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    The Future Of Science In The Next Decade? Transdisciplinary Collaboration
    By Andrea Kuszewski | February 15th 2010 07:21 PM | 36 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Andrea

    Andrea is a Behavior Therapist and Consultant for children on the autism spectrum, residing in the state of FL; her background is in cognitive

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    I was asked the question, "What can we expect to see from science in the next decade?" My answer comes from the perspective of a social scientist, as I research social problems from the influence of cognitive neuroscience. I am inspired to write this particular analysis after attending the TED 2010 conference, which wrapped up this past weekend in Long Beach, CA.

    Some of you may ask, "What is TED? And how does it relate to science in the next decade?"

    TED is a conference held every year in California where the world's best thinkers, innovators, scientists, designers, engineers, entertainers, politicians, philosophers, convention breakers, envelope pushers, you name it- come together in a glorious think tank environment in which to spread ideas and share innovation from every area of society. As TED attendee Red Maxwell, President of onramp branding, so cleverly stated, "Every speaker at TED is a type of hero. Everyone has their own super power, based on their field." Indeed, TED speakers are all superheroes in their prospective domains, and TED itself is the Hall of Justice for thinkers and innovators. Even the attendees at TED are amazing. They are some of the most passionate, creative, interesting people in the world, meeting for four days of networking, sharing of ideas, and learning from one another. I have had the pleasure of meeting some incredible people at TED, who have inspired me to share my vision of science in the next decade.

    The most interesting thing about TED is that everyone is here for the same purpose: finding answers. All of our questions may be different, but we are all seekers of truth. One person may be looking for the answer to stopping world hunger or the spread of disease. Someone else may be seeking the solution on how to educate our children about food. Others may want answers to questions such as why some people can perceive meaningful patterns in noise, while others struggle to decipher relevance in the same stimuli. The questions may all be different, but the answers all lie in science. We can look to science to see what types of interventions work when targeting disease. We can look to science to tell us how much sugar a child takes in with a single carton of chocolate milk a day over all of the days spent through middle school. And we can look to science to tell us what the difference is in someone's brain who can see relevant patterns in ambiguous stimuli versus someone who sees every pattern, regardless of relevance. Science can give us the answers to all of our questions, but we just need to understand how to best utilize science for the solutions it can give.

    I met three quite extraordinary people at TED this week, which give a great random sampling of how science is utilized in three very different domains.

    Red Maxwell, mentioned earlier, President of onramp branding, uses the science of how people think and perceive in order to develop concepts for companies, products, and communications. By taking into account the science and psychology of perception and cognition, they are able to create ideas for companies that most appeal to our needs, motivations, and desires as consumers.

    David Bolinsky, Partner and Medical Director of XVIVO Scientific Animation, approaches this from a slightly different angle. By understanding what turns people on from an entertainment perspective, he finds ways to bring the truth and beauty of science to a wider audience in order to heighten their understanding of complex concepts. His ground-breaking and award winning animations have helped to reach audiences that may have otherwise missed out on the wonders of life that science has to teach us.

    Juan Enriquez, Managing Director of Excel Medical Ventures, LLC, and founding director of the Harvard Business School's Life Sciences Project, is a world authority on the economic impact of science on business. He knows that we need to understand science if we are to understand how to approach business and public policy in the decades to come.

    All three of these people are from quite different domains, but science is the unifying concept that drives all three of their unique visions, on how they can contribute to solve the challenges and problems that society presents.

    The theme of TED this year was "What the World Needs Now". Every presenter, and maybe even every attendee, had their own vision of what the world needs. I tend to agree most with author Michael Specter, of the New Yorker, who said, "We've never needed science and progress more than we have now," and continued, "... You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts; sorry about that." According to Specter, what the world needs is to embrace scientific discovery, instead of fearing what it brings to light. Knowledge and truth can serve to advance society, as long as we are responsible in how we use and interpret its contributions.

    So what does science look like in the next decade? Collaboration. Transdisciplinary research. Cross-cultural analysis of findings. Creativity and innovation from every field will be (and should be) a crucial element in scientific research.  Just as TED's business model is the merging of ideas from every domain to solve world problems, science needs to think in this direction as well. We cannot just sit inside our labs or offices and narrow our focus to our one scientific problem. We need to look to the outside world and all of its influences to help develop the solutions. The problems of science do not belong to just one domain, such as biology, physics, or neuroscience, but to society as a whole. Science influences every aspect of society, so when we look to solve our scientific problems, we need to look to every aspect of society for potential solutions. When we get this cross mixing of ideas, with inspiration sprinkled in from multiple domains, we can generate the best solutions-  ones that have the highest potential for success, for we get unique perspectives on these issues that otherwise might never have come to light.

