Banner
    The Language Barrier
    By Tommaso Dorigo | May 26th 2010 05:25 PM | 45 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Tommaso

    I am an experimental particle physicist working with the CMS experiment at CERN and the CDF experiment at Fermilab. In my spare time I play chess...

    View Tommaso's Profile
    And after all, it is just a matter of language.

    I am convinced that 99% of the reason why a person with no scientific background cannot follow the developments of a particular research topic, despite a strong will, is language. Not the lack of ten years of specialization, nor the dearth of basic knowledge. Anything that can be explained in plain English -anything- can be understood by an English speaker willing to listen.

    So why is it so hard then? Cannot we, the scientists, just make that little extra effort and step down a bit from our self-erected podium? Or is it not really needed, given the number of science reporters out there, who actually do a pretty good job in most cases?

    I will leave alone the issue of whether scientists should enter the fray or not - you cannot be mistaken if you guess what I think of it, given the amount of time I have spent blogging in the last five years. Instead, I will admit that it is very hard to speak English (or any other normal language) when you have learned a more efficient language to communicate a very specific topic, and you have used only the latter in your job for years.

    Today I want to make a couple of random examples of things particle physicists say or write in their papers, explaining what is correspondingly heard or read by their peers. I do not mean to say that we should eventually build a dictionary of scientific terms -dictionaries are clumsy and ineffective in the blogosphere or in similar bite-and-run media- but just hint at how we should "expand" our language to bring it back to plain English. Sure, it is going to make the prose boring and quickly unreadable, but that is a different problem, which can be addressed by becoming better writers...

    1. significance

    Significance is an important word in high-energy physics. It is only apparently a plain English word: physicists attach to that innocent-looking word a mightily significant meaning, if you allow me the pun. Upon hearing "the significance of that signal is three sigma" a layperson will frown, an inexperienced particle physicist will get excited, and a navigated physicist will frown deeper than the layperson; but despite their uneven reaction the latter two will both understand what the sentence was meant to convey, while the layperson will remain in the dark.

    The reason of the different reactions is that "significance" to a layperson means "the meaning" of something, while to a physicist it rather means "how far out in the tail of a probability distribution does an experimental observation falls, when the probability refers to the hypothesis that such observation is not a true feature of the data". (Let us leave alone the different definitions of significance you might encounter in the scientific literature if you wanted to take the plunge, and just record the fact that there are deep issues with a precise, scientific recipe to compute the significance of a signal.)

    The above attempt is fair, but since such a plain-English translation still contains some disturbing jargon, we need to iterate: significance may then be explained as "the likelihood that having observed something, this turns out to be only an artifact". Better, is it not? Now let us collate this with the rest of the original sentence: "The significance of that signal is three sigma" can be translated into "It is rather unlikely that the observed signal is just an artifact arisen by chance; just about as unlikely as picking a colour at the roulette table and observing it coming out nine times in a row".

    A somewhat astute reader might object that in order not to lose something in the translation, the writer must not just make an effort with her prose, but she is also called to provide an exemplification of the "three sigma" part, and that there being an infinity of possible significances to exemplify, such a translation effort quickly becomes a rather dull occupation. I would counter that there is a difference between the way "significance" and "three sigma" should be handled, because the former is a deep concept which requires to be explained with care any time it is encountered in a text meant for laypersons, while the latter is just a number. In jargon, three-sigma just means "0.0017", that is all.

    A truly astute reader instead will notice that scientists can really do without "significance" in a scientific text, without losing any of the scientific rigors they have grown enamoured of. Sure, it requires effort, but the payoff is a better communication of science with the public. Definitely, a goal worth pursuing!

    2. multiplet

    A multiplet is a simple thing to describe: it is a collection of several identical or nearly identical things. Here, however, a difficulty arises because a "multiplet" is a manifestation of symmetry groups, and symmetry groups are tough objects to discuss. So if in a scientific paper you write "the new hadron might belong to a SU(3) multiplet", you have the additional trouble that you need to avoid discussing group theory to an unwilling listener. What is SU(3) ? Do we actually care?

    No, as laypersons we do not really care, unless the topic of the text really was group theory. One may get a reasonably good understanding of the above sentence by rewriting the same text as "the new particle is made of more elementary constituents called quarks, the same that constitute the nuclei of atoms; the quarks in the new particle are combined in such a way that the particle turns out to possess a few quite similar properties to several other ones similarly constructed".
     
    Above, the word "hadron" needed to get its own translation too: it cost us a full line of text to do that, but it was not really hard to find suitable words. Conceptually harder was to find a suitable description of what actually means, to a physicist, that a hadron fits in a SU(3) multiplet: we took a pragmatic stand, and explained in simple terms the basic reason why belonging to a multiplet is an interesting thing to note, for a new-found particle. Pragmatism needs to take the place of rigor in our translation efforts.

    I also note that in the example above, the level of care with which we may want to explain the consequences of the particle being a member of a hadron multiplet needs to be gauged by the full text: we might find it necessary to explain further details of the use one may make of the similarity of properties, if the rest of the text built on the concept; or we might be more concise otherwise.

    Summary

    I think the two examples above show the kind of exercise a scientist is called to perform in making a scientific text digestible by the soft stomachs of enthusiastic laypersons. If you are a particle physicist, I invite you to try the exercise yourself if you have not done so already: take your latest paper and try to make it readable by your grandma. With grandma, the hardest part may be to find large enough fonts; the rest is perfectly manageable, albeit not trivial.

