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    Arctic Ice August 2010 - Update #2
    By Patrick Lockerby | August 11th 2010 05:56 PM | 31 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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    Retired engineer, 60+ years young. Computer builder and programmer. Linguist specialising in language acquisition and computational linguistics....

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    Arctic Ice August 2010 - Update #2

    Since I last posted an update, many things have happened in the Arctic and sub-Arctic.

    In my last update - Arctic Ice August 2010 - Update #1 - I noted that there were no floes in the main pack bigger than 35km2.  I invited my readers to find a floe bigger than that anywhere in the main ice pack.  Nobody did.  Yes, there were a few bigger floes - even big enough to be called ice islands - but they were not in the main pack.

    The more fragmented the main pack is, the less likely it is that floes will over-ride each other and form thick sheets.  Instead, as they bump into each other they will either fragment more or cause partial immersion.  The swamped ice - negative freeboard ice - will melt faster if the local water temperature is above 0oC.

    In addition to being highly fragmented and mobile, many areas have meltwater pools on the ice.  The following images show just how warm the Arctic is.  Under cloud, as one might expect, a pool of meltwater may begin to freeze over.  If the ice moves on from frazil to nilas, then snow can settle on it.  Even when a week sun shines through a gap in the clouds, the feeble heat is not enough to melt the snow and ice.  But yet it melts.


    Melt pool lightly iced over


    Ice begins to thicken
    .

    After a snowfall, snow remains on pool, demonstrating the presence of surface ice.
    .

    Despite cloud cover, most of the snow on the pool has melted.
    I suggest that, since other snow shows no sign of melting, this pool must contain relatively warm water.  If temperatures under cloud near the pole are warm enough to melt snow then it follows that temperatures must be higher in areas not under cloud.
    images source: http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html


    The following Arctic mosaic animation shows central ice mobility and the continued penetration of open water towards the pole.  Note the smoke from the fires near Moscow, bottom right, and smoke from Canada drifting towards the NWP, top left.



    Animation of Arctic mosaic August 01 - August 10
    source images: http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/

    The central pack can clearly be seen to be highly mobile.  This means that it can readily be compacted by winds which are favorable to ice thickness recovery - if they occur.  Note that at any one time most of the central area is cloud free.  This promotes melt from direct insolation.  However, much, if not most melting is likely to be from from penetration of warm currents.


    The year's major Arctic and sub-Arctic events:

    Volcano In Iceland Grounds UK Flights - Eyjafjallajökull,Gígjökull, Jökulhlaup, Gosmökkur.
    The volcano, obviously, was not triggered by global warming.  However, the ash falling on nearby glaciers had a significant impact on local albedo.  In a warming world, every loss of albedo is highly significant.


    Eyjafjalla volcano, bottom left, and nearby ice cap contamination.
    detail from source image:
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Arctic_r01c03.2010223...



    Taiga and Tundra fires: collectively the greatest number of large fires yet seen.
    Russia, the country's top weatherman gloomily announced yesterday, is in the grip of its fiercest heatwave in a thousand years. Looking around, you can see what he means. The Kremlin is blanketed in thick smog from fires ringing the Russian capital; the sun, when visible, is a tiny orange orb; and a vast swath of central Russia, the world's largest country, is ablaze.
    ...
    The impact on the country's agricultural sector has been serious. A crop-growing area equal to a mid-sized European country has gone up in flames or shrivelled to nothing, forcing the government to halt grain exports for the rest of the year. Since Russia is the world's third largest wheat exporter, the decision matters. Prices have risen sharply on world grain markets, triggering gloomy forecasts that bread prices in the UK and elsewhere may have to rise.
    ...
    It is no surprise that Moscow, a city of 11 million, is emptying out. Those who can leave do, and those who cannot leave lock themselves inside their Soviet-era tower block flats with all the windows firmly shut.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7936150/Who-can-...
    I suggest that although smoke tends to have a cooling effect by blocking sunlight, the fact that the fires occurred in a heatwave means that smoke drifting over ice is a signal of warm air drifting over the ice.  Once the 'boots on the ground' data is in I would expect confirmation that the fires in Russia have directly contributed to Arctic warming.

