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    When Amateurs Get Published
    By Tommaso Dorigo | February 7th 2010 02:47 AM | 24 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Tommaso

    I am an experimental particle physicist working with the CMS experiment at CERN. In my spare time I play chess, abuse the piano, and aim my dobson...

    View Tommaso's Profile
    This just in: Carl Brannen (here his blog) got a paper on gravitation published in a scientific magazine. Carl, who is the typical amateur who many "established scientists" in the blogosphere have labeled a crackpot in the last few years, does not actually fit the bill very well: he is a deep thinker who knows the literature of what he studies, and the fact that he is not salaried by a research institute means as little as this: he does it for Science, and not for a pay.

    Some of the articles that Carl has written in the last few years have struggled to get even past the mesh of the Cornell Arxiv's screening; some have been diverted to the Limbo category of "general physics", which collects stuff nobody actually reads. But this last paper he wrote not only received a honorable mention of the Gravity Research Foundation: it actually made it in print, on the International Journal of Modern Physics.

    I have written it repeatedly in the past: ideas are never crackpotty: they are just good, or bad. The style of approach of an amateur to scientific research may be dilettantesque or rigorous, but what matters is whether the ideas he or she brings to the floor are sound. In Carl's case, they are. His paper is a significant advancement in the field of classical gravitation. Congratulations, Carl! I foresee that this year you will publish more than Lubos.

    Comments

    Congratulations, Carl!

    What you say is true, Tommaso. If Albert Einstein tried to publish his special and general theories of relativity today, he wouldn't even be considered as a patent clerk, third class. Sometimes I think we're moving backwards.
    Tommaso,

    I would not call Carl an "amateur" but a serious physicist who works outside the mainstream. Unfortunately, Carl's example is far from being unique, there are many other contributors (myself included) who are not employed in the academia, do research for the sake of science and are consistently ignored even when publishing in well respected journals. It is unfortunate that this dismissive attitude (partly promoted by Arxiv policies) has become the norm when it comes to advancing new ideas in theoretical physics.

    Regards,

    Ervin Goldfain

    dorigo
    Ervin,

    the distinction is made by the fact of earning one's income by the science one does. I beg you to forgive my English for not finding a better word than "amateur"... "Dilettante" is okay but has a slant I do not like. Your suggestion is welcome.

    Cheers,
    T.
    Tommaso,

    Yes, it is not always easy to find the appropriate word for a given context. I'm thinking that "independent" is a better choice than "amateur" when describing Carl and others that are in the same boat with him.

    Cheers,

    Ervin

    dorigo
    See, I like "independent" better than "amateur", but it also has some unwanted slant. The fact is, many theorists are independent although they are salaried, in the sense that they decide what to do research on. But I'll take it.
    T.
    Actually, I prefer 'amateur' if one remembers its Latin roots, thus meaning doing something for the shear love of it.
    Tommaso,

    I was prevented from getting on the Arxiv after my work was published, and after it had been hosted at CERN for years. No reason ever given.

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/k748qg033wj44x11/

    http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/688763

    Also, I am not an amateur - I was trained like any other physicist, I just don't have much stomach for academia.

    -drl

    lumidek
    I think that this is your service against science, Tommaso. You may like Carl, I like him, too. But both of us know that what he wrote is complete flapdoodle. It just goes against the very basic principles of science - and the scientific integrity - to promote flapdoodle if you know that it is one. Science's most fundamental procedure is, on the contrary, about the elimination of the wrong stuff....

    Of course that I am not going to publish. I don't want the key ideas to be treated on par with complete garbage or worse. The world today is filled with people like you who promote nonsense and kick into gold - because you think it is the right politically correct thing to do. With my passion for the truth, I just can't stand such things. You're doing all these things because you are a far left radical. This is just wrong. And I even think that as a conservative, Carl knows it is wrong, too. 

    You should be ashamed, Tommaso.

