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    Playing God
    By Gerhard Adam | July 29th 2012 03:41 PM | 23 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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    I recently came across an article entitled "Synthetic biology: 'playing God' is vital if we are to create a better future for all".  

    As you can imagine, the article itself is primarily focused on the advance of science and the counter-arguments that are often viewed as being "anti-science".  Many of the comments support this view by arguing that we have been "playing God" since we domesticated the first animal, or planted the first food plant (1).

    One of the primary issues is what this phrase of "playing God", actually means and the article addresses that point (2).

    "Detractors use the phrase "playing God" to provoke emotive opposition without defining what it is about synthetic biology that is qualitatively different to the previous advances that they enjoy and benefit from every day. Should we go back to the time before humans started playing God through their development of sanitation, vaccines and measures to counter widespread child mortality?" (3)

    "If playing God involves developing technologies that cure diseases, clean up pollution and create new forms of fuel, then these potential benefits need to be considered without the burden of vague, simplistic soundbites."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/27/synthetic-biology-playing-god-vital-future

    So, the general perspective here is that "playing God" is necessary for our future, and that we may actually have a moral obligation to pursue it.  

    In my view, we need to stop "playing God" and face the real issues of what it means to "be God".  Let's stop dancing around the subject here, because "playing" obviously implies that we aren't particularly competent to be God, so, like children, we are merely playing at it. To stop playing we need to identify what this concept of "God" actually involves, because we seem to be focusing solely on accomplishments, and despite how scientifically or technologically marvelous they may be, they aren't necessarily relevant when it comes to the concept of being a "God".

    What kinds of things does "God" engage in?  One obvious answer is in distinguishing between "right" and "wrong", or more specifically;  justice.  It would be easy to dismiss this as being too philosophical or the domain of religion, but that's precisely the point.  With advances in technology that provide "God-like" qualities, then each usage, each application of such technology involves addressing questions of "right" and "wrong".  Ethical considerations are no longer simply a matter of convenience or abstraction.

    As a thought experiment, consider our ability to cure disease.  If we lack that ability, then everything is in the "hands of God" or nature, because we are unable to affect the outcome in any material way.  Therefore we are not responsible for the outcome.  Suppose now that we can unequivocally cure this disease, but it is a quite expensive process in terms of resources and skills.  Do we have a criteria for determining if an individual can receive such treatment?  We now have to face making the decision about who should live and who should die; who benefits, who is denied.  In short, our ability to cure the disease is dwarfed by our responsibility in deciding how that ability should be used. We can certainly employ idealistic arguments about how such advances will benefit all of humanity, but we can already see our failures in delivering something as simple as food.  

    Previously we could acknowledge that we were powerless to affect the outcome, but when we can control the outcome, then we have a responsibility to make those types of decisions. That is what it means to "play God" and why many people are concerned about how those choices will be made in the future.    

    One of the overriding themes in many views of God is that ultimately God is "just".  This is the one trait that humans can count on, in that justice will ultimately be served.  Ironically among humans we believe that "power corrupts" and "absolute power corrupts absolutely", and yet such a condition is not applied to God.  Yet there is no reason to believe that with increased knowledge or technical abilities, human ethics will mature accordingly.  

    Another concept of God has always been based on the idea that no matter what happens, every individual would be judged and "rewarded" based on their true value, the kind of people they were in life and not based on money, political connections, popularity, appearance, or the myriad number of other criteria that humans use.  So, before we get too confident in our ability to emulate God, by invoking some pre-technological era and claim how we are now countering "widespread child mortality", let's be honest with ourselves and recognize that the majority of human deaths on this planet are already preventable and fully within human hands to stop.  So, instead of arguing about some future where we can "play God".  Why not begin with what we can do now?  We already know how to stop starvation.  We already know what it takes to be non-violent.  We already know about the causes of wars.  We already know about sanitation and clean water.  