    Glacier calving:

    Jakobshavn Glacier

    The widely reported calving of Jakobshavn Glacier July 06 2010 was followed shortly after by a second and seemingly greater calving so far unreported except by the world's most accurate source of science news.  The second calving occurred on or after July 11 2010.  The following image pair shows the calving quite clearly:


    MODIS Rapidfire images from March 08 and July 19 2010:

    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Arctic_r02c02.2010067...
    http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?subset=Arctic_r02c02.2010200...


    Petermann Glacier

    The calving of the Petermann Glacier ice tongue produced - to the best of my knowledge - the biggest tabular iceberg ever seen in the Arctic.  News reports that it is the biggest ice island since 1962 have given ammunition to climate change deniers: "nothing new here, then."

    The total loss of all ice shelves along the northern coasts of the Queen Elizabeth Islands and Ellesmere Island is a dramatic example of what to expect from global warming.

    Those ice shelves were at least 3,000 years old.  Media reports that Petermann (2010) was the biggest loss of ice from Greenland since 1962 are just plain counterfactual.  Reports of 'biggest ice island since 1962' conflate shelf ice and ice tongues.  It's as if the press reported a truck crash in Oklahoma as: the worst truck crash in Oklahoma since the Greyhound bus crash in Texas.  They are both places, and both were vehicles, so just lump them together.

    In science it is vital that apples should be compared only with apples.

    In probably the single most alarmist-worthy counterfactual piece of reporting on this event, the Washington Post, citing Associated Press managed to get most of the facts wrong.

    by KARL RITTER
    The Associated Press

    Tuesday, August 10, 2010; 5:55 PM
    STOCKHOLM -- An island of ice more than four times the size of Manhattan is drifting across the Arctic Ocean after breaking off from a glacier in Greenland.

    Potentially in the path of this unstoppable giant are oil platforms and shipping lanes - and any collision could do untold damage. In a worst case scenario, large chunks could reach the heavily trafficked waters where another Greenland iceberg sank the Titanic in 1912.

    This sort of alarmist nonsense feeds the data-stream of the global warming denial factories.

    Fact - the giant tabular berg is currently drifting very slowly towards Nares Strait, but is still inside Petermann Fjord.  It is highly likely that debris dropped at the end of Petermann Fjord by past calving has created a bar.  Until the giant tabular berg melts and/or fragments enough to pass over this bar, it is going nowhere.  The normal movement of ice is from Lincoln Sea to Nares Strait.

    As I intimated elsewhere: for Petermann (2010) to end up in the Atlantic is as likely as it is for an elephant to escape from the zoo through the keyhole.  I should add: or the Arctic Ocean.  There have been no icebergs in the North Atlantic shipping lanes this year.  For reasons, please see Iceberg Alley And Global Warming.

    After posting my article Arctic Newsflash! Petermann Ice Tongue Loses Huge Chunk August 05 2010 I was far too exhausted to deal with emails.  On August 06 2010 I emailed Associated Press, National Geographic and the UK's Guardian.  I have yet to receive the courtesy of an acknowledgment of my emails.

    This year has been a year in which events predicted to arise from global warming have proceeded apace.

    Badly worded and unresearched media reports of the Petermann event have given ammunition to global warming deniers.  It will take some time to undo the damage.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I would have liked to cover a lot more ground, but haven't the energy at the moment.

    I will cover the region of Flade Isblink, Zachariea and 79N glaciers in a separate article.

