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    Tevatron: Evidence Of The Higgs In B-Bbar Final States
    By Tommaso Dorigo | July 31st 2012 05:40 AM | 19 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
    About Tommaso

    I am an experimental particle physicist working with the CMS experiment at CERN. In my spare time I play chess, abuse the piano, and aim my dobson...

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    The Tevatron experiments have jointly published on the arxiv two days ago a paper which is titled "Evidence for a particle produced in association with weak bosons and decaying to a bottom-antibottom quark pair in the search for the Higgs boson at the Tevatron collider". You can get the paper in the arxiv.

    The article is the final chapter of a more than decade-long search for the Higgs boson at the Tevatron. In fact I should say two-decade-long, since the first searches started almost twenty years ago. I have been a member of the CDF collaboration (one of the two collaborations that jointly produced the paper; the other is of course DZERO, the other experiment at the Tevatron collider) since 1992, and I spent over half of my research time there on the topic of the search of resonances decaying into b/bbar states. So this post is from an insider, if you will. This specification is needed as an introduction to my personal views on some details of the matter, which I express below.

    The facts

    First of all let us discuss the facts, i.e. what the paper says. This is a combination of results of Higgs boson searches by CDF and DZERO restricted to the cases when the Higgs boson decays into a bottom-antibottom quark pair: other searches are neglected here. There are various channels that enter this combined result, all having the common trait of assuming that the particle decaying to bbbar is produced together with a W or a Z boson, as the Higgs is predicted to do in one of its production channels in hadron collisions.

    So we have ppbar->WH, with W going to electron-neutrino and muon-neutrino pairs; ppbar->ZH, with Z going to electron pairs or muon pairs, and ppbar->ZH, with Z going to neutrinos. These searches have a common trait in the triggers, which rely on the leptons (electrons candidates, muon candidates, or missing transverse energy signalling the escape of energetic neutrinos), and the application of multivariate techniques to reduce backgrounds. Multivariate techniques are also used to boost the b-tagging identification inside jets. All searches then concentrate on the invariant mass of the pair of b-quark tagged jets, after a mass-dependent optimization of cuts.

    It is impossible to do justice to all these analyses in a post, so the above description is all I can offer as far as the analysis techniques are concerned. The result of the combination of the various channels across the two experiments is offered using both a Bayesian technique and the CLs frequentist criterion; both are well-known technology in this business.

    The collaborations observe an excess of events at the highest values of signal discriminant, which makes their upper limit on the signal cross section weaker than expected. They test the null hypothesis (that the data only contains background) and find that the p-value has a dip in the 120-135 GeV region, with a minimum value corresponding to 3.3 standard deviations, at 135 GeV. When corrected for the multiplicity of places where a signal is sought, this becomes a 3.1 sigma effect.

    Perhaps the most intriguing figure in the paper is the one shown on the right, where the mass distribution of the excess of b-tagged events over non-electroweak background processes is shown and compared to the predicted excess due to production of WZ (in red), ZZ (in yellow) and VH (in green) processes. The Tevatron data clearly shows the two WZ and ZZ processes (where one Z boson decayed to b-quark pairs, thereby generating the observed bump in the dijet mass distribution); as for the Higgs, one could believe that the high point at 120-140 GeV is due to it, or could rather question the dips at 20-60 and 180-220 GeV. Your pick.

    Diatriba mode on


    And here, dear reader, comes the part where I need to express my views. I know that by doing this I may upset some of my CDF colleagues, even ones that have worked very hard for years on the Higgs decay to b-quark pairs (but so I did). Let me apologize to them pre-emptively: I know that having a blog is a privilege, which allows one to speak to an audience, and I usually do not use that privilege to broadcast views in opposition to those of collaborations to which I take part. This is just being professional, of course. But in this case I will make an exception, because I do not believe I am hurting anybody's interests or damaging CDF (or DZERO) in any way if I express my personal views on this matter. Still, I apologize if this article feels inappropriate to them.

    So, the heart of the matter for me is the following: I have been in the CDF collaboration for twenty years, and I do not recall that in the past we ever claimed evidence for a new particle or process with a similarly marginal backing; that is, we did it for one process -single top production- which we were convinced was there by force: but that is just the exception that confirms the rule.