    So, if we can't actually achieve all of these things when we already have the knowledge, are we also still waiting for some "miracle"?  Where is the science?  Where is the technology that will solve those problems?  If we can't deploy the "solutions" we've developed then we truly are just playing at being Gods and perhaps we aren't nearly as ready for the future as we imagine.

    In the end, while we can blithely talk about how much humans have achieved and make the appropriate noises about "playing God", when it is all said and done, perhaps we should be a bit more humble and recognize that our success isn't simply a matter of how clever we are, but rather how ethical and humane.  It is then that we may be in a position to truly talk about "being Gods" instead of merely being chimpanzees with unrestrained power.

    ======================
    (1) Of course, by that argument, then we could also claim that beavers are "playing God" when they construct dams, as well as any animal that modifies its environment.  In general, it's a silly comparison.

    (2) Note that the purpose of this discussion is not to engage in a religious discussion of God, but rather to explore what we mean by the concept when it is employed in this manner.  As a result, none of the comments here are intended to define or constrain possible interpretations of what individuals may believe within their own religious contexts.

    (3)  It is almost humorous how humans love to take credit for things like sanitation, despite the fact that every other living creature on this planet seems to have no particular difficulty in understanding it.  However, it does point to one particular aspect of science and technology that is also frequently ignored, which is that many of the "problems" we are attempting to solve are completely of our own making.  In other words, they aren't intrinsic problems of survival, but rather problems that have surfaced as a result of our particular way of wanting to do things. 

    Comments

    vongehr
    They mean the creator god, otherwise it could mean to dictate nonsense books and mutilating innocent people in horrible ways, and we are already experts in those areas - no playing there. "Creating" should imply universes (environments) or say living, conscious entities. That is what we start playing with right now, say inside silicone based substrates like computers.

    Else, it is about mentioning "god" because it draws readers almost as well as boobsies.
    Gerhard Adam
    Creation without ethics is meaningless.  That's the point I'm trying to get at, because as you've mentioned ... we've clearly demonstrated our creativity in all manner of destructive activities.  We have few problems in demonstrated equal opportunity destruction.  It's the construction side that we seem to have more problems with.

    In another sense, the question is also somewhat rhetorical, because it is a convenient phrase to issue with respect to scientific development, but it's a phrase that should also remind us of more far-reaching consequences and considerations when we rush into new technologies.
    Richard King
    “What kinds of things does "God" engage in.”

    Everything; that is the point. It could be no other way. Everything we all engage in and far more besides, though that only becomes apparent with understanding of the nature of that which is referred to as God.

    “One obvious answer is in distinguishing between "right" and "wrong", or more specifically; justice.”

    That answer may seem obvious but, at the God level, there is no right or wrong. Such matters are human derived values that vary with time, culture and other things.

    “It would be easy to dismiss this as being too philosophical or the domain of religion, but that's precisely the point. With advances in technology that provide "God-like" qualities, then each usage, each application of such technology involves addressing questions of "right" and "wrong". Ethical considerations are no longer simply a matter of convenience or abstraction.”

    They may seem God-like but that is assumption, perception, illusion.

    As Adam Rutherford writes in the Guardian article to which you refer,

    “The ability to design and build biological systems provides a new way to understand how living things work, yet the field is much more about engineering than it is about pure science. However, many synthetic biologists are seeking to solve problems in more efficient ways than traditional engineering does, with potential applications ranging from fighting pollution and cancer to manufacturing fuel and drugs.”

    Adam Rutherford is almost as lost in his perception of engineering as he is in God related matters, although, in a way, there is a connection between the two. Creation with responsibility is much more the domain of engineers than it is of scientists.

    For a start, there is far more to life than biology.

    I would not accuse scientists of playing God because they have no chance of doing so, at least not as scientists as opposed to their basic entity “status”; thinking they can, attempting to, perhaps, but doing it, no way. Even if scientists created a physical universe, they would still be far short, in part because the physical universe, of which we are aware, is only a small percentage of what Is (capitalisation deliberate), as already hinted at by “dark matter”, “dark energy”, theories of multiverses, etc.