    More Arctic related articles:
    The ChatterBox Arctic Index

    Blatant plug:
    Please help raise funds for the victims of the floods in Pakistan by clicking this link:
    Tears For Pakistan

    Comments

    Patrick, thank you for this very informative article. While the Arctic is much more complex than a pond of fresh water, there appear to be some parallels.
    If one watches the ice on a pond melt, as more ice melts there is normally some open water at first around the edges. Most of the pond, however, remains covered with ever thinning ice. Holes may appear in the ever thinning ice yet the pond remains mostly covered, then suddenly "poof" the ice is all gone. On the other hand ice volume on the pond would show a steady decline of ice.
    The climate change deniers see the ice cover on the Arctic as "normal variation" and never mention ice volume which appears to be in steady decline being at this point much closer to "0" than average. http://psc.apl.washington.edu/home.php
    Reiterating that the Arctic is much more complex than a pond, I would still, however, expect the last of the Arctic ice to disappear very rapidly when the Arctic ice volume reaches a critical point where the thinning-spreading process can no longer keep up with the melting.

    Hi Vaughn,

    I totally agree with you, I dont believe the arctic sea was more fragmented as it is right now, so the ice extend is therefore artificially high (it simple takes more room/area), and the fragmentation is high because because of extreme thinning, and we are getting closer to collapse of the arctic ice, it could very well be next year with the same conditions as this year. I have never seen so much rotten ice at the top!

    Regards Espen

    Espen,
    It certainly looks that way. The ice volume trend line reaches close to "0" next year. I've been thinking 2012 or 2013 for the Arctic ice to be gone or very nearly gone by the end of summer. It is certainly possible that the ice could be gone next summer. IMHO, the consequences of no Arctic ice will increase exponentially... at least for a time.

    Neven
    Patrick, I've added two short animations to my recent Canadian Archipelago blog post. They clearly  show the southward transport of multi-year ice through the channels, sea and strait.
    Hi Patrick,

    Note:
    Less than 200km of shore ice is now left in the Jøkel Bay *), and thats almost the same as the total amount for all of East Greenland.
    *) Off the coast of Zachariae and 79.

    I've noticed a lot of hand waving about the "since 1962" issue by commentators - people who don't think "nothing new here, then" but not knowing about the circumstances of the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf fracture, find themselves having to concede that this event might not be such a big deal after all. Actually it is very unusual.

    You've nailed it again, Patrick - your "Oklahoma truck/Texas bus" analogy is sweet.

    Given that it is tending to rotate anti clockwise, and as it noses out into Nares Strait it will turn even more to the left, I'm not sure that there is a lot to stop it setting sail into Baffin Bay and a relatively quick death. I don't think it will get wedged, but it might run aground - do we know how thick it is?

    I'd lay better odds on the long term survival of that floe in the NWP you mention - although to clarify I take it by "35 km2" you mean 35 km x 35 km? I make it about about 750 sq kms (at least, it occupies 750 pixels on MODIS's 1 km resolution pic). Which makes the whole thing kind of odd, because the 1962 ice island was only ~600 sq kms I gather. Which makes the flow in the NWP the biggest, since before 1962 (but since exactly when, I don't know)

    Neven
    Patrick, you like laughing don't you?


    From ClimateProgress.
    logicman
    Thanks, Neven.

    This may be the only political issue whose results could be catastrophic PERMANENTLY. But the deliberate dust storm thrown up by fossil-fuel-centric interests has succeeded in contaminating and paralyzing the American response. Quite a victory for the deniers! It looks like mass-suicide to me.
    Tom Toles
    ClimateProgress

    To previous commenters:
    Sorry, I've been very busy, but I will try my hardest to catch up with the comments here at science20.com and in my emails.

    Neven, you like laughing don't you?  :-)
    I just finished a three-day stint writing this: Weird World Weather.
    Colorado Bob
    Haven't looked at this yet , but we all knew it was coming -

    Ice Capades – New Iceberg Not What It is “Cracked Up” To Be



    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/08/13/ice-capades-island-not-what-it-is-...
    logicman
    Yep!  There you go.  Thanks for the tip, Colorado Bob.

    I've_Got_a_Lovely_Bunch_of_Cherry-picks
      here they are a standing in a row:
    Big ones, small ones, some as big as your head,
      give them a twist, the truth won't be missed,
    that's what the shaman said.