    Comments to this post are welcome especially by those who have some experience with scientific outreach. How important are other factors apart from the language barrier? Can clarity and brilliance of text coexist with the rather pedantic sentences one is obliged to put together? What other ingredients are required to make a scientific paper understandable? How far can one allow oneself to approximate and sacrifice accuracy? These are questions I constantly ask myself when I try to write good articles in this site.


    Comments

    I wish I could agree with you on this, Tomasso, but my experience has been to the contrary, and I'm not talking about here at ScientificBlogging. For example, I tried desperately for over a year to explain the nomenclature and principles involved in the kinematics and dynamics of ringed and pseudoringed galaxies as well as S0 galaxies to volunteer laypeople in the Pro/Am collaboration known as GalaxyZoo. I even tried to teach how to classify galaxies using the de Vaucouleurs revised Hubble system of classification. I've even been praised by extragalactic astronomers for my attempts.

    But, in my opinion, I failed miserably. To this day they still don't get it. Now maybe I'm a lousy writer, and I'm quite willing to admit that. But in all my years in science, both as a professional and as an amateur, no matter how well I try to explain something, almost invariably no one has understood what I was talking about. And many of these people are far from stupid. Many are Ph.D.s in their own disciplines.

    So, where I would like to agree with you, in my gut I just can't. But obviously I haven't given up entirely. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here--as annoying as it is at times! ;-)
    Johannes Koelman
    I'm with you on this one Eric. If it were simply a matter of cutting out the jargon, science blogging would be so easy. But it is far from easy. There is no doubt in my mind that the main stumbling block in explaining modern physics is in the required level of abstraction. That's where the core of the beauty resides. Yet it is a beauty that requires effort to comprehend and enjoy. Fortunately, I hasten to add...
    I couldn't agree with you more, Johannes!
    dorigo
    Okay guys, it seems I am a real minority here. I think things can and should be expained... You think they should, but seem to also think they can't :D

    Cheers,
    T.
    Hank
    I think they are saying there are limits to what any communicator can do.   Journalists try to cover the broadest market possible by simplifying to a great extent and it often ends up being still too arcane for some and meaningless to others.

    We don't all need to be USA Today writers - you all do science writing for people who have some intellectual teeth and who want to be smarter, not those who want to have their meals put in a blender so they can drink it through a mental straw.
    dorigo
    Well, I sort of had factored out the fact that there are people who want to listen. I am giving that for granted. For me, if somebody wants to understand, the only real reason why he or she does not manage to is because we do not speak clearly enough.

    Cheers,
    T.
    Hank
    I suppose you are right.  4 inverse femtobarns of collisions won't make sense to most casual readers but they would at least know the neighborhood of 300 trillion is a lot.
    dorigo
    That's a good, simple example Hank. I think that books on science for the public would be a losing business if there weren't smart readers around, willing to listen, and capable writers who can explain anything to grandma -or a dog.

    Cheers,
    T.
    Johannes Koelman
    ".. If somebody wants to understand, the only real reason why he or she does not manage to is because we do not speak clearly enough." This is where we differ in opinion Tommaso. My experience is that whenever someone fails to understand a concept in physics despite trying hard, it is invariably because of difficulty in abstraction. Cut out all the jargon, invent the most insightful analogies, and still a lot of interested readers will fail to really understand the concept. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of unexplored territory, and a lot of scope for better science writing. And I agree that there still is too much jargon (probably also in my blog). But to claim that any lack of understanding amongst interested laypersons is almost exclusively due to the failure of using plain language, simply by-passes the key issue.
    dorigo
    Hi Johannes,

    there will always be those who have the will to listen but who will fail to get it. But what I am interested in is to get those who have the intelligence to understand, if presented with something simplified enough....

    I will try to make my point clearer by writing something today or tomorrow. I will pick something quite complex and let's see how I score.

    Cheers,
    T.
    lumidek
    Dear Tommaso,...

    it's hard to believe that you genuinely believe that no intelligence is needed to understand physics. It's just such a preposterous statement!

    You must know that even yourself, Tommaso Dorigo, fail to understand certain things. You don't understand string theory and it is not because you wouldn't know what a string is - e.g. one on a guitar. Even if you are explained what a string is and what the wave equation on it is, you won't be able to understand why anyone would combine the words "string" and "theory" and how it could be a theory of all interactions.

    Of course, you will mask this limitation by lots of self-confident clichés, but the same is true about the self-confident laymen who are incapable to understand the theory of relativity - even though they can be explained that "relative" means "depending on the viewpoint". They will also tell you that they understand everything and physicists since Einstein have been morons. There are also people who are unable to understand something and they realize and admit that this is so, which increases their ability to reach more accurate conclusions despite the ignorance, but you are clearly not among them if you think that a brain reduced to a dumb dictionary is enough to understand anything in physics.

    Best wishes
    Lubos


    dorigo
    Lubos, where did I say that no intelligence is needed ? Quite the contrary! I am saying that no prior knowledge is needed to understand even hard concepts, if explained clearly enough. I am not waiving intelligence, as I am not waiving will to listen. Rather, I am asking for a lot of both.

    Cheers,
    T.
    lumidek
    Dear Tommaso, I am not quite getting what your point is then. The main reason why people don't have a prior knowledge of advanced concepts is that they don't have sufficient intelligence for that.
    But if they already have a big enough prior knowledge, then they're relatively likely to have a sufficient intelligence, too, and they're pretty likely to make another step in their learning. But it's not guaranteed. A new step is always different from the previous one and may be harder.
    That's exactly what I was trying to say, Hank! Thank you! You have articulated my position on the matter beautifully! I couldn't have said it better myself! : )
    lumidek
    These are remarkable claims, Tommaso. To understand physics, it's enough to learn how to speak English. How easy! Education is not needed - and intelligence is so unnecessary that you have even remained completely silent about the very existence of this quantity. ;-)
    ...