    In the past 25 years CDF has been appreciated for its very careful approach to research in HEP, both in the depth and thoroughness of the internal review of all its results and in its conservative stand when publishing measurements.

    Since the nineties, CDF has set a very high standard in the field. I have been at both ends of the barricades when heated discussions took place within my collaboration on whether a potential new signal or anomalous effect was worth to be published or should be kept private until more studies could be carried out, and I was often surprised by the overly cautious approach of some of my colleagues, who would e.g. be willing to wait and sit on a controversial result -even for months, or years!, rather than present it to the outside world "as is". In truth, I most of the times criticized this approach, on the basis that I found it silly that 500 physicists would keep 5000 more oblivious of a potential signal, when this could stimulate new theoretical developments. Why keeping it secret ? To protect reputations and careers ? I found this attitude not quite scientific.

    On the other hand, the publication of anomalous effects was always a very painful delivery, whereby all claims originally contained in versions 0.x and 1.x of paper drafts would be toned down and caveats of all sorts would be added, to make it clear to the readers of our papers that we were publishing our results without supporting this or that interpretation, just to make them known to the outside world. We would publish since we considered that we had done all that was possible to verify the correctness of our results, but were not taking a stand on their meaning yet. I recall several discussions on whether a 2.x sigma effect should be quantified in the abstract or left in the middle of page fourteen, to deemphasize it. Words such as "evidence", "anomalous", "discrepancy" were red flags for an active pool of internal censors.

    I can also recall at least a dozen cases when controversial situations arose in CDF; the controversy was often first on the correctness of the result, and then when a result could not be withheld indefinitely, it moved on the wording in the drafts and the way to interpret it in a publication. The whole thing often entailed heated debates of all kinds, name-calling, slammed doors, and retaliation acts not always of academic nature. The scientific process is not always smooth sailing, indeed. Yet it can still be healthy and effective even if it needs to at times border the inappropriateness of physical confrontation among colleagues!

    Despite all the internal digestion pains, to the outside CDF always presented a very professional, consistent "feet on the ground" approach on interpreting its results. And to my memory a 3-sigma effect was never emphasized the way I see it done in the Higgs combination paper.

    What makes the difference ? Now the one below is my personal opinion, and as I said I did not participate in the review process of the draft, so please take this as a disclaimer that I am not writing on behalf of anybody but myself. To me, the source of the difference appears to be the fact that the LHC experiments have in the meantime produced a 5-sigma evidence of the presence of a Higgs-boson like particle in their data.

    I am saying this because I believe that if the LHC had not seen the Higgs at 125 GeV, and the Tevatron were still planning to collect more data, the Tevatron Higgs combination would not be phrased this way.  Claiming evidence for a new particle based on 3-sigma excess coming from a mix of multivariate analyses would be most likely avoided, due to the fear that the 3 sigma would later be found to be just due to a background fluctuation. Careers would be at stake: this would force a more careful wording. No "evidence" in the abstract, none in the conclusions. Maybe not even the number 3 in the abstract either.

    So, I am led to believe that the choice of writing that the Tevatron data shows "evidence" for the Higgs decay into b-bbar comes from the clear belief that the Higgs is indeed there. So far so good: indeed, everybody is by now convinced. One is then bound to ask: why not writing this in the paper ? The paper mentions past searches of the Higgs, and has a references for the earlier Higgs searches and detailed descriptions of the upper and lower mass bounds. When it comes to mentioning the 5-sigma observation of July 4th, however, the paper relegates this note in the references.

    I can hear the objection: "oh, but that is not a published result". Let me answer single-wordedly to that: bullshit. Communication of science these days is made in real time. Heuer announced the discovery to the world on July 4th, and no peer-reviewed journal can subvert that fact.

    I would have made a quite different editorial choice, more transparent in this respect: I would have written one line of introduction on past searches of the Higgs in place of the 18 lines of the right column of page 6. Sufficed to say: "the LHC experiments have reported observing the Higgs boson at 125 GeV. If this is the SM Higgs, we have good sensitivity to the bb decay channel. This paper therefore focuses on that signature: if we see a signal at 125 GeV, it is probably contributed by Higgs decays, so we can measure stuff with it." Okay, I would find a better wording for "stuff", but you got my point.