    Readers will surely recall when WUWT was the first climate news outlet to publish this story on August 5th 2010.
    Well!  I never saw Science 2.0 spelled as W - U - W - T before!
    This iceberg has become a poster child for global warming,
    even though a much larger one broke off the same glacier 50 years ago.
    The same glacier?  So Ward Hunt was a glacier and it was a part of Petermann glacier?  Is that your story?
    Were you playing hooky the day they did geography at infant school, Anthony?

    What part of "Petermann Glacier in Greenland calved the biggest Greenland glacier tabular iceberg ever recorded." don't you understand, Anthony?

    The Ward Hunt ice shelf on the north coast of Ellesmere Island broke up in 1962.  It was absolutely not in Greenland and it was absolutely not a giant chunk of a glacier ice tongue.  Naughty Anthony!  You got caught out telling porkies.  Next thing we know you'll be off telling everybody that coal is better than ice at keeping the Arctic climate stable.

    Researchers last week spotted a 100-square-mile chunk of ice that calved off from the great Petermann Glacier in Greenland’s far northwest. It was the most massive ice island to break away in the Arctic in a half-century of observation.

    WUWT? What's up with that?  Well, it says Arctic!  We can't have that sort of factual reporting.  Let's confuse the issue.  Let's take our readers for suckers and convince them that this is the second massive calving of Greenland's  Petermann Glacier ice tongue in 50 years.

    So what we know is that the glacier is where it was 50 years ago, a bigger chunk broke off 50 years ago, and the rate of ice moving to the sea has not changed. There is absolutely no story here. Our warming friends get more desperate by the day. It is pathetic.
    So what we know is that the glacier is where it was 50 years ago
    No it isn't!

    a bigger chunk broke off 50 years ago
    Implies 'of Petermann Glacier ice tongue'.  No it didn't.

    ... and the rate of ice moving to the sea has not changed
    Too general.  The rate of movement of the Petermann glacier has not changed.  Which does not imply that it will not change, Anthony.

    There is absolutely no story here.
    Watt!  Er, sorry.  What?  Science predicts major effects of global warming and to reinforce the ability of science to make accurate predictions: the calving of this glacier was predicted with reasonable accuracy using different scientific methods.

    Nothing to see, my fawning acolytes: this event does not conform to our shared view of what science ought to be saying in support of my fossil fuel addiction.

    Oh yes!  That beautiful photo of penguins on a rather small ice floe.

    Anthony!  Greenland is not the Arctic.  The Antarctic is not the Arctic.  The Antarctic is in that happy place where all the ice is put back by the magic ice fairy so that you can tell people that sea ice is recovering nicely.

    Oh, dear, Anthony, Anthony!  Compadre, tienes cojones grandes, sin duda!

    But do you have to keep taking them out in public?

    Related - strongly: Weird World Weather
    logicman
    A comment under Watts Up With Truth:

    charles nelson says:
    August 13, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    On a similar theme but different subject.
    ABC radio in Australia stated that the floods in Pakistan
    were “worst in the country’s history”… I wonder how many
    of their listeners realize that Pakistan came into existence
    in 1947?

    Did someone magic the land up out of thin air?

    Archaeological evidence shows that the land once held one of the world's oldest civilizations.

    But the land known today as Pakistan came into political existence in 1971.

    Pakistan was, as a former part of India, effectively ruled by the British since 1757.

    In the 1920s, great works of flood-control and irrigation engineering were carried out.  The usual reports say 'by the British', but it would be more correct to say 'by locals under British overseers'.

    I have seen quite a few of these structures at first hand.  They were quite impressive.  They were designed to cope with the worst rains that anyone of that era could imagine.

    They failed this year to cope with rains which were the worst in the country's history.
    The records of that history go back to the 1700s.

    Sometimes, a writer does not make clear that 'country' is being used to mean 'land'.

    But I wouldn't expect Anthony Watts to try to educate his readers.
    There are none so blind as those who will not see what Watts is up to.

    And scoring points off the victims of a climate disaster is beneath contempt.