    The days of attempting to solve a scientific problem in a linear, unidisciplinary fashion are coming to an end. Institutions that have already latched on to the new model of collaborative research are in the forefront of discovery. More and more research departments and industries are embracing this transdisciplinary approach, utilizing experts from every domain, such as economics, math, computer science, biology, psychology, and neuroscience, all striving towards a comprehensive answer to a single problem.

    TED curator Chris Anderson seems to know this fact intuitively. At the beginning of the conference on Wednesday, he said that in a world with so many intelligent people, we should be better at coming up with solutions to solve world problems. I share his frustration. But we don't need to just generate new ideas, we need to find ways to put those ideas to use and actually solve the problems. That is where transdisciplinary collaboration comes in. Once we understand and accept that the world's problems (and science's problems) belong to not just one domain, but to society as a whole, we can start to work together to generate real solutions that can be put to practical use.

    So what do I think the world needs now? Science. But not only does the world need to embrace science, science needs to embrace the world as well.

    Comments

    Gerhard Adam
    At the beginning of the conference on Wednesday, he said that in a world with so many intelligent people, we should be better at coming up with solutions to solve world problems. I share his frustration. But we don't need to just generate new ideas, we need to find ways to put those ideas to use and actually solve the problems.
    While I can appreciate the nature of such comments within the context of conferences, it does raise some concerns.  In one case, the marked absence of philosophy and such perspectives.  It's almost as if we have "problems" that can be solved like a set of problems at the end of a high school textbook.

    I would like to hear what the world's problems actually are or at least what they are proposed to be.  Having them articulated in a clear fashion would suggest whether they are even amenable to purely scientific solutions or whether there are actually completely different issues that need addressing.  It certainly isn't going to stem from food production, or clean water, or minimal health care, or farming practices, or birth control.  All of these issues are well understood and still not gaining much traction in terms of the problems they solve.  So, is the proposal that science should come up with solutions that are so simple that they can bypass governmental red-tape and cultural inertia?

    I would suspect that many problems don't actually require additional scientific knowledge to solve.  In fact, a legitimate question that needs to be answered, is to determine when this became the responsibility of science in the first place.  Acquiring knowledge is one thing, but to assume that it has now become the province of science to resolve the world's problems is a relatively new twist.

    This isn't to say that science hasn't contributed to solutions in the past, but that was rarely the reason people studied science.  Invariably it was their own questions and desire for knowledge that drove them.  However, it is disconcerting to observe how much of science is being driven by corporate and governmental interests.  It gives me pause to consider that the three domains listed all invariably involve manipulating people in some form (not to make it sound too sinister).

    I am ultimately skeptical of many things, and just as I find organized religion to be a detriment, I'm not completely convinced that "organized science1 (not knowledge)" necessarily leads in a better direction.

    1 I'm considering science in this sense to represent the "business of science" rather than the individual interests that motivate many people.
    The future of addressing scoietal problems in the next decade may very well be transdisciplinary, but these are all engineering problems. How do we prevent starvation? How do we cure diseases? How do we understand and manipulate the human mind and society? These are noble goals, but at the same time, we still have basic science to do; discovering the nature of particles, creating unified theories in physics, understanding social systems quantitatively, etc. As Gerhard pointed out above, the issues listed in the article are not "problems" in the classical scientific sense in the way ones I listed are. While the issues in the article should all probably best approached from a transdisciplinary angle, the issues that I listed are not really amenable to that type of solution.

    My interpretivist thinking has you pinned for a positivists—at any regards, I do believe there are plenty of scientific problems that need to be addressed from an inter-disciplinary perspective. One area of interests for me is universals in human behavior – and I’m talking about primal innate behaviors— sociologist, psychologist, anthropologist, ethologist, and biologist seem to all have license to engage this question— it is a question of nature and it is inter-disciplinary. (Don't get me arguing paradigms ;)

    I agree that there are problems that require an interdisciplinary approach, but the ones listed above are ones that can only be classified as normative science, and engineering problems, not basic science.

    Your question is more descriptive; you are right that universal innate behavior can be an example of something that can be investigated from this transdisciplinary perspective, but I would call it an exception, as a problem amenable to approach in two completely disparate ways. It's not engineering, as the problems in the article are. Of course, there are separate issues that could be addressed by each discipline, once some fundamental questions have been answered. They could also use the approach you suggest, but I won't argue - it's a paradigmatic question, and it can be done in this transdisciplinary way.