    Besides, in a way we are all “playing God” because that is the purpose of what Is. Scientists are not a special case, much as many of them like to think they are. In practice, many are better at “playing God” than scientists because scientists are going in the wrong direction in that sense. Therein lays one of the problems of assuming levels of knowledge and ability that are not actually possessed. Quite apart from which, without the very considerable support of engineers and technologists scientists could almost nothing compared with that which they claim for themselves.

    Fairly obviously, I am writing this with more than just my science “hat” on and the other one is not a religious one; at this stage, in this physical lifetime, I am past the need of any religion whether it be theistic, atheistic, scientist, or whatever. (Along with others, my view of that which constitutes a religion is not restricted to theism.)

    “(2) Note that the purpose of this discussion is not to engage in a religious discussion of God, but rather to explore what we mean by the concept when it is employed in this manner. As a result, none of the comments here are intended to define or constrain possible interpretations of what individuals may believe within their own religious contexts.”

    Understood, but, by using such terminology, certain people are on the brink of making ridiculous comparisons and bringing in concepts that they do not understand. There are limits to my understanding of “higher level matters” and I recognise them; that, in general terms, is one of the differences between being an engineer and a scientist, at least the rather arrogant type of mainstream scientist, which seems to be rather common these days, whereas a similar attitude in engineering invites disaster. On the other hand, I am aware that my knowledge in that particular area exceeds that of many other people, especially those of a materialist disposition and similar, while concurring with that of certain other people, some far more aware than I.
    Stellare
    The human factor always trumphs science and technology.  We, the humans, are able to solve all the problems we have, practically speaking. It is the human factor, the interrelationships between humans that messes things up.

    Mentioning God is another way of refering to the human factor. God is created by humans to regulate how we as species act.

    We do not play God, we play with God (the concept we created in the first place), if anything.
    Bente Lilja Bye is the author of Lilja - A bouquet of stories about the Earth
    Gerhard Adam
    Yes, that's certainly true, but it also serves as a focal point for the concerns that people feel when power becomes too concentrated in one individual or groups.  At that point they are said to be capable of "playing God". 

    It is that aspect of it that needs to be examined, because no scientist should ever feel comfortable with the perception that the public views them as being "God-like", or capable of wielding such power.  The fact that the author of the original article used that common phrase to reflect how science may be perceived, indicates a serious disconnect in communicating science to the public.

    I realize that he was also using it in the derogatory sense where people that share "anti-science" views may use it to accuse scientists of screwing around with nature.  Yet, the response shouldn't be that we need to do it for our future, but rather it should be a signal that we need to communicate the science better.

    It's like the discussion about GMO foods ... you can tell that someone isn't really coming clean about it.  I'm not suggesting that it is unsafe or dangerous, or that there's something sinister going on regarding the science of modifying the genes.  It's something else.  In the economics or in the politics... there's a lie being told here and it's hard to figure out precisely where it is.

    How do I know?  The salesmanship is much too strident for a problem that doesn't appear to need solving in a country like the U.S.  
    Stellare
    Yes, this God metaphor is being used in various ways.

    Like, 'Oh my God!' hahaha

    Seriously, understanding that it is the systems and not individual/small groups of scientists that have powers is a good point.

    I am not so sure that communicating science better will help though...
    Bente Lilja Bye is the author of Lilja - A bouquet of stories about the Earth
    rholley
    Bente,

    the concept we created in the first place
    That sounds to me like what I call concoctionism, the view that earlier people somehow ‘invented’ God, as an instrument of social control for example.

    Since “no one has seen God”, he cannot be the object of scientific investigation.  However, dealing with things that are, in principle at least, observable, it is far more likely that ideas of God arose, and people acted accordingly.

    To take a specific case, in the time of Sir Isaac Newton, it was not only the great man himself who sought to de-Trinitarianize Christianity.  They thought that, because it had been orthodoxy since the time of Constantine, that somehow the doctrine was thought up for imperial advantage.

