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    What does one mean by equality?
    By Robert H Olley | December 31st 2011 11:17 AM | 10 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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    One nice features of Science 2.0 is the way it links to Science Codex and Real Clear Science.  The latter of these sometimes directs me to a journal called The Atlantic, in which I read

    What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland's School Success

    The Scandinavian country is an education superpower because it values equality more than excellence.
    I’m a bit puzzled.  It sounds just a bit too much like one of those Reader’s Digest articles one useed to read while in a doctor’s or dentist’s waiting room. 

    Any thoughts?

    Comments

    Hank
    The writer positive gushes about how many lessons we could learn from them - like banning private schools and putting equality before excellence.  But at least in America we don't want a homogenized research operation and we don't want to compete with China for the most average scientist and engineer and the best standardized tests. There is no world class research coming from Finland. Texas alone has 4 more world class universities than all of Finland has.

    The progressives in America who love that socialism in education stuff also forget Finland allows bad teachers to be fired and the teacher's unions in the US will never go for that.
    —
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    Hank Campbell | 12/31/11 | 13:26 PM
    Gerhard Adam
    I'm not sure that your conclusion is warranted, since it suggests somehow that equality is obtained by reducing learning standards.  One of the items that struck me was that equality was being stressed regarding the quality of education, as well as its accessibility.

    I would think that if we are truly interested in promoting the "best and the brightest" that we wouldn't create so many financial impediments to its achievement.  How many "world-class" scientists are we ignoring simply because the accessibility to an education isn't there?  In addition, in many cases where people do acquire the education, they are forced to work off an onerous debt for the privilege. 

    Regardless of what the specific solution might be, in the U.S., it is clear that the "best education" is one that requires economic power more than mental power.  Education is something that isn't particularly valued, and for those people that somehow do make it through, it is an obstacle course that seems more intent on preventing them from succeeding than promoting it.
    Gerhard Adam | 12/31/11 | 16:33 PM
    "There is no world class research coming from Finland. Texas alone has 4 more world class universities than all of Finland has."
    You clearly are not trying to make friends with Finnish scientists, are you...? Or maybe you just want to poke them a little to get them out from their holes and join Science 2.0 conversation. ;-) I would be interested to know how you define "no" and "world class" in those sentences...

    Besides, I fail to see any causal connection between the question of school systems and whether there is something for USA to learn from the finns, and how high Finnish universities are rated in some international surveys.

    I didn't know bad teachers can be kicked out in Finland. Where is that information from, and on what grounds can a bad teacher be fired? As far as I know, the employer must have a pretty damn good grounds to fire anyone with a permanent contract. I imagine the "badness" must be quite well defined and shown before anyone can be fired.

    Sakari Laaksonen (not verified) | 01/02/12 | 05:08 AM
    UvaE
    Quality of research and quality of elementary and high schools are separate issues. In fact in the United States, at least in the sciences, there is a huge gulf between the quality and standards of undergrad science education and graduate schools.

    It takes money to set up good research programs and to attract the best minds. Texas has the financial resources.
    Enrico Uva | 01/02/12 | 07:41 AM
    Hank
    I love Finland and Finns. Without Finland, a huge chunk of Europe has no language or people. But Finland has different priorities than the US today - as the puff piece I linked to shows, the priority is equality and not excellence. Some people like that, of course, clearly the Finns do, and that is fine. Finland still produces some quality work and we run pieces from there all of the time;  National Failure Day and how nude bodies make us see better, for example.

    The Finns are the ones saying they fire bad teachers, it isn't something I invented. If that is not the case, then that education system is even more unworkable. The writer in The Atlantic thinks more socialism is the answer but it isn't; the answer is taking shackles off of the education industry and caring about education instead of considering it a job works plan or an engine for social justice issues.


    —
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    Hank Campbell | 01/02/12 | 11:54 AM
    Well, it's good to know someone loves us! Although you have an odd way of expressing it. Anyway, I agree about the Finnish schools producing a lot of mediocrity. It has nothing to do with schools being public or private, though. There is no reason why talented or otherwise eager learners couldn't be given a chance to use their talent maximally in public schools. Unfortunately Finnish politicians and civil servants think that it's equality to teach everyone the same things, which it of course isn't. Equality would be to give everyone the possibility to learn according to one's talent, ability and interests. That way much more excellence would be produced, and PISA results would still be good.