    Oh, and I'm not a positivist.

    I think we've elucidated a problem with case studies....How much is it the norm or the exception? Good question.

    Regarding the original post-- social sciences probably blur the lines of their disciplines much more so than earth sciences, astronomy, mathematics, etc. In theory, the social sciences are topical but those divisions don't always hold up—and in some cases more than others.

    I think there is always a tendency to view disciplines as absolute or static but as we know, all things are in a state change—we have to adapt.

    The transdisciplinary argument in the article is based on the idea that we need to find solutions that rely on bringing different fields together. This is completely separate from the perfectly reasonable arguments you make about fluidity of disciplinary boundaries. To be fair, social sciences always had much blurrier lines than the practitioners want to admit.

    Thanks David for the compliment, and you are right (Andrea is advocating constructive solutions). I accept that distinction as the utility of science and interdisciplinary collaboration rather than science itself. ;)

    Any discussion about environment,nutrition,energy,etc.

    I'm afraid I have to agree. Problems like starvation throughout the world, petroleum resources peaking, even global warming are not what I would consider scientific problems--at least not purely scientific. All of the above mentioned problems are more societal and political than scientific. And they all have as at least one of their underlying causes a problem that no one mentions, i.e., overpopulation. Do you think we're burning too many fossil fuels because there aren't enough people in the world? And in turn, do you think there is a global warming problem because there are not enough people in the world? The same with starvation.

    Yes, I know there's more to it than that. Corruption and greed of individuals, governments, the rich and powerful all contribute to these problems. They always have and they probably always will. But the bottom line is that these problems are not due to the laws of physics changing, but rather the stupidity of people. And, that is a problem for which I'm afraid there is no solution.
    Read this originally on IEET, but I wanted to say I think you're really on to something here. The humanities have been rapidly shifting interdisciplinary. One of the major problems, of course, is that the jargon of respective fields doesn't translate and assumptions from one discipline are often dramatically questioned by another. I can only imagine this would be significantly worse in hard science overlap. Did the conference suggest any solutions for integrating fields or standardizing discourse?

    Fred Phillips
    The systems theorists have helped by defining "problem" and kinds of problems. Much of the following is from my colleague Ian Mitroff's new book (co-authored with Abraham Silver) Dirty Rotten Strategies: How we trick ourselves and others into solving the wrong problem precisely (Stanford U. Press 2010).


    • Exercise: A calculation, with a pre-determined solution, for which no external considerations are needed. There is usually only one correct answer. [Note: The "problems" presented at the end of textbook chapters are really excercises, and not problems at all.]


    • Problem: A problem exists when it is not clear what ethical means may achieve a desired set of presumably ethical ends. The problem is to find or to create ethical means to achieve a desired set of ethical ends.


    • Well-structured problem:  a problem for which the means and the ends are well known. One's ethical stance and values are also well known and accepted by a "significant body" of stakeholders. The problem is then to find which of the means are the most efficient in attaining the desired ends.


    • Ill-structured problem:  a problem for which the means and/or ends are unknown and/or for which there exists significant disagreement over what means should be employed to achieve what ends. Stakeholders’ ethical stance and values are in doubt and/or not shared. The problem is to determine the problem, i.e., how to formulate it.


    • Mess: a system of problems such no single problem exists apart from the entire mess of which it is a part.


    • Wicked problem: A problem for which there appears no satisfactory way of determining an appropriate set of means or ends that would obtain sufficient agreement among a diverse set of stakeholders. That is, no currently known discipline, profession, or body of knowledge is sufficient to define the "wickedly complex" nature of the problem.



    Mitroff and Silver add that in addition to the usual Type I and Type II errors, we must consider:

    • Type 3 error: “[unintentionally] solving the wrong problem precisely”; and

    • Type 4 error: Intentionally misleading others about what the true problem is.


    Examples of Type 4 error include the US invasion of Iraq. Perpetrators of Type 4 error include those who claim that high unemployment among native-born Americans means US must “solve the immigration problem.”

    They further note "Six things that are not true":

    1. Textbook exercises are problems.


    2. Problems have only one best solution.


    3. All problems can be clearly specified.


    4. Complex problems can always be ‘analyzed’ into simpler, solvable sub-problems.


    5. Problems don’t change while you are trying to solve them.


    6. You only need tools from one discipline to solve a problem “in that area.” (For example, you need only to know chemistry to solve a chemistry problem.)



    I hope these distinctions aid the discussion. I'll add one that I remember being impressed by when I heard former US Secretary of State George Schulz enunciate it: There are...