    Note that English was not always that important: there were other languages needed in the past. R. Jost, an early contributor to quantum mechanics, remembers the birth of quantum field theory - a non-rigorous but successful theory - as follows (according to Simon-Reed: Methods of Modern Mathematical Physics, and reprinted in the textbook Motl, Zahradnik: We Grow Linear Algebra):

    "In the thirties, under the demoralizing influence of quantum perturbation theory, the mathematics required of a theoretical physicist was reduced to a rudimentary knowledge of the Latin and Greek alphabets."

    By the way, I don't think you have accurately explained the origin of the word "significance". In the non-scientific context, the word "significance" means not only the particular "meaning" of something (which can be this thing or completely different thing), but also the existence of any meaning, i.e. essentially "importance" or "large enough magnitude to matter": that's surely how the adjective "significant" is used by normal people. This pretty much coincides with the technical meaning of the term although the technical meaning is a bit more accurately defined and quantitative.

    More generally, I don't know what's the point of pretending that the words such as "multiplet" and "hadron" are that easy. Their meaning has many layers, superficial and deeper ones, and it's damn important for everyone - a top expert, expert, semi-professional, layman, or a random person who just runs to such things - to appreciate that there could be much more behind these words than just a few letters or a superficial dictionary definition or a fairy-tale from a book for children or from an Italian blog.

    To know these things is something very different from knowing the names of these things.
    I am sorry Lubos, but I completely disagree with your comment.

    Yes there is a huge difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something. In fact, over the course of my ridiculously short life I have tried to do just that, and I am honest enough to admit that I have failed countless times. However, when I have succeeded I have noticed that it is always followed by the ability to decode the jargon and put everything into english, my language of choice.

    I have a feeling that people use jargon for two reasons; to illustrate concepts into language, and to address their intellectual insecurities. More often than not it is the latter. Most people use jargon as a weapon against other people in order to prove their superiority like an episode of a teen cartoon. The only difference is that they try to show off using words than Gucci handbags, or fancy cars.

    Also I've noticed something else when someone takes care to address me properly and actually crafts their words with deftness then I am able to grasp and appreciate the subtle nuances of a subject. I think that whether or not people take something away from your writing is a fact about you not the reader. Great teachers like Donald Sadoway can make even the minute properties of sp3 hybridized carbon engaging and fun, while making sure that you leave the hall with something in your head.

    In shorter terms, Feynman. Need I say more?

    lumidek
    Dear A,...

    your proclamations seem to be just a sequence of populist slogans. Be sure that I am not among those who use incomprehensible jargon for no reason - as the owner of the arguably most comprehensible science blog on the Internet, I don't have to add much to support this personal point.

    However, it is still true that when you remove all the unnecessary jargon that was used by someone merely to impress others, you will still be left with many difficult words and their combinations, as well as their complex syntactic, semantic, logical, and quantitative relationships, that are simply not used just to impress others. They're used because they're absolutely needed. The bulk of science is all about them.

    And one can't really follow all these things with "plain words" or English. (Your very preference of "English" is completely unscientific. It's just one language.) One needs mathematics to understand and analyze the objects hiding behind the words properly. In the words of Feynman, if you want me to say more,

    "If you are interested in the ultimate character of the physical world, or the complete world, and at the present time our only way to understand that is through a mathematical type of reasoning, then I don't think a person can fully appreciate, or in fact can appreciate much of, these particular aspects of the world, the great depth of character of the universality of the laws, the relationships of things, without an understanding of mathematics. I don't know any other way to do it, we don't know any other way to describe it accurately ... or to see the interrelationships without it. So I don't think a person who hasn't developed some mathematical sense is capable of fully appreciating this aspect of the world - don't misunderstand me, there are many, many aspects of the world that mathematics is unnecessary for, such as love, which are very delightful and wonderful to appreciate and to feel awed and mysterious about; and I don't mean to say that the only thing in the world is physics, but you were talking about physics and if that's what you're talking about, then to not know mathematics is a severe limitation in understanding the world."

    FROM: "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out" (a video), by Richard P. Feynman, Helix Books, 1999, pg. 15. Video source: 0:20 of
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br_PJY-LZTw

    Do I need to say more? You have turned his opinions upside down. His point was the very same thing as mine - that it doesn't matter how things are called - what matters is how it works and one needs mathematical reasoning to really get it.

    If you want to hear Feynman saying that it doesn't matter a single bit how a bird is called in English, see 6:20 at

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srSbAazoOr8


    Best wishes
    Lubos


    your proclamations seem to be just a sequence of populist slogans....as the owner of the arguably most comprehensible science blog on the Internet, I don't have to add much to support this personal point.

    First of all, I wasn't attacking you. I simply don't like attacking people personally and making wild accusations about their personalities when I hardly know them. So, please stop your horses on that front.

    I am sorry to say this, but I must. I might not have the most comprehensive science blog on the internet (really?) but I know the difference between a great teacher and, well for the lack of a better word, a wannabe who does it to satisfy some egotistical craving. No, I am not talking about you here either. I was serious about point number one.

    It's also true that you know way more about physics than me. I turned 18 a few months ago and I've hardly had the opportunity to go through the entire Feynman lectures on physics. It might be also true that I am not smarter than you.