    Omitting such a statement in the text means that one wants to work independently on that datum. Indeed, the search spans 50 GeV (from 100 to 150) and this is anyway a meaningful thing to do - it allows one to verify one's background estimates away from the putative signal region. But then, why should one say, as is written in the abstract and the conclusions,

    "We interpret this result as evidence of the presence of a particle that is produced in association with a W or a Z boson and decays to a bottom-antibottom quark pair."

    making no mention of the LHC having established the Higgs existence, that is, as if this could be said in a paper independently of the LHC find ?

    Please note that even such subtle details as writing the word "evidence", "interpret as", and repeating them twice in a paper have in the past raised heated debates even when the observed effects were of much larger significance.

    So, here it is: I am in disagreement with the emphasis that is given in this paper to the observed effect in the data. The Higgs is certainly there at 125 GeV where the LHC experiments have found it, but the 3.1-sigma 135-GeV excess found by the Tevatron experiments (or if you prefer, the 2.8-sigma excess found at 125 GeV) might well be a background fluctuation if we did not know about the LHC observation. Actually, it could well be a background fluke anyway!

    A background fluctuation where the signal sits ??!! Yes, quite possible -actually, we know already that a fluctuation occurred in Tevatron data, since the observed excess is twice as large as the one expected for a SM Higgs; so this may be either a signal or a background fluke, but a fluke it certainly is (unless, of course, we marry improbable hypotheses of Higgs bosons with weird couplings, large for fermions in the US and large for bosons in Europe).

    Please look at the figure on the right, taken by Fig.6 in the paper. There you can see the observed p-value in black, and dashed is instead the p-value that the experiments predicted they would observe if there were a Higgs particle in their data. At 135 GeV, the point which crosses the magic "3-sigma evidence" line, the Higgs signal would just be expected to produce a one-sigmaish deviation (for 125 GeV, the sensitivity is of just 1.5 sigma). If there is a Standard Model Higgs boson in the data, the two additional standard deviations at 135 GeV may well be due to the background fluctuating up, not the signal.

    In other words, the Tevatron claim of seeing evidence for the Higgs boson is based on observing a fluctuation which is much larger than that expected for a Higgs. This is of course also reflected by the measured signal rate, which is twice the predicted one even for the 125 GeV mass point (which of course would not be emphasized in the paper if the LHC experiments had not found a particle there...).

    Should I sign the paper ?

    Now, the question becomes even more a personal one.

    I am a member of the CDF collaboration, but have been unable to follow the review process of this paper -and thus to fight against the discovery tone of the text, or for a more open clarification that the interpretation of the excess is influenced by the LHC find. My fault, of course.

    Yet, there still is one possibility left for me: taking my name off the publication. Note, this is allowed in CDF, and it is not infrequently done, for a variety of reasons. Nobody really gets upset anymore if a colleague decides to avoid signing a paper: we all have the right to do so, and in fact new schemes for signing papers with an "opt in" procedure are under study.

    So I think that taking my name off the Tevatron Higgs search paper is a serious possibility. Indeed, it could be even deemed advisable to do so, given that I am also signing CMS papers on the same subject, which are in some way in competition with the CDF Higgs search.

    As far as the ethical issue above is concerned, I believe I need to consult with other colleagues who are in the same situation; but in the meantime I also ask for your advice in the light of the opinions I have expressed on the tone of the paper. Before I do, I need to provide you with some required input on the matter, though. The input concerns my personal contribution to Tevatron Higgs searches in precisely the final state which has been used to find this 3-sigma effect.