    Although I am far away from this world's direct impact on me, I am still frightened by the way how the important ideas are being treated, overlooked, or sometimes directly hated and trash-talked by the people who surround science - like yourself. Take some above-average recent example - David Berenstein's and his undergraduate student's paper about the emergence of geometry in matrix models with 6 matrices.

    Now, this is something. It is about a real phenomenon where we kind of "know" that something of the sort is really taking place, it is fascinating, it is about the way how geometry and/or gravity really emerge, and they want to put the pieces together, using a computer - which are almost certainly being "under-exploited" by the high-energy theoretical community. The undergraduate student is amazing that he can work on such things - he clearly has to be able not only to work with the computers but he must have mastered the AdS/CFT correspondence better than e.g. you, Tommaso.

    It's all cool, but that's exactly what people like you don't like. You hate the idea that some people are *genuinely* better than you, and they have results that are more important than anything you have ever achieved and anything you will ever achieve in your life. You love to promote nonsense and unimportant stuff because this is your "politeness" service that helps you feel better - you are not worse than Carl, after all, and he will be grateful, and you may feel as a good person who has helped a person "crushed" by the scientific establishment. At the same moment, you have no passion for the results that are really important, for the insights that really make sense and that are deep.

    Meanwhile, David Berenstein's and his student's work - and hundreds of other real promising papers - would never be discussed outside his preprint and the "fourth floors" of the top departments of physics, even though - in principle - undergraduate students can understand this stuff. One of them co-authored it. Even his blog won't help him.

    You express some compassion for Carl who is being crushed by the scientific establishment. Except that Carl's work is being crushed or ignored by the scientific "establishment" for a very good reason. What he writes makes no sense. You, Tommaso, are the most despicable and dangerous combination of the anti-scientific P.R. haters because you combine an ignorant whose knowledge of physics, at least theoretical physics, is weaker than that of the knowledge of David Berenstein's undergraduate students - and you are also eager to promote wrong stuff for the sake of "balance" and "justice" - which is a result of your far-left radical political delusions that contradict the very basic principles of science.

    But real science is cruel. It is not a democracy between correct results and wrong results. It is not a democracy between people who find out correct things and those who can only find and write rubbish that only gets published because the system always has to fail at some points, especially if politically active bloggers like you help it to fail all the time.

    Paper

    Let me just mention a typical excerpt of Carl's paper:

    "In making these sorts of arguments, we must recognize that we cannot assume that the velocity of the gravitons involved is the same as the speed of light. In particular, in GP coordinates, a particle falling through the event horizon exceeds the speed of light (that is, |r˙| > 1). Gravitons capable of producing such a force must also exceed the speed of light. Such a theory would have gravity waves also travel faster than light. The experimental measurement of the speed of gravity is a subject much discussed in the physics literature. The mainstream view is that the speed has not yet been measured."

    Holy crap, you don't really believe that this stuff is deep, do you? This is just pure rubbish. It's the kind of stuff that undergraduate students should be kicked out of the school if they say it during a physics exam. It's just complete bullshit.

    The speed of gravitons is the speed of light. In fact, the "genuine" speed called "c" that enters relativity is the speed of gravitons. It's a well-known facts that gravitons  are those that really move by the maximum speed while photons (light) can sometimes be forced by the environment (such as a two-form B-field) to move by lower speeds. Speeds that are "superluminal" are a direct contradiction with relativity. Claiming that such things are "normal" and just a matter of "not settled experiment tests" etc. is a proof that the author has no idea even about high-school special relativity.

    At the same moment, the paper is combining completely naive pictures from classical physics with some jargon that the author captured in presentations of quantum mechanics - but he hasn't understood them. For example, he says that the electric force follows an "exact inverse square law" just a few sentences above the quote I have already mentioned. Nevertheless, he attributes this force to virtual photons.