    Please read Tears For Pakistan - every click is money in aid for the people of Pakistan - a nation which treated me as an honored guest when I was there.
    Colorado Bob
    Post at WUWT -

    Colorado Bob
    says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    So let me get this straight , climate scientists must cross every “t” and dot every “i”.
    But you get to post pictures of birds that don’t live in Greenland , when writing about Greenland ?

    This iceberg has become a poster child for global warming, even though a much larger one broke off the same glacier 50 years ago.

    I assume you mean the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf in 1962 which is located at Baffin Island , Canada , not Greenland.
    Nice, mix ice shelves and outlet glaciers from different countries .

    By the way the Ward Hunt is still breaking up ……
    Baffin Island Ice Caps Shrink By 50 Percent Since 1950s, Expected To Disappear by Middle of Century
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080128113831.htm

    Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, Largest In Northern Hemisphere, Has Fractured Into Three Main Pieces
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080415205350.htm

    Colorado Bob
    Colorado Bob says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    University of Delaware -

    The last time such a massive ice island formed was in 1962 when Ward Hunt Ice Shelf calved a 230 square-mile island, smaller pieces of which became lodged between real islands inside Nares Strait.

    You guys -

    This iceberg has become a poster child for global warming, even though a much larger one broke off the same glacier 50 years ago.

    This would make this whole post a work of fiction.

    logicman
    Colorado Bob: thanks very much for those.

    I was replying to your first when I spotted your second.

    This geographical data would make his whole post a work of fiction.

    More like: the whole web site is a work of fiction.

    I used to enjoy the mental exercise of checking with WUWT to see if he raised any points worth pursuing.  The site has gone down the tubes.  Graphs get edited without 'edited' notes; comments get deleted if they point out errors.  It's not a science site, it's a data manipulation site and propagandists' training ground.

    The current WUWT article on Petermann Ice Island (2010) is so obviously counterfactual that it is likely to be deleted without notice.  Future researchers will find only a 'nothing to see here' notice.

    I think Watts has been taking lessons in the black art of propaganda from his friend Monckton - a third generation propagandist.

    The picture is from Antarctica and has nothing to do with Petermann Glacier or the Arctic.

    The picture is just another picture from just another website.

    This is an old trick: the psychology of proximity.

    If you make a written statement and put any sort of pictorial content near it, or speak while standing next to a poster, most people will unconsciously link the words with the image. 

    No explicit words need be used to link the message to the image.
    This is a very sneaky tactic.  Used to good effect in 1930s Germany by a little-known b*** called Goebells - you may not have heard of him.

    Note the subtle placement of the image and the words 'poster child'.  Watts knows a heck of a lot more about human psychology than he does about weather or climate.

    The trick - and it really is a trick -  leads readers to assume that climate scientists have issued the picture as a pro- AGW poster.  You have to hand it to the guy - he has learned much at the feet of the propaganda-meister Monckton.

    But he can't mix math and logic to save his life.

    So what we know is that the glacier is where it was 50 years ago, a bigger chunk broke off 50 years ago, and the rate of ice moving to the sea has not changed.

    Yup!  Petermann Glacier is still just where it was 50 years ago.  Hasn't moved to California yet.

    Or did he mean the calving front?  Let's assume he means the calving front, CF.

    1 - CF is exactly where it was 50 years ago.
    2 - CF retreated substantially 50 years ago.
    3 - the rate of advance of CF has not changed.

    Cherry-pick your way out of that logical mares-nest Anthony!
    Colorado Bob
    1. This would make this whole post a work of fiction.

      REPLY: Yes there’s a lot of fiction flying around about this iceberg, mostly in the media and from clueless politicians, but I don’t see you complaining about things like this gem. Since you made no comment against this, I suppose you agree then? – Anthony

    2. Colorado Bob says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      All I know is you guys said that the Peterman calved an ice berg ” 50 years ago ” , it didn’t. So “What’s Up With That” ?