    So please consider:

    - I have spent over a decade in CDF on the topic of reconstructing b-quark-pair resonances, with the explicit aim of one day seeing the Higgs boson decay in that final state. I started in 1996, when I was the first in CDF (or DZERO, for that matter) to search for the decay of the Z boson to b-quark pairs, a process which is as close as possible to the Higgs decay. Of course, the Z is produced with a over 1000-times higher rate, so the matter could be pursued even with the smaller Run I dataset that CDF had gathered in 1992-96. When I started to search for the Z->bb process I remember very well the reaction of many colleagues. Wei-Ming Yao, for instance, who is one esteemed colleague from Berkeley, and one of the fathers of b-tagging in CDF, said at a meeting "it is impossible, the background is too high" when I asked him if anybody was trying to search for Z->bb (I was still considering whether that would become my PhD thesis topic, which it did). Another esteemed colleague, Jonathan Lewis, when I spoke to him about my search in order to get his advice on muon triggers, had this reaction: "So this is just a check, right ? Why else would one want to search for Z->bb ?". Those where the reactions in 1997 in CDF to my attempts at finding a resonance decaying into bbbar pairs, which I had already convinced myself was the necessary precondition to search for a light Higgs.

    - Despite the bad karma around, I did find a signal, defended a PhD thesis on the topic, and later on contributed to a Tevatron Run II study on finding the Higgs, which had a section showing how one could find bbbar resonances, describing the new found Z->bb signal. Later, as Run II begun I helped design a trigger that specifically collected the Z->bb decays which were also by then recognized as an asset for the reduction of the b-jet energy scale. In 2005, as convener of the Jet Energy and Resolution working group in CDF, I furthered those studies with a small group of collaborators (most of the work then was done by Julien Donini, now a professor at Grenoble but back then a post-doc in Padova). We produced a larger signal of Z->bb decays, extracted the b-jet energy scale from it, and published a NIM paper on the topic.

    - I of course worked in many other ways at the specific topic of Higgs searches in CDF, but I guess it is irrelevant to list them here at this point. Maybe worth quoting, however, is a seminal study I did in 2003 when I participated in the Higgs Sensitivity Working Group, which was to assess the Tevatron chances for a Higgs discovery. Together with Luca Scodellaro, a graduate student in Padova, we demonstrated that the resolution to the Higgs boson mass in the dijet final state could be significantly improved with specialized multi-variable algorithms, such that the signal observability would be increased. By the way, note that the 2003 study aimed at demonstrating the usefulness of a upgrade of the silicon tracker in CDF and DZERO, a upgrade that was unfortunately rejected... That probably made the difference between the actual situation now, with the Tevatron having an expected sensitivity of less than 2-sigma for a Higgs boson at 125 GeV, and the situation we could have been in if the upgrades had been funded.

    So the above should be taken to mean that I believe I have indeed contributed sizeably to the paper appeared two days ago in the arxiv. Should I drop my signature on the paper based on the fact that I disagree with the way the result is reported ?

    You be the judge.

    Comments

    Tommaso,

    this is time you go straight to the point (well... even if this is a very long post).
    You touch all the relevant arguments that I share and I've been thinking about since I read the paper. Consider the following questions:

    - am I convinced the scientific content of the paper is correct ?
    - do I share the message the paper is putting forward ?
    - would I feel comfortable with defending strongly the content of this paper ?

    no matter what my contribution to the result is, I would sign this paper if and only if the answer to all the questions above is yes.

    One last thing, are you sure the spirit of the current Tevatron analyses isn't very far from what you worked on few years ago ?

    I personally wouldn't sign any papers that attributed any of these 'excesses' as being due to "the" "higgs" particle. They're all simply due to the particle accelerator producing energies that are higher than the base particle production energy resonances for e/m/t production. The different results in different accelerators is due to different particle beam energies and the fact that one collides the anti particle and the other doesn't.

    Hi Tommaso,

    I think we are all entitled to our own opinions - and
    I don't find anything you say offensive - so long as
    the other side of the coin is also flipped. I worry only
    that yours may be the only opinion some popular readers
    may gather.

    I think your fundamental question is whether the Tevatron
    would say the word "evidence" for an approximately
    3 sigma effect (both global and local) in all cases, or
    is it just because the LHC has an observation.

    There is a lot of philosophy in this point. But
    if the Tevatron relies on the body of research that
    itself, LEP, and the LHC have amassed up to this point,
    and not the recent LHC observation, a strong case can
    be made that the Tevatron did the right thing.

    Here is some of the amassed Higgs research available.