    • ... problems that can be solved, e.g., an allocation of Pecos River water that both Texas and New Mexico agree, however reluctantly, is the fairest one possible; and

    • ... problems that we can at best hope to make progress on, for example, peace in the Middle East.


    Gerhard Adam
    Excellent post!
    Fred Phillips
    The implication in the comment thread is that "purely scientific problems" are somehow co-extensive with "well-structured problems," and I don't think that's true. If by "purely scientific" one means a solely techno-mathematical systems analysis, that approach died with Robert McNamara (who actually renounced it himself some years before his death). Systems theory has moved on to balance mathematical analysis with elicitation of the separate realities of constituent groups, using narrative and scenario construction, etc., and respecting psychological and sociological knowledge. The tools of negotiation and structured dialog are themselves science-based.

    I know I'm skirting close to an overly broad take on "science," and risking confusion between science, technology, and knowledge. I bow to Gerhard's views on this.
    logicman
    Fred: I think that the authors you cite have missed the concept of the crazy problem.

    A purely philosophical science problem is an intellectual pursuit of the well-defined proximal cause C of effect E.

    A social problem is the political-economic pursuit of some ill-defined gain G for a population P.

    A crazy problem is how to apply science to the problem of deducing - from individual people's reports of their own mental processes - the well-defined proximal cause of their collective failure to acheive some ill-defined gain G for a population P.
    Andrea Kuszewski
    I can't answer to all of these comments right at this moment, but let me link up Jamie Oliver's TED Prize Wish talk about how we need to educate our children about food.

    Gerhard Adam
    Andrea

    I guess I'm trying to understand what is going on.  I think Jamie Oliver is clearly correct in his ideas, but what does this have to do with science or even technology? 

    What I find frustrating is that there was nothing said that hasn't been known for decades.  Everything that is occurring is because our social and economic models allowed it to occur.  Everything that is being criticized as processed food with little nutritional value comes from the technicians and scientists that took the phrase "better living through chemistry" and turned it into a fast food, artificial flavored mantra.

    The simple truth is that we've felt that corporations should have more right to market their products than the effect that such products would have on the population.  We don't allow drug dealers to sell drugs, because we consider them detrimental to people.  We don't let people self prescribe medications because uninformed choices can be deadly1.  We are attempting to reduce or eliminate smoking because it is unhealthy and we restrict access to alcohol for similar reasons.  We also attempt to ensure that foods that are produced meet certain standards, are not tainted with poisons, or infected with diseases.  We attempt to ensure that what is presented is minimally truthful, so that deception is not considered an acceptable business practice.

    The argument always goes that people have the right to make choices, but that is simply a lie.  As I indicated above, these are not choices people can simply make and it becomes important for us to recognize what the purpose of a society is towards its citizens.

    If it is intended that a population is simply supposed to represent a captive audience against which every corporate interest can ply their persuasion skills to see if it can turn a profit, then we will never succeed.  This isn't a science problem, but rather it is imbedded in the foolishness of greed and the notion that anyone that has an idea to make money has a higher priority than the victims they leave in their wake.

    1 We see the same kinds of corporate abuse occurring with advertisements for prescription drugs on television.  What is the point of advertising drugs to people that, by definition, can't purchase them without a doctor's approval?  The point is that people are supposed to pressure their physicians into writing such prescriptions.  It certainly isn't to keep the public well informed.
    I will say this: Despite the problematic nature of an interdisciplinary approach, in principle I agree that interdisciplinary collaboration is necessary for tackling future problems--scientific or otherwise. And the reason is obvious. Most problems faced are complex and require the expertize of scientists or non-scientific experts from not just one discipline, but many.

    When I graduated from UIC, I graduated with a 100 hours more than I needed; only 180 hours were required. I graduate with 280 hours. The reason why I'm telling you this is because this is not something I planned. I just discovered during my time as an undergraduate that disciplines tend to overlap. So, I found myself studying just about everything. By the time, I was a junior I had more graduate credits than most second-year graduate students. I even got a letter from the Dean of my college which I will quote verbatim, "Dear Mr. Diaz: Would you please finally graduate." No joke! I still have the letter because no one believes me when I tell them the story, and because I though it was funny at the time.

    But anyway, getting back to the interdisciplinary thing, I graduated with so many hours because I saw back then how the disciplines overlap. And this was over 30 years ago! It's even more true now than it was back then. So, I do agree with the premise of your article, Andrea, which is something that I should have said in my first comment.

