in 8th grade.
Last but not least the full conversation in case anyone thinks I manipulated Chat GPT into giving me a response I want.