    1) Tevatron top and W mass measurements constrain the
    Higgs mass to be less than ~160-ish. LEP says not below 114.

    2) The LHC has previously excluded in published works
    all but 115 - 127 or so in that above region.

    3) The LHC had seen 2-3 sigma excesses in the remaining
    mass region. However, the LHC saw them in a region and analyses
    with a high look-elsewhere-effect, meaning there was a high
    probability of a 2 Sigma excess somewhere in the distribution,
    so when accounting for this effect, the global significances were
    less than 2 Sigma. Still, there were indications of a signal.

    4) We trust the SM until proven otherwise. The Higgs boson is
    a part of the SM.

    5) If we accept 1,2,3, and 4 above, we see a consistent picture. Everything
    fits together. The Tevatron then checks its data and finds a ~ 3 Sigma local
    signal that translates to a 3 sigma global signal, in the right place ("right place"
    means not excluded, in a place where the SM predicts, and where previous
    indications have been seen.)

    6) The standard in particle physics for evidence has always been "3 sigma",
    and 5 Sigma for observation. 4.9 Sigma was enough for CMS to declare observation -
    2.9 sigma is what Tev H->bb has in its worse case. These numbers may go up in
    the future (and should for a real signal if more data is added or technique improvements
    are made.)

    7) The reason we take this 3 Sigma standard for evidence and 5 Sigma for
    observation is to take the emotions out of the words "Evidence" and "observation".
    CMS decided that if they hit "5 Sigma", they would say "discovery" - there
    would be no debate. It is the same for evidence. By choosing a standard,
    there is no discussion anymore or emotions to decide the course. As scientists,
    we must be careful not to dictate our findings based on emotions - but instead
    statistics.

    Now I ask you, given 1,2,3,4, 5, 6, and 7 above, at what standard would you
    declare evidence ?

    If Tevatron or LHC had seen a 3 sigma in some MSSM distribution, it would not be
    enough to constitute evidence. After all, the MSSM is not the theory
    we believe, and there is no proof that the MSSM exists. An MSSM
    signal would be consistent with nothing else at this point. DAMA sees a
    9 Sigma signal for dark matter oscillations - however, we don't call that a
    discovery because it contradicts other experiments. In other words, if a
    result doesn't fit in the big picture, it would not be correct to claim evidence
    or discovery.

    But this is not MSSM. This is SM Higgs we have found. It is a standard model
    process; the same as single-top or top-pair production. Okay - there is a
    bit more excitement in this aspect of the standard model, but what we found is
    what we expected - all experiments are consistent - and no experiments are
    inconsistent.

    If 3-Sigma-with-look-elsewhere-effect is not the correct standard for evidence given
    1,2,3,4,5, 6, and 7, and the conclusions above, then what is ?
    Perhaps 3.5 Sigma ? Or 4 Sigma ?
    Should the Tevatron presume to define a new standard for evidence because
    this standard model result is more important than say single-top production ?

    I don't think so. Declaring Evidence for H->bb in this scenario is the only course
    that can be taken given the body of evidence that had already been published
    before this paper was submitted, and given the result that was obtained.
    The Tevatron actually cites the recent LHC observation in its evidence paper, although
    that was not necessary to attain the conclusion of evidence drawn. (The LHC does not
    reference unpublished results in their publications so the Tevatron is offering a favor here.)

    I have also heard LHC people upset that the Tevatron scooped them in some way. The fact is
    Rolf Heuer telegraphed that the LHC would announce a discovery on July 4th, motivating the
    Tevatron to get their less significant result out first. Then in Fabiola's July 4th talk, she specifically
    writes that CMS and ATLAS will put out their observation paper by the end of July, motivating the
    Tevatron to get their evidence paper out quicker. Now, an observation is more important than evidence.
    But this was an important paper to get out there for the Tevatron, and the last opportunity to make
    a significant statement.

    The Tevatron paper, its conclusion of evidence, and its timing were fair, motivated by statistics
    and previous standards, rather than emotion, and done in an efficient manner to make the most
    impact in a timely way. I'd say this was a success for both the Tevatron and the LHC.