    But there are problems. As one person mentioned, each discipline has its own lingo and also it's own way of viewing the world. It's not easy to cross the language barriers from one discipline to another. Heck, there are language barriers within disciplines because everything has become so specialized. It's only because I graduated with 280 hours that it is relatively easy for me to cross over the interdisciplinary language barrier. But, there are not a lot of people like me. So, ironically, one of the things that requires interdisciplinary approaches to problems is the very thing that is an impediment to it, namely the fact that things have become so specialized and therefore have become so narrow in their view of the world. : )
    adaptivecomplexity
    When I graduated from UIC, I graduated with a 100 hours more than I needed; only 180 hours were required. I graduate with 280 hours.
    A man after my own heart. I had a hard time choosing what not to take, because there was only so much time in the day.
    Mike
    LOL Michael. It would appear that Andrea, you and I are kindred spirits in this respect! What are Renaissance people such as we supposed to do in an age of specialization?! LOL ;-)
    logicman
    What are Renaissance people such as we supposed to do in an age of specialization?
    Brag?

    (It never did me any harm.)
    ;)
    LOL Patrick! ;-)
    rychardemanne
    Gerhard, I agree with you entirely about the power of corporations to trample on the public and to abuse science for profit and control. From the articles I've written elsewhere, many people just refuse to believe the evidence and keep buying poisonous crap because it is cheap and advertised, so it must be good.

    I could go on a rant but I wanted to touch on another point: that you thought that science solving all the world's problems (as well as creating many of them in the hands of corporations) is a recent phenomenon. Well, I think this aspect of science was precisely what drove the whole scientific revolution in 17th century Britain. Francis Bacon had much to say about the scientific method, but he also promoted science as the solution to improve the 'common wealth'. To him, the greatest inventions were the printing press, gunpowder and the compass, and he wanted Britain to add to these. The spirit of the scientific revolution was the spirit of technology - "knowledge is power" comes from Bacon. The medieval contemplation of the beauty of nature as a manifestation of the almighty had gone (somewhat, although not entirely) and replaced by a mindset in which nature was to be conquered and subjected to human will. We can see where it has got us today. But it isn't a new philosophy, it is the same philosophy of 400 years ago.

    I think one problem is one of language. Science likes to think of itself as showing a clean pair of hands while all the dirty tricks are done by technologists. But science and technology are the same, however when did you ever hear of a science company? We have lots of infotech companies, biotech, nanotech and so on, but nothing is ever "Made with Science". The marketing guys at Intel are geniuses. They realised that nobody would know what was in their computer unless they had a label on the outside telling them. "Intel Inside" is marketing genius. Not having "Made with Science" means science can keep clean, but out of sight is also out of mind for the public.
    Gerhard and Rycharde, you have both made excellent points.

    Rycharde, what you said about Francis Bacon is true and the 17th century mindset in which nature was to be conquered and subjected to human will is more true today than it ever was.

    Gerhard, your points about corporations are right on the money. And the recent Supreme court decision stating that corporations are "individuals" and therefore have the same protection under 14th amendment as individuals, thus allowing under the 1st amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech to quite literally buy the U.S. government certainly hasn't helped the situation much. And now corporation have Carte Blanche to buy off as many policy makers as they choose.

    A corporation is obviously not a person and therefore is not entitled to the same protection under the 14th amendment to the US Constitution as is a person. This needs to be spelled out in an amendment to the Constitution to prevent the Supreme Court from ever making such a ruling as the one that it did regarding corporations."

    Our founding fathers did recognize the need for the separation of Church and State, but unfortunately there was no way they could have anticipated the need for the separation of Corporations and State. The industrial revolution was in its infancy at the time and the only tyranny with which the founding fathers were familiar was that of monarchies, oligarchies and religious bodies. So, this is what they responded to.

    A corporation is not a person and therefore is not entitled to the same protection under the 14th amendment to the US Constitution as is a person. This needs to be spelled out in an amendment to the Constitution to prevent the Supreme Court from ever making such a ruling as the one that it did recently regarding corporations."

    Our founding fathers did recognize the need for the separation of Church and State, but unfortunately there was no way they could have anticipated the need for the separation of Corporations and State. The industrial revolution was in its infancy at the time and the only tyranny with which the founding fathers were familiar was that of monarchies, oligarchies and religious bodies. So, this is what they responded to. However, they had enough foresight to realize that conditions change and that the Constitution may in the future need to be amended.

    Throughout the ages there have been times when it falls upon the individual to make a choice that will decide the fate of all humankind. Such a time is upon us. Once again, as through the centuries, the powerful try to trample upon the helpless. It is at a time such as this that each individual's strength and heart are put to the test.