    I am ready to admit all of that.

    Why?

    Because I do not want this to degrade into a fancy version of name calling that is rampant on the intertubes. I have this funny feeling that it will, and I prefer to trust my intuition in such cases.

    So that aside

    However, it is still true that when you remove all the unnecessary jargon that was used by someone merely to impress others, you will still be left with many difficult words and their combinations, as well as their complex syntactic, semantic, logical, and quantitative relationships, that are simply not used just to impress others. They're used because they're absolutely needed. The bulk of science is all about them.

    I am afraid that you've forgotten that they represents concepts and concepts are very fluid in the sense you can use,if you have the patience, any level of words to express them. Traditionally you move to condense things, but when you are teaching you have to expand them in order to start the readers on a journey. You might call that a slogan, but for some reason it works for me.

    I prefer English as I am bit dyslexic and I find it very hard to learn new languages. In fact English is the only language I can speak as well as write with such fluency. This is despite the fact that I grew up in a household filled with 3 languages.

    By the way, what makes something scientific or un-scientific?

    Experiment, right? Now how is language, or my preference to use one language related to that? Don't you agree that the concepts I wish to communicate matter more?

    I also want to tell you that language is something truly remarkable in the sense that it is extremely versatile, and we are born with a certain ability to encode and decode our mental processes into them. This also means that there isn't any correct language or incorrect language per se, but language use that succeeds in communication and one that falls flat on its face. I know this since I was wasted quite a bit of my life trying to make an NLP search engine before quiting.

    One needs mathematics to understand and analyze the objects hiding behind the words properly.

    That's quite true, but you don't need maths to see the picture, which ironically is something that we as humans always miss. We analyse the details and forget to look at what it means. You mathematically express something to manipulate it in an comfortable way and condense it even further, but what gives math the meaning is the real/virtual world implications behind it. De-link then you have just another frightening text book problem.

    His point was the very same thing as mine - that it doesn't matter how things are called - what matters is how it works and one needs mathematical reasoning to really get it.

    First of all we can never be sure what he truly meant when he said that.

    Perhaps I am hinting at the same thing?

    lumidek
    Dear A, ...

    I don't like the idea of a discussion where the purpose for someone would be to point out that I was insensitive because I should have been hiding some inconvenient truths, or something like that. So let me tell you in advance that what you wrote won't lead me to any hypocrisy of this kind or another kind simply because I am unable to perform it.

    This thread is about the relationship of science, language, and jargon, so - please - let's keep this topic instead of switching to some compassion about disorders, OK?

    By your writing, it's clear that you don't suffer of dysgraphia. Moreover, even if you have some dyslexia, it would seem to be a reason to focus on something else than the language because it could actually be easier for a dyslectic person.

    Of course, one still needs some language - and these skills may be harder with dyslexia. Let me tell you that I am no natural genius in learning foreign languages, either. And I wasn't taught English or any other foreign language (except for Russian) as a kid which makes a difference, so my poetic native Czech is the only language I have mastered at the top level. But in my case or your case, that's no reason to complain because the really important things are independent of the languages.

    That's what I wanted to emphasize: even if you solve or transcend all your conceivable language and reading/listening pains amplified by dyslexia, you won't be at the end of the journey. I just find this thing extremely important, and it's even more important if you're 18. If you think that e.g. physics can be mastered once you overcome a few difficulties related to the language and the meaning of a few thousand words, you will be heavily disappointed because it's not the case. Language is just the beginning, a tool to simplify the inflow (and outflow) of information. 

    But science starts later and elsewhere. The bulk is about a very different type of skills and information. You wrote that when it comes to speaking about science, English is the language of your choice. That's fine with me and you're surely not the only one. But I am telling you that if you're solving similar questions (and the question involving particular English words) in the bulk of your time, you're simply nowhere near solving really scientific questions because the personal language preferences simply have nothing to do with science.

    You say that you don't need mathematics to see the picture, and once again, you're wrong if we're talking about the picture of the world as understood by physics. 

    You simply need maths to see the picture. Without maths, you don't see the "real" picture. You're blind. Look at the final episode of the Big Bang Theory. The idiot Zack was invited to the show with the laser beam reflected from the Moon. He didn't see it. He only saw a line on the screen - that was his picture. But he didn't see what was actually behind the line. He didn't get the picture. It's really a kind of geometric or "visual picture" that he was missing. He was able to produce words, such as "the guys are going to blow the Moon up" - but it was the absence of the picture in his head that prevented him from seeing that the Moon couldn't explode by the laser beam, among all other things he missed. ;-)

    Again, as Feynman said and I am saying, you can't really see these things without mathematics. You must know that you contradict what Feynman said, and you contradict my texts, too. Please don't try to deny it. You're not dyslectic in English!

    The human language is impressive in some sense - well, it's also very messy, too. It has evolved to exchange various useful information in various contexts in manageable ways. It had to evolve with the people above a certain IQ threshold who had to co-exist and survive in some useful ways. It's not too surprising. The people have invented many more ingenious things than languages - which are just sounds/letters encoding some objects, experiences, desires, or feelings that the people have always objectively had. So I think all this mess related to languages is kind of fascinating (and especially the family tree of the languages, something that fascinates me almost as much as Murray Gell-Mann), but it's still certainly a mess. There's nothing really "elegant" about human languages - unlike maths. Human languages are arbitrary, often illogical, and partly or mostly ill-defined.