    However, when virtual photons are being considered, he must clearly consider quantum theory, and in quantum theory, the electric force actually doesn't follow the exact 1/r^2 law. The fine-structure constant is inevitably running. So Carl has no clue about the effects that manifestly exist and that are connected with the deep principles of physics as it actually works - quantum electrodynamics, in this case - while he is randomly inventing lots of phenomena (superluminal speeds of gravitons) that manifestly cannot work, and uses wrong and foggy arguments to defend the indefensible.

    Of course that if he is sending this garbage to all journals he can think of, it must eventually be published in a journal, probably a low-quality journal like the International Something or whatever the name is. But that doesn't mean that it's correct. It's clear that by sending stuff around, the author may increase the probability that it gets published. If getting published is the ultimate goal, it works.

    But the purpose of the actual science - as you, Tommaso, clearly misunderstand yourself - is not to get published. The goal is to find correct explanations of Nature which "amateur physicists" who build on spamming journals - rather than learning from mistakes and others and the elimination of falsified hypotheses - are simply extremely unlikely to achieve, and in specific cases, once we look at the papers, we know that they haven't achieved it.

    Once again, your celebration of the failures of the system to separate the seeds from weeds is disgraceful and dangerous, Tommaso.

    dorigo
    Lubos, that is pathetic. I do not hate anybody or anything, especially the good science. I admire those who do scientific research despite the fact that they do not get a salary for it. What science is and what it is not, is above my head as much as is about yours. Peer review is a fundamental tool in the progress of the "good" science, but it is perfectible. In fact, sometimes good stuff is left behind.

    As for the rest, the spite which transpires from what you write totally qualifies the content.

    Cheers,
    T.
    lumidek
    Dear Tommaso, ...

    just look at all your previous posts about theoretical physics. All of them promote garbage. You have never advertised any valuable theoretical physics - neither theoretical physics appreciated by others nor otherwise (which shouldn't really matter for an impartial and independent physicist).


    You clearly have a political agenda. You want to damage theoretical physics and flood it by noise from your blog. You want to reduce the quality of theoretical physics. You want the nonsense to become the new standard and vice versa.

    I am not advocating "peer review". Peer review is just a particular sociological mechanism to increase the quality of things that are published in particular journals (those that adopt this strategy). It's clearly not perfect - in some contexts, it's completely useless - but it's also not supposed to be perfect. It's just a strategy of journals to increase their own quality. And the selection of the truth doesn't end by publication - it starts at that point. It continues by other people's tests and follow-up works building on the previous work.

    But at any rate, the purpose of science is not identical to the "personal" interests of the journals, or the "personal" interests of those who submit (or try to submit) to them. The purpose of science is to find the truth. Whether something is the truth is a completely different question than the question whether it is published in a journal.

    And it is you (and Carl), not me, who effectively assume that validity of a text about science is the same thing as the successful publication of something in a journal. All of people like you really care about your personal interests (such as the fake pride coming from the publication in a lousy journal) - not about the actual scientific truth. It is not the same thing. And the more irrational and dishonest noise people add into the evaluation of the merits of the scientific results - like your promotion of articles that you must know are just pure rubbish, or Carl's repeated spamming of the journals with the same stuff - the bigger difference there is between being "true" and being "published in a journal".

    It's just a disservice to the society to increase this gap. The things published in the journals will never be "the same thing" as things that are true, but it is clearly in the interest of the society, the scientific community, and science itself if the published material is "as overlapping with the truth as possible".

    You are an obstacle in achieving a better state of these affairs. Sometimes good stuff is left behind but that's precisely what you're helping to cause or achieve by promoting junk that attracts the attention instead of the good stuff that you ignore.

    dorigo
    Ditto.
    Sagan wrote that science is a candle in the dark. Reading the prose of Lubos Motl, it is not a candle I make out, it's a scythe. Chilling.

    Amateur Astronomer

    Astronomy is the one physical science that welcomes amateur contributions and provides access routes for exchange of information. There is a filtering to select the more beneficial inputs and avoid the unhelpful things.