    We are one people, descendant of those who refused to give into tyranny and staked their lives upon what they believed to be right in their hearts and minds. They, against insurmountable odds, fought courageously and prevailed against the tyranny that would have had them tortured and hanged as traitors for their rebellion. It is they who gave us the rule of law. It is they to whom we owe the greatest debt for our Constitution of the United States of America. Can we show any less conviction and courage to fight and defend our rights as American citizens? We need an amendment to the Constitution of the United States that explicitly states that no corporation, no body of power and corruption can ever deny us our rights and liberties as human beings. We don't just fight for American citizens. We fight for the rights of all human beings across the globe!

    Darn! And, I was trying so hard to avoid talking about politics. But this is the true state of affairs. And, unfortunately science is a culprit in this as Rycharde pointed out. This is the true reason why I left academia. When I started as an undergraduate at the tender age of 17 back in 1973, a university was, as one of my professors put it, "an island of sanity". But by the 1980s already I could see that universities were being transmogrified to my horror into corporate like structures. The pressure to publish at a major research institution such as my alma mater, UIC to get grant money became insane. Faculty were so desperate, that out and out plagiarism became common place. And I mean no offense to the scholars in this forum and this is certainly not directed at anyone here. But that was the state of affairs at the time and it is much worse now. And, I wanted no part of the evil which I saw going around me, so I decided to stop and not go for my Ph.D. Originally it had been my dream to have become a professor. But even one of my mentors, Dr. Eric Carlson who was head of the education department at the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum and Professor Emeritus said to me on one occasion, "At one time being a professor was a genteel profession." He went on to say, "But now it has become cutthroat and ruthless for the most part." And this was a man who had been a part of academia all of his life! So he understood perfectly how I felt. And he confirmed for me that what I was perceiving was not just my imagination.

    Now, I have friends who are university professors with whom I stay in touch with via email. And I have nothing but the highest admiration for them. But as far as I'm concerned with regards to academia as a whole, you might as well replace the title of 'Chancellor' with 'Chief Executive Officer'. These are no longer bastions of learning, with a few exceptions. These have become the training grounds for future corporate scholars! That may seem like a terribly cynical view, but that's how I honestly see things.

    OK, that's enough ranting for one day.

    P.S.

    Poor Andrea. Here she posted an account of what was an uplifting and inspiring experience for her and some how it has turned into a bitter discussion of all the we perceive to be wrong with the world. My apologies, Andrea for my part in this. But look on the bright side. At least you sparked a pretty heavy-duty discussion! You must have touch a nerve somewhere! LOL ;-)
    Andrea Kuszewski
    Don't feel sorry for me, Eric! While it was indeed a positive and uplifting experience for me, I knew that I would push some buttons by writing about it.

    The fact is, Michael is absolutely right. We don't just need to get a bunch of experts from every field together, the scientists themselves need to expose themselves to more knowledge outside their immediate small niche.

    I tend to work this way automatically, because, like you, I took way more credits from every discipline than I needed to graduate, switched my major a few times, etc. I took every single psychology course that my University offered, and made my way through other majors-  philosophy, literature, biology, physics, political science, physiology- you name it. Then after working as a therapist for a few years, I decided to go to art school to study Biomedical Art, to learn visual communication of scientific concepts, then went into research once again, and back into the clinical psychology field, and now I do a little of everything.

    I draw inspiration from every domain, and I look to every field for answers when I am working on a scientific problem. I keep up (the best I can) on recent developments across all scientific fields, and don't limit my thinking to just psychology or neuroscience, just because that is what the majority of my training is in. Now, I understand not everyone is as diverse as I am in my multi-tasking-science-and-society in a very ADD kind of way, but we can accomplish more if we communicate with others in different fields, and gain unique perspectives by listening to how other types of scientists and researchers view the same problem.

    In fact, that is what we are all doing RIGHT NOW in this comment thread: transdisciplinary communication of ideas. There you go- I tricked you into doing the very thing some of you are denying is a good solution. ;)

    Thanks for all of the comments!
    LOL Andrea! It would appear you did!

    It's nice to know that I'm not the only one in the world who drove the Dean of his college nuts by delving into so many disciplines. LOL ;-)
    Andrea Kuszewski
    You see, I had to wait a little while to jump in on this conversation until y'all started discussing it in detail and proving my point for me. ;)

    And yes, I think I could go back and take a semester or two of classes and get a few additional degrees if I wanted. Well, maybe more than a few semesters, but you get the idea.