    Concerning the good teachers and bad teachers, there surely exists a difference. It's in their ability to organize the ideas, speak clearly, ignite interest, emotions, liveliness, about the efficient using of the knowledge of the students which translates to a good choice of analogies, lack of temptation to sound incomprehensible or to hide something important for the purpose of remaining "above" the students, good choice of the speed, and good timing when various new issues have to be introduced, among many other things. 

    That's all good but when you're finished with all this rating, it's still important that you can't rely on teachers all the time. You eventually have to learn how to learn and think yourself. You must eventually stand on your own feet. And you will find out that science is not about the dictionary definition of words.

    Best wishes
    Lubos
    You do have lots of valid points.

    So, I think that it's futile for me to argue with you over straw men.

    However, it just saddens me on looking at our argument that it was not about a disagreement, but about two different things. I should have realized it sooner. Sorry.

    Thanks a lot!

    I know this difficulty very well, from the layman person perspective, and it is most frustrating. Apparently simple words are wrongly understood, not to talk of all those physist terms. It is very difficult to read something if you have to control the meaning of the words from wikipedia in every second word. Not to say the wikipedia has no simple solution either. You may be served three or more solutions to the same problem.

    But I also understand physics is so special that much is not even possible to explain with standard words. Then you will have to use lots of words and even without coming to the right understanding, just as Eric said.

    If you read those old names they often used much more simple, everyday text. So it ought to be possible, with some effort, but perhaps not everything can be said in everyday language.

    "an inexperienced particle physicist will get excited, and a navigated physicist will frown deeper than the layperson" Lol!

    Honestly, I don't think there is an issue here, although it's rarely ever solved ;) Plain explanations must be given otherwise there's no point in outreach - I say there's no point 'cause the audience will miss one or two of the bricks halfway and fail to follow the rest, or just accept it as vague assumptions.

    However, I don't remember coming across any _really_ detailed explanation for laymen using plain language. (Do you?) My closest personal experience were private lessons to high-school students (from programming to basic algebra to atomic models) and I can attest that finding an even plainer rephrasing than the previous one without using any wrong metaphors is a great attraction.
    "take your latest paper and try to make it readable by your grandma" I think I'll try this, at least with the abstract!

    Ultimately the problem ends up being one of pragmatism. It is almost impossible to convey even a page worth of a modern physics paper, much less the physical significance using just english if you insist on perfect accuracy and precision simply b/c there are so many logical prerequisites and background that also need explaining. You could probably write down an encylopedia worth of english and still fail to accurately describe whats really going on in that single page.

    Consider for instance that Einstein wrote almost an entire book in plain english, describing special relativity. Well, thats 2 lines of mathematics for a modern physicist or possibly suppressed altogether (being understood that various objects transform a certain way) in say a modern particle physics paper. Thats not obvious to a layman, and really does deserve to be explained. So then the trap is you end up describing 1905 and 1920's physics (and worse sometimes 19th century physics) and end up spending an hour on the subject without even getting close to describing the actual modern development that the person might have asked about.

    So i've given up describing physics to relatives. I just can't do it and still feel comfortable with the veracity of what i'm saying. It seems at time like we are priests describing the good book to the masses, when perhaps instead we should be encouraging them to do it step by step for themselves.

    lumidek
    Concerning Einstein and debates about physics in English, as an undergrad, I loved the story about gravitational waves between Einstein and Levi-Civita, an Italian mathematician....

    See e.g.

    http://books.google.cz/books?id=UgggNsJhCp8C&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=einstein+levi-civita+%22thought+to+be+english%22&source=bl&ots=ptNXPoXw7x&sig=NAwolUlpNteDCCgKGaM1mOYHvnk&hl=cs&ei=A3z-S72SLJj4mgPg7NSjDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage


    A quote:

    In his [Infeld's] first meeting with Einstein in Princeton, Einstein explained to him and to Tullio Levi-Civita, the notable Italian mathematician who was also present, why he no longer believed in the existence of gravitational waves. Levi-Civita was one of the founders of the field of mathematics (tensor calculus) that underlies general relativity and made it possible. In the earliest days of relativity he had criticized Einstein's use of a pseudo-tensor to describe gravitational field energy. Now, in the presence of two such great men, Infeld was amused as the "calm" Einstein and the "gesticulating" Levi-Civita stood at the blackboard and "talked in a language which they thought to be English."


    Another source I read 15 years ago - in Czech, probably taken from Infeld - added a sentence that "however, the genuine tool of communication between the men were the equations written on the blackboard."

    Now, it's fun to make fun out of Einstein's English - but the really painful thing was that Einstein - and others - didn't believe that the gravitational waves existed in the mid 1930s. Such a basic thing!

    I agree with Haelfix that the teaching how to attack the problems by themselves may be more useful, or honest, than teaching of the particular results that others have already found. It's also hard. But not infinitely hard. And the understanding how hard various things be - something that the beginner can probably get by experience only - is an essential part of a sensible perspective on the whole science.

    I agree with Haelfix that the teaching how to attack the problems by
    themselves may be more useful, or honest, than teaching of the
    particular results that others have already found. It's also hard. But
    not infinitely hard. And the understanding how hard various things be -
    something that the beginner can probably get by experience only - is an
    essential part of a sensible perspective on the whole science.


    An excellent point, Luboš.
    So i've given up describing physics to relatives. I just can't do it and still feel comfortable with the veracity of what i'm saying. It seems at time like we are priests describing the good book to the masses, when perhaps instead we should be encouraging them to do it step by step for themselves.
    I very much agree, Haelfix.
    I disagree with a couple of things.