    Physics is the one physical science that has become the most reluctant to share information in either direction. Also it is the one science that is most often targeted by amateurs.

    Between the two sciences stands astrophysics that has some features of both camps. It leads to a multidisciplinary approach for input and output. Astrophysics is written for a more general science audience than most physics. The terms are defined and the mathematics is developed in ways that do not require a specialization to read and understand what is being written. Fortunately nearly all of physics is contained within astrophysics, and has been presented there in a readable format. Also astrophysics looks for physical evidence to support theories or discredit them. Much of the physics community has discontinued the prediction of things that can be measured.

    I read the Brannon paper and found some interesting theories, but nothing predicted that can be tested. In physics are found a lot of equations and text, but seldom any data. One exception is the CERN library. For an amateur to contribute something meaningful to physics, there should be some predictions made and experiments designed to support the claims.

    Motl is just a moving mouth - Dorigo a working physicist. Even I am a published author under my own name, without any help - Motl has nothing, no ideas, no work, nothing. He is an empty page, a roar in vacuum. Oh how that must pain him - to be the nothing that he is - nothing to contribute other than his narcissistic self-love. No love for science, no love for his brothers, no love for anything but his own moving mouth. A hateful person, to the last atom.

    -drl

    Wow, I love nothing more than a good tirade from a disgruntled theoretical physicist (about 99%, the rest barely adjusted). Thanks for the entertainment Lubos.

    Gee! And I thought I was a misanthrope. I guess it's just a matter of degrees. LOL
    Wow, thanks for the link and post, Tommaso!

    Regarding Motl's' critiques, the paper explicitly states "The classical electric force between charged bodies follows an exact 1/r^2 law," which is true. The paper goes on to show that an analog can be made with gravity, and just as the 1/r^2 law doesn't work exactly for electricity, the paper shows (in a limited manner) that the deviations from 1/r^2 law for gravity can be accounted for by an interaction among the "graviton" flux. One of my projects is to fully flesh out this idea, that is, to eliminate the limitations and show that all gravity tests can be satisfied this way. IF Motl has a word for what to call for thingies that travel faster than light and cause gravity, perhaps he can share the term. "Graviton" was good enough for me and, apparently, the judges.

    Regarding Decker's comment, I think the reason the paper got the honorable mention was because it gives exact equations for black hole orbits in terms of a force law (as in Newton's F=ma). This had previously been done as an approximation; google "post Newtonian expansion". That in itself is enough to publish, there is no need to predict new stuff in a physics paper.

    However, the middle part of the paper explicitly shows how the force of gravity can be broken into terms with different radial dependence and that solar system tests of gravity can be attributed to particular radial terms. The advantage of this is that it tells you exactly how you can change terms in a gravity theory and still meet the solar system tests. It's a recipe for designing your own gravity on a flat background metric. In fact the last part of the paper implies this; it calculates the adjustment necessary to get the theory to give the right forces in the limit of motionless particles. From these comments it ought to be easy to guess the general structure of my essay this year, due at the end of March.

    I've not felt that the journals or physics community has been prejudiced against me. Nor have I plastered journals with lots of submissions. For example, this paper never went anywhere but the gravity essay contest. Everyone (even Einstein) seems to complain about the referee process but no one seems to have a better idea.

    As far as getting attention, I'm not so sure that the amateurs have any greater difficulty than comparable (i.e. not 1st tier) professionals. Being unusual is, if anything, is an advantage in getting attention. For example, there are plenty of gravity theorists who haven't been mentioned on Tommaso's blog.

    Almost every original idea is either wrong or old, and usually both. To avoid making mistakes, you should thus avoid having original ideas.

    But then again, every good idea was once new. And even mainstream leaders like Aristotle, Ptolemy and Witten may be wrong.

    Dear all and I mean ALL (of the above commenters),

    This was supposed to be an article about a non-professional physicist who manages to get published and well-accepted after a long period of trying. I'm sick of seeing the discussion degrading by shifting the subject to another person once more, and I'm sorry Tommaso, but you have a share in it.