    And in response to your comment about what we are to do in this age of specialization.... because we are well-versed in more than one area, people like us are in higher demand, especially in research consulting. You just need to be a little creative in your search for the types of employment that best utilize your skills.
    Oh, I know Andrea. What I meant is what are Renaissance people such as we supposed to do other than take far more classes in college than we needed in order to graduate, which is exactly what Michael, you and I did. ;-)
    adaptivecomplexity
    I'll add something tangential to this fun discussion. When we talk about interdisciplinary work, we need to nurture not just interdisciplinary collaborations, but interdisciplinary individuals.

    Sean Eddy, a molecular biologist turned computational biologist, put it this way:

    It's also depressing to read that the National Institutes of Health thinks that science has become too hard for individual humans to cope with, and that it will take the hive mind of an interdisciplinary “research team of the future” to make progress. But what's most depressing comes from purely selfish reasons: if groundbreaking science really requires assembling teams of people with proper credentials from different disciplines, then I have made some very bad career moves....

    Focusing on interdisciplinary teams instead of interdisciplinary people reinforces standard disciplinary boundaries rather than breaking them down. An interdisciplinary team is a committee in which members identify themselves as an expert in something else besides the actual scientific problem at hand, and abdicate responsibility for the majority of the work because it's not their field. Expecting a team of disciplinary scientists to develop a new field is like sending a team of monolingual diplomats to the United Nations.

    Progress is driven by new scientific questions, which demand new ways of thinking. You want to go where a question takes you, not where your training left you.
    Mike
    I agree with that wholeheartedly, Michael. I especially like the two concluding sentences:

    Progress is driven by new scientific questions, which demand new ways of thinking. You want to go where a question takes you, not where your training left you.
    That has always been the way I have approached things. And fortunately for me, I have a very curious mind and love to learn new things. And this forum fosters that kind of multidisciplinary type of thinking just by virtue of exchanging ideas with other people from other disciplines. I mean, I enjoy reading articles by you and others from other disciplines, especially about things that I don't already know, just as much as I enjoy writing about things in which I have expertize. Actually, I probably enjoy the reading part more than the writing. LOL ;-)
    rychardemanne
    Renaissance scientists blog about it!

    It's good to find others like myself who just can't keep still inside their own box. I thought the history of mathematics and science would be broad enough to encompass everything, but I didn't finish my PhD either, as I started getting consultancy and book writing contracts. Then the Maths school was closed down and assimilated within the Business School borg and that was the end of that!

    I was actually close to getting a 2nd book contract but ran into an unusual problem. This was a big famous university publisher who had already published my first book. But the second book was to be a history of mathematics in human culture, thereby including things like architecture, music, art and not just the sciences. I had already smuggled a chapter on mathematics and art into the first book to test the water. The TD nature of the book meant that everyone on the editorial committee had something to say... and they thought I just couldn't know everything about everything! The proposal went into a holding pattern until I ran out of motivation. That was 10 years ago: have things changed?

    I still don't know what to do with all the connections, so blogging is therapy.

    I also agree that it is possible to bring together transdisciplinary (TD - too long to type!) people rather than teams of specialists. Although I read recently one researcher say that the hive mind does produce results more quickly as a network of researchers speeds up those flashes of inspiration as different people will solve different bits of the puzzle.
    Blogging is therapy for people like us. The multidisciplinary format of this forum also enables us to express those connections as we connect with other people here from various disciplines. And we do inspire each other. Several articles that I have written were inspired by something that I read that someone else here had written. And not just articles but comments like this one.

    I believe that TD people such as we do work better in a team with other TD people, as opposed to a team of specialists. And I'm finding more and more that quite a few people here are TD people.

    I too have studied the history of art, architecture, music and literature; I was only one credit short of declaring English literature as a second major. If my scholarship and grant hadn't run out when it did, and I had had just one more quarter, I could have declared 4 more majors. But instead I have 4 minors: geology, classics (which includes 2 years of Latin), English literature and the history of art and architecture.

    The funny thing of it all is that I started out as a physics major but became more and more drawn to the humanities and other sciences such as geology and organic chemistry as time went by. And then after graduation I devoted myself to the study of astronomy and astrophysics at the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum.

    They have a wonderful educational program at the Adler, with professors of astronomy and astrophysics from all of the major research institutions, such as the University of Chicago, with which the Adler is affiliated, Northwestern University, Loyola University and of course my alma mater UIC. Plus I was lucky enough to become friends with the head of the education department at the Adler who became a mentor to me.

    So, I understand your frustration with what happened with your second book contract. And I can empathize as well. It is very difficult to convince other people that you have expertize in many areas. And you do lose motivation after awhile. You figure what's the point. I've have had similar experiences like yours. That's why I can empathize.