    However, Trinitarian thinking arose earlier under very adverse circumstances.  I could continue, but for now let us have a break, and enjoy

    What Vikings really looked like


    from Science Nordic.
    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    Stellare
    Robert,

    Science Nordic is a good science site, but when I read about Danish vikings every nerve in my body protest. hahaha

    The danes are 'continental' to us real vikings. Besides, I just read the other day about the vikings in Ireland. The locals were not too happy with the (real) vikings and went to the British and Danes to get rid of my ancestors. Plus, they exploited us for more than 400 years later. No, danes are no real vikings. :-D. It is too warm and too flat down there.

    PS. I love the Danes and Denmark no matter what nonsense they come up with and present as history. ;-)

    In return, the danes call us mountain monkeys....go figure! haha
    Bente Lilja Bye is the author of Lilja - A bouquet of stories about the Earth
    rholley
    How about this?

    User:Inselaffe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    HedgehogFive
    I think you have seen this before, but if the Danes say such things then this is most appropriate:




    Charles Darwin is taking a walk in a zoo.  Suddenly, he espies a most unhappy-looking chimpanzee in a cage.  Being a kindly man, he goes up to it and makes enquiry.

    "What ails you, my good ape?" he asks.

    "It's all right for you, mate" replies the chimp, lugubriously.  "Your ancestors voted to leave the Evolutionary Union!"


    Omar Chedda
    Why not begin with what we can do now? We already know how to stop starvation. We already know what it takes to be non-violent. We already know about the causes of wars. We already know about sanitation and clean water

     Ay, there's the rub. Quoting myself, "This has to do with the institutional structures and social relations which exacerbate imbalances rather than lead to the solution, and which constrain and shape the further development of productive forces in ways which are not always progressive."  Here we enter oceans of self-deception where we either drown or swim to the shore on the other side.

    ...perhaps we should be a bit more humble and recognize that our success isn't simply a matter of how clever we are, but rather how ethical and humane.

    I couldn't agree with you more.  Our technological success created the basis for modern ethics and humaneness, as limited as this may still be, and it is this developing consciousness which must guide future technological development.  Of course, this will be easier said than done.
    Gerhard Adam
    In truth, some of these comments were rhetorical, in that it doesn't particularly matter what the problem is.  The fact that it exists at all, should be fair warning to any claims about future utopias.

    So, in one respect, my point is that when a scientist begins to explain how a particular discovery, or research, or technology is going to solve the problems of the world or improve humanity ... he's engaging in salesmanship and not science; and we already have too many salesmen.

    I always find it fascinating that while scientists are often accused as "Playing God" by people of specific religious persuasions, these same people don't seem to have much problem with the sacred texts of their religions also being written by human beings. The argument presented is usually in the form that these enlightened authors have been guided by the "hands of God". If they believe this to be so, why do they think that scientists are also not guided in their actions directly by "God". I am not really suggesting that scientists are merely the puppets of a divine entity, but rather that the speciest argument that scientists are "Playing God" should not really be a factor in the decision of how researchers should conduct their work. Even the use of terminology such as "good science" projects religious overtones as the opposite of "good" is "evil". As members and beneficiaries of broad communities, scientists have a responsibility to ensure that their work contributes to the greater well being of the humans and the other creatures on this planet.

    Omar Chedda

    The rationale for scientific research in a world of scarce resources is to solve problems.  Of course, we don't all have the same problems depending on where we are located in the social hierarchy, so some problems will get more attention than others in the scheme of things depending on how resources are controlled and managed.

    The spokespersons for the institutional structure served by the scientists will find it necessary to justify areas of focus and spending to maintain public and political support.  This is definitely salesmanship as you have described. In order to democratize this process, the public, or those who are interested, need to put in place the necessary measures that will allow the final outcomes to bring the greatest benefits to the largest numbers of people.

    rholley
    Thank you, Gerhard, for such a clear article.

    Regarding Sascha’s outburst, obviously he is very angry about something.  Since I cannot engage such an angry person, I will instead present you all with this cute German poem, about a cat’s dream:

    Katzentraum!