    One is that it is a good style to explain every term.
    If a term or usage is introduced which is truly local, then yes. For example, if a particular article about a particular expedition wishes to use the term "flusher" to refer to a rapid head-wall erosion in a freshly laid flow of volcanic ash, it should say so, because that is not a standard jargon geologists use, but it might be a dandy concept to talk about when exploring a recently volcanic event. If someone tried to find "flusher" in a generic dictionary, or even in a geologic dictionary, they might come up empty.

    On the other hand, the term "pyroclastic flow" does not need to be explained in every article. It is easy to look up. Inserting a paragraph to explain that term would merely add redundant bulk to the article.

    A writer might target an article for a particular audience. In my example of geologists, the writer SHOULD assume that the reader is either already familiar with the terms, or will take the initiative to look them up.

    If an article is targeted at a more general audience, care should still be taken to avoid fluff.
    Explain only terms which might easily be confusing, such as those where a jargon usage is in conflict with a common usage.
    Part of the reason I say this is that I have watch two very bright children read science articles.
    They are quick to use Google to look up things they do not understand.
    They appreciate when an article is concise, such that once they do understand the words, they get used at full-power.

    lumidek
    Incidentally, I completely agree with the ideas above. A text is usually targeting a class of readers - or listeners - and it is inevitably confusing to a broader class. However, every text should fully use the expected knowledge, or the ability to find or refresh knowledge, of the target group of readers or listeners....

    And the purpose of every text should actually be to efficiently increase the knowledge - or the spectrum of offered inspirational ideas - of the target group. So the major part of the text has to be to do something nontrivial that the most important "marginal" group of readers is almost able to do, but hasn't done yet.

    Explaining words such as "associativity" in a paper primarily about the classification of finite groups would surely be a waste of space, time, and money. It would only be useful to those who don't understand "associativity" to start with, but such people are probably unable to master a paper (or papers) classifying all finite groups without a further training because they would have to do several steps at once.

    So it makes no sense to try to make such things "popular". Problems with the word "associativity" in a paper about the classification of finite groups are probably not caused by a "language barrier"; they're caused by a "gap in knowledge of group theory" on the reader's side. Of course, it's plausible that a reader knows the content of associativity without knowing the name. But such a reader must know that he could have some trouble to read *any* paper about group theory. If he realizes this not so subtle fact, he may take a basic dictionary or introduction of group theory and quickly learn the terminology - if he already knows the content.

    If that's not possible, it's because the reader actually doesn't understand the content. This has nothing to do with the language.

    Other quibble:
    from the blog-o-sphere, dictionaries are EASY to use.
    I've already got a connected computer on my lap.
    I can typically look up a term in under 30 seconds.
    Open another window (if necessary): it comes up in Google.
    Copy and paste the confusing word.
    Click on a promising article and read a little.

    lumidek
    Exactly. With the Chrome and custom search engines, I press ctrl/n. A new window opens. I press alt/d to get to the omnibox and I type ...

    w Significance

    Wikipedia opens at the right page,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significance

    Because the text I try to understand seems to talk about some exact science, it's neither semiotics nor stock issue. So I click at "statistical significance". The page

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

    gives an introduction to the word that's arguably more concise, more comprehensible, and more naturally structured than Tommaso's explanation of the term.  Similarly, I may type "w multiplet" to get to

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplet

    Here you have everything basic you need to know about the term, too. Of course, such things become harder if you study more advanced stuff - some bundles which may have a special meaning in some context, and so on. But when it's so, the problem is never just language. The right pages that would explain the terms would inevitably have to contain a lot of "beef", too - because the beef is needed why the terms exist at all.

    A simple example - where Wikipedia could still be useful. Take ADE classification. Someone wants to know what A, D, and E really mean in theory of Lie groups. They're not abbreviations. Instead, there are five classes A,B,C,D,E. But to understand why there are five, you already need to know some group theory - the classification.

    There is a complementarity here. If the problem is "pure language", it's pretty much always trivial to transgress the barrier, and Tommaso's help with the language is useless. A simple Wikipedia search is enough. When it's hard to transcend the barrier of a word, it's always because there's also some nontrivial beef behind the word - beef that can't be replaced by a simple concise definition of the term.

    I once attended a talk at the Univ of Texas on twistor theory given by Lane Hughston, a student of Roger Penrose. Despite the fact that this was a full hour technical seminar presented to experts, on a rather mathematical subject, Lane resolved from the start to present the entire talk in plain English. He made no use of the blackboard or visual aids, just sat on a tall stool facing the audience the entire time. He used no equations at all, referring to mathematical objects only in the most general descriptive terms. An amazing performance, and an experience never to be forgotten. But I'm afraid the reaction of most of the audience afterward was, "What??"

    Conscious jargon:
    when an opportunity to invent a new term,
    AVOID common words.

    "Significance" is an example of a terrible overloading. It is easy to mistake it with the common word "significance". This is especially bad when common meaning overlaps with technical meaning.
    It is very hard, after many years of confusing use, to suggest that scientists all start to substitute a different word such as "sigfig", "sigbit", or even "cansy".
    The first mathematician to write about the concept could have coined a term such as "cansy", a pun on "can see", not immediately obvious, but not hard to remember, and in little danger of being mistaken for a common word. It might have caught on.

    The word "hadron" is good jargon.
    It is only used for what it means.