    What were really talking about here is the decline in our universities of a well-rounded Liberal Arts and Sciences education. During the Enlightenment this was what was considered the best approach. In fact, at that time people didn't specialize unless they were going for a doctorate.

    Many people don't know this, but Sir Isaac Newton only had a masters degree. He never went for his Ph.D.. And another thing that people don't know about Sir Isaac Newton is that he wrote more on religion and alchemy than on any other subject. These manuscripts were kept hidden for a long time, because what Newton believed and wrote about Christianity was considered heresy and his experiments in alchemy were frowned upon, even though many scholars at the time were performing experiments in alchemy.

    The systematic way in which Newton went about his alchemy experiments was more akin to modern chemistry than alchemy. Today, scholars regard Newton's work in alchemy as an early form of modern chemistry.

    Because of his religious views; he did not believe in the Divinity of Christ; he requested that he be excused from the obligation of being ordained as a minister, which was a requirement of all faculty of Trinity College at Cambridge University at the time. I don't know if that's still true today, but it was then.

    So, actually we're following a very traditional way of learning that has been the standard since the Middle Ages in universities. It's only been in the last few decades that this has changed and everything has become so specialized.

    But you're right. You can't take about mathematics without about things like architecture, music, art. Look at Pythagoras. He believed that their was a direct correlation to math and music. Musica Universalis or Music of the Spheres is ancient concept that regards the proportions of the movement of celestial bodies as music. Even Johannes Kepler, one of the greatest mathematicians of his time, used this concept of the connection between music and the cosmos in his Harmonice Mundi Harmony of the Worlds in 1619. It wasn't the kind of music which you hear, but rather a harmony of motion. And to a large degree that is true. For example, we certainly have planets in our solar system and in exoplanetary system that are in resonant orbits.

    I'm afraid you just can't get very narrowed-minded people (and there are a lot of them out there) to believe that it's possible for one individual to be well-verse in a wide variety of disciplines. I guess what I'm trying to say is that specialization hasn't just become a practice become it has become a mindset in our society--a very dangerous and destructive mindset in my opinion.
    rychardemanne
    I've read Kepler's Harmonice Mundi and it's a beautiful piece of TD thinking and, as you say, conceptually correct in terms of resonant orbits, just 400 years too early. Also, in terms of Newton's alchemy, my own feeling is that alchemy at the time was closer to our elementary particle physics in terms of looking at the most fundamental structures of nature, so I wasn't shocked at the revelation.

    I haven't studied in the US but get the feeling that Liberal Arts colleges are looked down upon by many scientists and have very little science taught at them. Although also called Liberal Arts, the medieval syllabus was heavily mathematical. The Liberal Arts were logic, grammar and rhetoric, plus arithmetic, music (practical arithmetic), geometry and astronomy (practical geometry). [I'm sure you know that, Eric, was just for the benefit of anybody who doesn't.] The actual level of knowledge was often very poor, but out of this grew science as some European universities opened an Arts faculty next to their Theology one. Also worth bearing in mind that the word 'art' had a much wider meaning at the time, referring to any practical knowledge, or arte, and did not make a distinction between scientific or artistic knowledge. The Italian 'scuole d'abbaco' would often teach arithmetic, accounting, geometry, navigation, painting, sculpture, architecture and so on, somewhat like a polytechnic.

    I think hugely ironic that science grew out of the arts and, knowing this to be the case, people on both sides of these two cultures should promote collaboration and not hostility.
    I couldn't agree more, Rycharde. They should promote collaboration instead of hostility.

    During the Renaissance even the artists guilds taught their students how to make just about anything. The Renaissance artist was more of an artist/engineer than anything else. Probably the two best examples were of course Leonardo da Vinci and Filippo Brunelleschi. I mean when you think about how these two men revolutionized our thinking, it's just simply awe-inspiring.

    Even Einstein was quoted as having said, "I consider myself more of an artist than a scientist."
    logicman
    Overspecialisation is bad at the personal economic level.  A highly skilled flint miner is out of work just as soon as the first bronze axe gets smelted.  It's no use picketing Grime's Graves, my old china - the future is bronze.
    A really exiting and uplifting blog andrea,it's great to know this "cross pollination of ideas" is taking place.Without doubt the greatest problem the world has to face is war,famine desease and death.If we could stop all war ,the other problems would disappear{including all competition which is wastefull].Science i'm afraid is a major contributor to war.mayeby we should form a kind of scientists union and refuse to get involved in it{go on strike in support of each other. What do you think.?