    ~Ben

    I think the scientific content of the tevatron paper would be exactly the same without claiming anything. The combination of (correct me if i'm wrong) 6 very complicated analyses from 2 experiments shows a ~3 sigma excess, full stop.

    Would this combination stand by itself to claim evidence of a new particle? No.

    Summarizing your 1-4 points, you need additional input from other analyses, other experiments AND your belief that the SM is correct. Combining all this information, neglecting the fact that you already knew there was a particle there since 1 month ago and you knew the LHC experiments were going to submit a paper by the end of July as they have been claiming since July 4th, and assuming that your analyses are correct you claim evidence of something. Is this the picture you get from the text of the Tevatron paper ? No.

    I hope we agree that what the LHC experiments showed in December was much more convincing than the Tevatron result we are discussing. Did they claim evidence ? No and I think they did the right thing.

    One final remark. In your post you use the standard model argument to provide solidity to the experimental result and making the case for the evidence claim: "since this is expected by the SM, we are more comfortable with the excess we see than if it wouldn't be expected". I know this is rather common, but I am not sure I share this view and definitely I wouldn't use this as an argument to claim evidence.

    "If Tevatron or LHC had seen a 3 sigma in some MSSM distribution, it would not be
    enough to constitute evidence. After all, the MSSM is not the theory
    we believe, and there is no proof that the MSSM exists. An MSSM
    signal would be consistent with nothing else at this point. DAMA sees a
    9 Sigma signal for dark matter oscillations - however, we don't call that a
    discovery because it contradicts other experiments. In other words, if a
    result doesn't fit in the big picture, it would not be correct to claim evidence
    or discovery. "

    Such a thing is sometimes called a Bayesian prior, other times wishful thinking. The belief that something must be there drives your analysis: you stop looking for systematics when something looks like the expected plot and keep looking into it when it does not.
    I've seen the chi^2/ndof for the H->ggs data driven backgrounds from ATLAS. Some methods are convincing, some are simply not the exponentials that are fitted later (chi^2/ndof is simply too big). Overall, for me it could still be a detector effect that enhances the H peak. In the same H->ggs analysis there are other distributions not shown in the observation paper, where data/MC disagree in a way that it could indicate non-SM Higgs. What about those? Your argument would be invalid then calling it an evidence. I could go on, most of my scepticism comes from the hurried publication of the LHC results, I see less details of the tevatron H->bb than Tomasso.

    Anonymous, the quote you cite from me I never said.
    .
    Does 3 sigma signify evidence? Yes. That is our standard.
    Does evidence from one experiment constitute discovery?
    No. Many people seem to not understand the difference
    Between evidence and discovery.

    If the Tevatron was contradicting previously
    published work, would it claim evidence?
    That did not come up- but would warrant additional
    discussion. But the Tevatron is in agreement
    with previously published work.

    If a group claims evidence, the correct thing to do is to check
    other experiments to see if it is consistent. With more data and
    alternate experiments finding proof, a discovery may be made.

    T., if I were you I would sign it. I may be wrong, but as I understand it, so far, CERN has not observed fermionic decays of the Higgs, whether to bbar or taus, so this may be the first claimed "observation" of bbar decays.
    Unless you believe the Higgs-like particle discovered by CERN will only exhibit bosonic decays, it would make sense to be among the first to exhibit at least preliminary evidence of fermionic decays.

    dorigo
    Hello DB,

    thank you for your input. You are transparently utilitaristic - that is, you put personal interest above the ethical issue at hand; this is a perfectly legal stand though. Am still considering the issue.

    Cheers,
    T.
    T., you are fortunate to be in a position where your personal interest and serendipity appear to converge. This happens rarely in the life of a physicist. Those who don't seize it get forgotten by history.
    To clarify, what I'm saying is that if you genuinely believe the particle discovered by CERN is truly the SM Higgs, or, at the very least that it can exhibit fermionic decays similar to the SM Higgs, then, as a member of CDF - which looks to be the first to announce preliminary observations of fermionic Higgs decays - it is in your interest to sign. Not least because the discovery strategy employed by CDF is so intimately linked to the last twenty years of your own research interests.
    But the first assumption is crucial. If the CERN particle turns out to only decay through bosonic channels, then CDF will have egg on its face. It will be accused of jumping on a bandwagon, or "discovery bias" in the more restrained language of physics.