    Master's degree per se doesn't make anyone a good teacher, but it doesn't hurt to have a degree, either. What's probably more important is, that in Finland new teaching methods, based on research of how people learn efficiently, have been actively put to use in classrooms (or that's at least what I've been told, I'm not an expert of the subject). This is also something that has nothing to do with whether the system is "socialist" or private. If teachers know what they are doing why, and are motivated, and talent is utilized properly, there will be results.

    I'm not saying that teachers can't be fired in Finland, I just don't know and was surprised. That's why I asked about the source. And as I said, I believe that employers have a hard time sacking people in any sector without good grounds, and that's how it should be. But, if the teacher material is overall well educated and motivated, then the need to fire teachers is a minor problem.

    Here's another piece of Finnish (- British) research "excellence" for your entertainment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality . Just happened to come across it. I'm not sure if I should be mad or amused about it.

    Sakari Laaksonen (not verified) | 01/02/12 | 14:38 PM
    Hank
    Well, it's good to know someone loves us! Although you have an odd way of expressing it.
    Why?  The Finns are terrific people but they have let well meaning lead to a government that mandates artificial equality at the expense of the good of the country.  That's why the impending benefits crisis in Finland is a worry - the government has made it unnecessary for anyone to exceed so there are more takers than givers.    You may also like Americans even while you disagree with the American government.

    I think we agree that allowing equal opportunity is much different than mandating equality.  It's a cultural placebo to try and mandate equal results, like an average student.  The Chinese do it and also do well on standardized tests but they also have very little creativity as a result.
    —
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    Hank Campbell | 01/02/12 | 16:01 PM
    UvaE
    What I see as key factors contributing to Finland's educational success:

    From the article:
    (1)
    In Finland, a master's degree is required to enter the profession, and teacher training programs are among the most selective professional schools in the country.
    (2)
    The main driver of education policy is not competition between teachers and between schools, but cooperation.
    Lists of "best schools" are awful and often dubious, yet people abide by them, and so they draw a lot of good students away from  really decent schools.  When I started teaching there was less competition between schools. Now, everyone is trying to come up with a gimmick to steer kids away from the next school, whether it's public or private. The gimmicks take energy away from staff, and ultimately students suffer.

    Not mentioned in article(unless I read it too fast!)

    (3)  Finland enjoys a small educational bureaucracy.
    Enrico Uva | 01/01/12 | 07:49 AM
    Hank
    I am not sure what he means by small.  They have a giant government presence in everything, it just may be small in education compared to the rest of society.  If you need a CEO for your company, for example, and the current ratio of CEOs is not equal women to men, you have to put a woman in the job whether she is the best person or not.

    In the US, we could do with a lot less bureaucracy.  In California, 40% of our taxes goes toward education yet teachers end up buying a lot of supplies themselves.  The reason is administration, but those can't be easily cut either, since they are both government workers and unionized. A Master's Degree does not make a good teacher, any more than a Master's Degree makes a good musician - it is just an endurance contest.   But being able to fire bad teachers, just like you can fire a bad musician, is something we could adopt and have a big improvement in the US.
    —
    Want more no-nonsense, independent science? Buy Science Left Behind
    Hank Campbell | 01/01/12 | 12:04 PM
    UvaE
    I am not sure what he means by small.

    It's much smaller than ours in Quebec on a per capita basis, and moreover it doesn't stick its Sasquatch mentality and feet into everything:

    The National Board of Education (NBE)in Finland approves the national framework curriculum,but municipalities and schools are obliged to prepare the school curriculum, and have right to choose textbooks and select instructional methods. Teachers also create their own ways to measure student progress, and learning-oriented assessment is an integral part of daily school life.
    Source:  2006 World Bank Report

    Master's degree doesn't make a good teacher
    I wasn't so impressed by the Master's requirement but by the fact that the "teacher training programs are among the most selective professional schools in the country." Public school administrators in North America complain about ineffective teachers, but the power to fire would hardly be needed if they were trained properly in the first place.
    Enrico Uva | 01/01/12 | 16:53 PM