    Original source here.

    Ich hab’ die Nacht geträumet 
    wohl einen schönen Traum:
    es wuchs in meinem Garten
    ein großer grauer Baum.

    Die Früchte waren Mäuschen,
    die fiepten vor sich hin,
    sie wuchsen an den Zweigen,
    verwirrten mir den Sinn.

    Ich setzte mich darunter
    mit einem großen Topf,
    da schissen mir die Mäuschen
    von oben auf den Kopf.

    Mit Zorn tat ich ergrimmen
    ob solcher Niedertracht.
    Den Baum wollt’ ich erklimmen,
    da bin ich aufgewacht.

    I dreamed in the night
    Such a beautiful dream:
    There grew in my garden
    A large grey tree.

    The fruits were little mice,
    That were squeaking to each other,
    They grew on the branches,
    My senses were all befuddled.

    I sat down underneath them
    With a large pot,
    Then the little mice shat
    From up there onto my head.

    My wrath did wax hot
    Over such an underhand trick.
    I would have climbed up the tree,
    But then I woke up.

    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    Stellare
    What a bitter-sweet catdream. :-D
    Bente Lilja Bye is the author of Lilja - A bouquet of stories about the Earth
    Gerhard Adam
    Thank you Robert.  I didn't get a chance to reply earlier, but I find in this poem a welcome perspective. :)

    My German is very rusty, so I always find it useful to review it with little interludes like this.
    Bonny Bonobo alias Brat

    Great article Gerhard and very thought provoking, as was the article that you linked to which mentioned the Greek titan Prometheus, who definitely seems to be very relevant to this discussion.

    Prometheus, a titan in Greek mythology, stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans. His punishment was to be bound to a rock, have his liver plucked out by an eagle and regrown overnight, so that his ordeal could be played out repeatedly. The idea – and the negative connotations – of humans acquiring god-like powers is culturally embedded in legends such as this.

    Similarly the tree of knowledge and Adam and Eve apparently disobeying God's instructions to not eat the apple, the tree of knowledge's forbidden fruit, after supposedly being tempted by Satan, also seems quite relevant here. This 'tree of knowledge' is referenced in many religions and according to Theosophical teachings..

    ...eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the point in evolution when humanity acquired a mind and self-consciousness. This made human beings recognize themselves as individuals, symbolized by Adam and Eve becoming aware of their nakedness. Being expelled from Eden is a symbol of the fact that, by acquiring a mind, humanity steps outside the realm of animals, which are taken care of by Nature. Human beings now have to work to build shelter and to get food. Besides now having the ability to distinguish between good and evil, humans became responsible for their actions. In this view, being expelled from Eden is the natural result of evolution and not a punishment, and a necessary step to awaken the spiritual consciousness through self-directed efforts. 

    The article that Gerhard linked to also claimed that :-

    Detractors use the phrase "playing God" to provoke emotive opposition without defining what it is about synthetic biology that is qualitatively different to the previous advances that they enjoy and benefit from every day. Should we go back to the time before humans started playing God through their development of sanitation, vaccines and measures to counter widespread child mortality?

    In my opinion we should definitely not go back (and probably can't) but this does not mean that we should blindly surge forward with these revolutionary new technologies, not learning from our past mistakes. We do need to have extensive public dialogues and carefully and scientifically test everything before it is released into our often delicately balanced environments, unlike the many other terrible mistakes that we have made in the past, like introducing the cane toads into Australia to control pests and introducing other disastrous feral species for example without adequate scientific testing. All of which has had devastating, irreversible effects upon the Australian environment and the many rapidly going extinct species, that have been around for hundreds of thousands of years until we destroyed them. 

    There will be very few aspects of our lives that will remain untouched by synthetic biology. Advancing technology is not risk-free, and needs to be regulated, understood and, if necessary, curtailed. But those decisions need to be made as part of informed public conversations about the relative risks and benefits. The opportunities are too great for synthetic biology to be written off with fear-mongering maxims...Only with engaged and rational public discussions about what a technology such as synthetic biology means, and what it can and can't achieve, can we harness it to create a better future.