    Goes without saying that it's not my business to tell anybody what they should be dealing with (and I wouldn't if I didn't believe this interfered with science outreach), but the reason I'm suggesting it is here:
    http://www.cracked.com/article_17522_6-new-personality-disorders-caused-...
    (there is no link for the specific paragraph, please go to second page, paragraph entitled #2)

    I think you'll see a nice explanation about why arguing against something which you disagree with, is not of any help in this case.

    Rick Ryals
    WOW! Carl... congratulations^2.  This is fantastic news and I am proud to have been among the original "crackpot" posters who were featured during the same period on Tommaso's old blog.  I have been trying to publish as well... even had a physicist helping me... until he got all stringy and nuts in the head like Lumo... *snort*... so I had to cut him loose until he gets it out of his system... ;)
    Amateur Astronomer

    Thanks Carl for the explanations.

    I thought the Brannen paper was as good as anything else being published in the physics journals.

    If he had a research grant then the amateur label would be dropped. The other choice would be for him to form a research organization with a few friends and employ himself in research, as I did in my early career. When you own the name plate, then you have lot of freedom about what to research and how to report the results.

    Recognition by a journal and peer review are valuable things, that I seldom have, although one of my government sponsored reports was in print (Dutch Language) for 25 years.

    In more recent times, I bundle my writings into books and publish them my self, with registration in copyright offices. There is a fee to pay, but with it comes a Library of Congress number, so the book needs to be about 200 pages or more to be economical. To get a bar code costs about 300 for ten codes, and the ISBN numbers cost 350 for 10. Peer review consists of about 20 friends scattered all over the world, who give comments from What? to Wow!

    In general my writing is too adventurous for publishers of science, and too scientific for publishers of adventure. The market is small. Always I show sample calculations with data to elaborate any theory, and make predictions of things that can be measured. It’s an old fashioned approach to physics.

    My previous comment was directed more toward the physics community than toward Brannen. There is a tendency to publish many papers with small differences tailored to a very slow progress in physics. It looks to me like a Unified Sand Bagging Theory.

    The community is capable of a faster progress, but has designed its papers to satisfy the publishing expectations.

    Congratulation on getting published. Remember Einstein started that way.

    Hi Carl,

    Sometimes, I read the posts written by Tommaso, and this one has caught my attention. My knowledge on physics is very limited. Nevertheless, I try study some physics textbooks like the Greiner's books etc, in my spare time. Well, as you're working on conceptual problems of Gravity, I have two questions for you. What do you think about Relativistic Theory of Gravitation (Logunov et al.)? And if you let me another question, what do you think about E8 Theory (A. Garret Lisi)?

    Cheers.

    Lubos,
    you forgot the lesson:

    The speed of gravitational waves _is_ unknown.

    The mass of the photon _is_ unknown.

    Whether baryon number is conserved is unknown (easier).

    ...

    These are _phenomenological_ inputs. There is gauge invariance _because_ the photon appears massless, not the other way round.

    With respect,
    Your high school teacher

    Congratulations for getting published are in order. Congratulations!

    A question about the content of what was published is perhaps also in order: If I understand it correctly, the idea of "graviton flux" models such as Carl's is that a sea of gravitons produces effects that mimmic, at least in weak fields, those predicted by the Schwarzschild exterior solution. Asymmetries in the flux produce effects such as the force of gravity and changes in the rates of clocks at different heights in the field.

    My question concerns the INTERIOR solution. A key feature of the standard solution is that the rate of a clock at the center of a massive body is a local minimum. The center is also where the graviton flux would be isotropic due to symmetry. How or why then, should gravitons affect its rate? In other words, does the graviton model deviate from the standard prediction with regard to clock rate inside massive bodies?

    I have posted the same question on Carl's blog and am awaiting a response. I thought readers of this blog may also be interested.