    "Quark" is a fine borrowing from Finnegan's Wake. It is not overused.
    "Charm" could confuse.
    We THINK "spin" and "charge" are consistent with the more common usage.

    lumidek
    I couldn't agree more. It's extremely important to avoid this confusion and double or multiple meanings which are often sources of misunderstandings (and sometimes deliberate ones)....

    Even outside science, I think that English is already pretty bad in this respect. Take a word, e.g. "mean". It can mean the verb used in this very sentence. As a noun, it can be a gadget e.g. a vehicle for transportation, or the average. As an adjective, it can be the average thing or the very bottom thing, and this classification may be done according to dozens of quantities - character, wealth etc. - that are often not clear from the context. One pays a very big price for the apparent conciseness of English texts.

    In science, if a really new thing is discovered, it should never get the name of something generic that could potentially appear in the same sentences because a confusion becomes almost inevitable. On the other hand, if the new invented object has some familiar properties, it's good if the new term refers to those properties, but it should be in such a way that the confusion is eliminated.

    Indeed, "hadrons" were a great choice. They're some heavy particles, linked to "hadros" in Greek, but the word is completely new and leads to the clear expectation that the true meaning of the word don't have to be "directly" linked to the word "hadros" as an adjective. So the root of the word may help you (or your Greek friends) to put the right feelings in your head, but it doesn't push you towards any confusions.

    The name of the charm quark is sufficiently confusing so that it is "usually" necessary to say both words, "charm quark", to identify the quark flavor: such a longer terminology them works like charm. So while "charm" may look like an efficient, short word, the actual term needed to identify the object is not just "charm" but "charm quark" which is longer - and it's still pretty short because "quark" was a well-chosen word.

    So when the conciseness of the terminology is evaluated, we must realize that the multiple meanings are at stake and the new terms must be judged according to the genuine number of letters of syllables that will be needed to identify the object or class of objects in a typical context. And I agree that the misunderstanding are the most serious ones if the two meanings, technical and generic, are close enough to each other but far enough so that the difference can't be neglected.

    Fortunately, double-worded terms such as "statistical significance" are often enough to solve the confusion - which is still a relatively low price for the otherwise horrible misunderstandings that could be otherwise created.

    In some sense, non-English languages have an advantage when it comes to distinguishing technical and non-technical meanings of the English words. For example, "spin" in the colloquial sense may be translated into Czech in many "Slavic sounding" ways. Again, the word "spin" has many "remotely related" meanings in English, including rotation around the axis and the distortion in the media, but none of these meanings is called "spin" in Czech. (Although we sometimes accept some English words - but then we may be surprised that many Czechs fail to understand.) However, the spin of the electron is still called "spin". 

    The confusion is avoided: the English term is used for the technical meaning, while the Slavic words represent the original layperson's meanings. But the very fact that Czech hasn't used the Slavic translations of "spin" for the "spin of the electron" shows that the Czech creators realized the potentially annoying confusions. And after all, there's no exact and concise enough translation for "spin" into Czech, anyway. ;-)


    The creators of the Czech terminology always agreed with this comment and the preceding one. When they were creating terminology for all of chemistry, zoology, botany etc. 200 years ago, they would create new words that couldn't be confused with the existing ones. That's the case of the modern times, too. For example, "cosmic microwave background" could have been translated literally. But instead, Mr Grygar chose the term "relict radiation" - like a remnant of the era of decoupling. The word "relict" is not used too often, and it is virtually impossible to find a pre-CMB text that would combine the words "relict" and "radiation" in this way. So a confusion is impossible if you have heard "relict radiation" at least once.
    Reigning in jargon:
    The book "Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software"
    served to define some very common concepts in programming
    and give them a fairly standard name
    while before that book,
    every working group in every company had their own terminology,
    often cryptic abbreviations
    for the same idea that everyone else had to invent.

    Unfortunately, most of the terms chosen overloaded some common-language term.
    If I wish to speak of a bridge, I phrase it "bridge pattern".
    Still, I can just say "adapter pattern" on first usage, and thenceforth just say "adapter".

    dorigo
    Wow, thank you all. This thread has provided me with some really useful food for thought. I do agree that the target is what drives the choice of wording and the complexity of the text. However, a blog has a widely varied set of use cases. Let me list a few to make my point:

    - a blog entry is forever. It stays in the webspace. People will one day search for "jet energy scale" and hit my plain-english explanation. I doubt wikipedia will ever have an entry for jet energy scale, but if it did, it would not be qualitatively too different from my own take at it, in choice of wording and depth.

    - then there is the affectionate reader, who goes through every blog entry even if he or she does not understand much. Writing at least part of my posts in a way that is understandable by a person with no background on that specific topic is a moral obligation that I do feel.

    - of course, when you write in a blog such as mine, you are often confronted with experts who visit you just to see your take of things. They will get bored by unnecessarily lengthy explanations, but they may accept some of it. However, they will jump at your throat if you let go with too approximated simplifications.

    - then there are journalists. Beware of them - they seem to have a penchant for taking things the wrong way. Some extra care is needed when writing an outreach document.

    I could go on. As you see, since a blog entry needs to be un-targeted, it requires one to fulfil many tasks at once. The equilibrium one finds is a matter of personal sensitivity to the different souls of one's blog, and this ultimately drives the success of the latter. Along with a number of other circumstances, of course.

    Cheers all, and thanks for your contributions.
    T.
    lumidek
    By the way, Russian literature, and especially classical literature, is by far the most important source of information for the top people these days....