    Which brings me to my own pet rat grievance about Bt GMOs and the amazing, recent scientific evidence and studies that show that rats (and other animals) eating Bt GMO corn, even in the short term, eat more and become fatter than rats eating non Bt GMO corn, and the ongoing general lack of engaged and informed rational public discussions and easily available scientific evidence and studies to support the long term effects of what some of these technologies such as eating Bt GMOs that contain Bt insecticides and/or cry toxins and other synthetic biologies could be having on the animals and people already eating them.

    On other Science20 GMO supporting blogs here and here I have repeatedly asked GMO scientists for evidence from scientific studies that Bt GMOs do not cause significant or adverse effects upon animals internal organs, they have not been able to provide me with anything other than ONE study that showed that sheep eating Bt GMO cotton for only 30 days, showed no adverse effects upon their internal organs. Well humans don't eat Bt cotton but we do eat Bt GMOs for over a decade now.There is however plenty of scientific evidence and data showing that eating Bt GMO's can have significant and/or short and long term adverse effects upon animals organs.

    So where is the rational public discussion and readily available scientific evidence to support GMO proponents claims that eating these Bt GMOs which are full of Bt insecticides in every cell of the plant, that cannot be washed off like the old spray insecticides, designed to specifically kill the target insects that prey upon these GMO crops, is not making people or animals fat or damaging or having significant effects upon their organs in the short or the long term? How do we know that this study showing that Americans are much sicker that the Brits, is not being caused by the fact that they have been eating unlabelled Bt GMOs for over a decade now?

    Make love not war
    Gerhard Adam
    One point I would caution is in referencing the "Tree of Knowledge".  In fact it is the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". 

    The reason I'm pointing out the distinction is that the former phrase is often used to argue that this represents man's intellectual maturity or acquisition of knowledge.  In fact, the point in the story of Genesis is to argue that it actually marks man's loss of innocence whereby he suddenly acquired a sense of right and wrong.

    In fact, there is a very interesting story that indicates that this sense of "right" and "wrong" is actually an illusion because it is knowledge that is only available to the gods.  However, in having eaten from this tree, man now believes himself to possess that knowledge.  It is for this reason that humans were expelled from the Garden of Eden, because there was a second tree ["The Tree of Life"] which the gods feared if man ate of, the humans would also become immortal.

    22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
    Genesis 3: 22-24
    rholley
    a very interesting story that indicates that this sense of "right" and "wrong" is actually an illusion because it is knowledge that is only available to the gods.
    How to you get that from the narrative itself?

    Also, “gods”?  (Not referring to the gallery at a theatre or music hall, of course.)  Here in Hebrew the subject is singular, but even where the apparently plural “Elohim” is used, the verb is singular.
    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    Gerhard Adam
    Robert

    I was referring to a story [Ishmael by Daniel Quinn] that makes those references. 
    rholley
    While we’re on the theme of God and justice, you might find

    Reflections on the Psalms by C.S. Lewis, ISBN 015676248X

    quite interesting.  Still keeping to the religious theme, this is from Heinz Erhardt:

    Bei Opa

    Der Opa ist ein frommer Mann
    und liest in seiner Bibel.
    Die Oma schneidet nebenan
    fürs Abendbrot die Zwiebel.
    der Opa ist ein frommer Mann
    und weint ob seiner Sünden.
    Auch Omama weint nebenan,
    jedoch aus andern Gründen!


    At Grandpa’s

    Grandpa is a pious man
    and reads his Bible.
    In the next room grandma is cutting
    some onions for supper.
    Grandpa is a pious man
    and weeps over his sins.
    Grandma is also crying in the next room,
    However, for other reasons!




    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England
    I talked to God and it wanted me to tell you.
    You spend so much time here with these souls but none with the three you helped bring forth.
    You try to relieve their pain or forever feel it.
    Your time is running out and chances are few.