    A h->bb rate twice larger than the SM rate would reduce the WW and ZZ rates, that instead have been observed at LHC to be consistent with SM predictions. So most likely this "evidence" is a statistical fluctuation.

    Tommaso thank you for that it was a very frank and interesting article.

    Can I also ask for your comment that it appears CERN is going to great lengths now to not talk about it being the higgs but something higgs like. For example (http://phys.org/news/2012-08-cern-teams-higgs-boson-papers.html) it seems to painstakingly explain around the result.

    Initially I was confused by the coyness until I was reading Jesters blog and how we could resolve the production rate of Higgs being higher than SM predicts. When he started talking about the most plausible interpretation of the current data if the excess rate holds the penny dropped.

    Would a not quite standard SM higgs change your position on the paper?

    A h->bb rate twice larger than the SM rate would reduce the WW and ZZ rates, that instead have been observed at LHC to be consistent with SM predictions. So most likely this "evidence" is a statistical fluctuation.

    On the basis of "The Higgs is certainly there at 125 GeV where the LHC experiments have found it," you should sign it, because you believe in the result. After all, the sigma stuff is a bit childish. I mean, they should be computing the chance that it is a particle/resonance that is not the Higgs, not the chance above background!!! Nobody thinks it is background. Even the people who think it isn't the Higgs.

    dorigo
    Thank you for your input Jason. I agree that the rush to three or five sigma is childish. However, it is the lack of clarity of the text (not saying "we interpret this as a particle given the LHC find") what bothers me. The result is certainly sound and I do not doubt any of the findings.

    Cheers,
    T.
    Just some more color on this. Firstly, you have to understand the situation with first to discover alters everything. So cut your collaborators some slack. They are under the gun and want to keep their jobs. Second, it is all about trust. Most people hearing of the Higgs have no degree in physics. So they have to trust names. From that perspective, if your mom asks "So is this the Higgs?" You'd answer, "Yes, ma, it the Higgs alright." So you need to sign it. If you have doubts (lack of correct fermion decay rates?, douobts about mass supposed to be coming from Higgs but wait - the Z and W already have mass without the Higgs?, etc.) then you should ask for removal.

    That issue settled, I looked at the paper and frankly this is such a huge collaboration I don't have familiarity with it. Also, the paper seems to lack the details required to actually reproduce the results, which increases the trust requirement. (There should be a hyperlink to the raw data or something IMO.) In my days, if you weren't involved in the editing or reviewing of the draft (before preprint form), and hadn't seen the code or at least known most all the details required to write the paper yourself, you ethically had to ask that your name be taken off, and I know of cases where that happened.

    Jason

    If ATLAS and CMS Higgs like boson results start to converge into SM cross-section in H->gammagamma, would this mean, discovery was announced based on fluctuation? Are you sure you want to sign such a discovery paper?

    dorigo
    You are wrong, Anon, discovery was announced because two experiments independently found a 5-sigma result, consistent across several channels. Even the low tau-tau CMS result is not improbable given the mix of final states studied.

    In any case, my objection to the Tevatron paper is not that the 3-sigma are an upward fluctuation. My main objection is, as I wrote in length (but I will summarize it since you obviously did not read with full attention), is that they should have explained that their claim was resting on the solid ground of the LHC find; otherwise, their publication would need to have had much more cautious remarks.

    Best,
    T.
    T- While your objections are clearly stated, you do note that you were not part of the discussions leading up to the paper. So I guess I would then ask, do you trust your CDF collaboration to have discussed exactly those objections you have raised here? If so, I think you need to lean to signing as you have implicitly trusted their judgement on how the results of the experiment are presented. Have you been unable to discuss the paper with those who were involved in the prepublication talks?

    dorigo
    Hi AS,
    I was not "unable to"; rather, I have stopped dealing with CDF business a while ago. I could have discussed the paper in as much detail as I wanted, although it would have sounded a bit weird since I have not participated in earlier reviews.
    Anyways, thanks. I have decided to sign the paper, anyway. If only because taking one's name off is never a nice sign.

    Cheers,
    T.