    For example, Tommaso's most favorite politician, Silvio Berlusconi, always uses the same source to find something on the Internet: Gogol.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEu20JRW0YA

    Sorry, I think this will be a bit off-topic:

    Could someone explain in simple words to me very mathematical theories in physics to me, although I have no deeper understanding of those mathematics? In principle he could. The signs that you use to explain something (for example math signs) are not an important choice, but it is important how they are defined and what you associate with them. I mean pure mathematics with no physical definitions assciated, is just meaningless in our world. You could in principle explain everything that you express in mathematical terms in simple words.

    I mean, do physicists realize that? I often have the impression they think of math like an own science, but its just a very subjective abbreviative way of expressing our thoughts. Even every number must be associated with a real existing object in our reality to be meaningful. I mean there exists no mathematical word in our reality, but just in our mind sometimes. :)

    And it isnt language as such the barrier of our imagination as every word contained in it has prefixed meaning? We can only communicate if it works like this, but it may seem less favorable when thinking about scientific questions.

    I liked that Dr Heuer said that with the LHC we not only discover new things, but we also learn to ask the right questions.

    Im no physicist or scientist, so you may laugh about my thoughts now. :)

    "It is rather unlikely that the observed signal is just an artifact arisen by chance; just about as unlikely as picking a colour at the roulette table and observing it coming out nine times in a row"

    Hmm, easier to understand? Are you sure? I am afraid that in this posting we are showing some disrespect towards language (and language sciences). Language is complicated. It takes years to learn.

    lumidek
    Dear Alejandro, I am not sure what your quote from Tommaso has to do with your "conclusion"....

    But concerning the "conclusion", my person reason to show "some disrespect" towards language and language sciences is that I do possess "some disrespect" to them. It may be complicated (and takes years) but it's a mess and it's just a basic layer for the survival of a society, much like drinking is for the individual.

    The real signs of intelligent life or intellectual values start elsewhere, above languages, and maths and sciences can't be boiled to languages alone.


    And I do think that Tommaso's roulette analogy is more comprehensible to most people. It seems as a numerically correct "model" and it also captures "why" some people may be impressed by 3-sigma evidence while others may not. (Be sure that getting the right color 9 times in row just happens to someone - many people - and there can be much stronger reasons to think otherwise than this relatively realistic "luck".)
    Yes, language is a mess. And because of it, a translation from mathphys to natural language is not a simplification; if it were, we would use natural languages to do physics.
    When I have used similar analogies with laymen, I have found two kinds of situations: people who believe to understand, because they know all the words in the phrase and they have some intuition of the described action, and people who re-examines the phrase taking into acount the potential polisemics and implied meanings, and is ready to ask about the content of it, then driving to the same discussion process that the original "three sigma".
    Regretly, the alternative is "scientific divulgation": do not translate, simply give less information.

    dorigo
    Hi Alejandro,

    yes, the way to go is to give less information. After all, nobody needs the details. A good summary is often all it takes to a businessman or a politician to take important decisions. Like shutting down the SSC :(

    Cheers,
    T.
    Perhaps the point is speed. A measure of [a kind of] inteligence could be the speed to grasp a new meaning of a word. Then the fact that different people progress across the same phrase at different speeds is not in contradiction which the ability of the person to understand the phrase. Of course, there is some time-management issue around, and so the famous dictum, "no royal path to mathematics".

    In the previous example, there are a lot of complicated words: signal, artifact, chance... and then the key of the phrase is a surprising "as unlikely as" which implies that it is possible to compare different degrees of unlikeness. And even the comparision term, "nine times in a row", is not intuitive, and people will fail if you ask them questions as "is it more likely to throw five dices without getting a six, or to throw ten dices without getting a double six"? At the end, you will take more or less the same time to explain all the subtle points that to explain what a "sigma" is.

    A thing that you can do with plain language is to induce people to believe that they have understood the phrase. For instance, in a first hearing they will understand "unlikely" in an unquantitative way, and only after some though, noticing the high precision of the "nine times is a row", they will suspect that there is more meaning implied. With some luck, at that time you will already be out of the pub.

    dorigo
    Hah Alejandro... Not a pub conversation anyway. But yes, speed is in the equation too. I however prefer to take a pragmatic point of view: there are readers who can detect the meaning of words and that once they hear "unlikely" immediately ask themselves "how much". Still, those readers might have trouble with a concept like "the running of the QCD coupling" unless you explain it to them. And you _can_ explain it, if they are willing to listen with care. That is entirely my point.
    Cheers,
    T.
    Hi Tommaso,

    I agree 100% with your post. I think a good place to start is to explain our work to those working down the hall. The ability to summarize, for a non-specialist, the route taken to the understanding of some phenomenon is what distinguishes those who truly understand a theory theory from the rest.

    Cheers,

    Deepak

    rholley
    "the new hadron might belong to a SU(3) multiplet"
    I am attempting to mount an assault on this statement.  Phase 1 is here http://www.science20.com/beamlines/language_barrier_attacked_1.

    Your comments will be most welcome, and some help will almost certainly be necessary for Phases 2 and 3.
    Robert H. Olley Quondam Physics Department University of Reading England

    Add a comment

    The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
    • Allowed HTML tags: <sup> <sub> <a> <em> <strong> <center> <cite><TH><ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img> <br> <p> <blockquote> <strike> <object> <param> <embed> <del> <pre> <b> <i> <table> <tbody> <div> <tr> <td> <h1> <h2> <h3> <h4> <h5> <h6> <hr> <iframe><u><font>
    • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
    CAPTCHA
    If you register, you will never be bothered to prove you are human again. And you get a real editor toolbar to use instead of this HTML thing that wards off spam bots.