    3. Colorado Bob says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      We’re not discussing what some congressman said, we’re discussing the fact that you folks got a basic fact wrong, and I have the screen shots to prove it.

    Comment posted at WUWT - awaiting moderation aka cencorship.

    Hans Dampf says:
    August 19, 2010 at 5:07 am

    “whether it was this fellow Lockerby, UD, or the U.S.Navy, WUWT has made no claims of spotting the calving event first, only of being the first to publish the UD press release on August 6th.”

    Irrelevant. Does not address the issue of who was first to publish the news.

    “I never made any claim of being the first to spot the actual calving event. Neither did Goddard.”

    Straw man argument! Ignoratio elenchi.

    Gunther gave proof: Steve Goddard was not first to publish the news – 6th August.

    Comment posted at WUWT - awaiting moderation aka cencorship.

    Patrick Lockerby was actually first to publish the news – 5th August.

    You have mail:
    http://www.science20.com/chatter_box/letter_anthony_watts

    When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

    wattsupwiththat.com/2010/08/13/ice-capades-island-not-what-it-is-cracked-up-to-be

    logicman
    Hans Dampf.  Now where have I heard that name before?  ;-)

    Anthony Watts, Steve Goddard, Christopher Monckton, Joe D'Alio: all will continue trying to put up their barricades of BS between valid climate science and lawful democratic process until they are dragged kicking and screaming into court to answer for their actions.

    "In englischsprachigen Ländern ist der Jack of all trades das Pendant zum Hansdampf in allen Gassen."
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansdampf_in_allen_Gassen
    Colorado Bob
    Patrick -
    The first thing I ever really followed on the web was 10 years ago , when B-15 broke off Antarctica.

    I've wasted a lot of keystrokes with these people, and I'm a fair propagandist myself.  But I never logged on to WUWT until tonight, and I just had to shoot that fish, in that barrel.
    logicman
    stevengoddard says:
    August 13, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    Colorado Bob

    Ummm…it is called a joke.

    Anyway, haven’t you seen the Coke commercial with the Polar Bears and Penguins partying together?
    So WUWT is now an advertising campain site?

    Oh!  Wait a minute!  It is!  It is!

    Now where have I seen the 'it's a joke' theme before?  Ah yes: Monckton, on being caught lying about having a Nobel Prize gold pin - it's a fake btw - said "It's a joke."

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/nobleman-is-no-nobel-man-201001...

    But wait!  If I were to write a letter to an honorable man like Senator McCain addressing the serious problems of climate - there is no way on earth that I would joke about being a joint recipient of a Nobel Prize.


    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/reprint/letter_to_mccain.html

    It's an open letter, which puts it squarely in the public domain, so just in case anyone wants to remove or modify the original here it is:
    Letter_to_McCain.pdf

    Monckton is no stranger to counterfactual statements:
    With regard to the complainant's claim to be a member of the House of Lords, the newspaper pointed out that, while the complainant may have a hereditary title, this had been irrelevant to membership of the Upper House of Parliament since 1996. The complainant himself accepted that he had no right to sit or vote in the House of Lords.

    The question of whether the IPCC had taken account of the complainant's ‘contribution' to its 2007 report was irrelevant - the blog was simply, and within the bounds of fair comment, taking a swipe at Viscount Monckton's claim that he could be reasonably termed a Nobel Prize winner because certain statistics in the report had been amended as a result of his intervention.

    As to the claim that he had ‘boasted' of telling untrue stories, the newspaper pointed to an article from the Scotsman (to which the blog had itself linked) in which the complainant admitted to telling a tall tale for personal benefit.
    http://www.pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=NjQwMg
    Colorado Bob
    Patrick -

    Who could have guessed that in our later years we would spend so much time debating the mentally disabled ?
    logicman
    Who could have guessed that in our later years we would spend so much time debating the mentally disabled ?

    Indeed. Harrumph.  Don't tempt me.  :-)
    Colorado Bob
    We have a "Think Tank"  here called the " Heartland Inst. "  They host denier conferences , 3 so far . Their director of science in a fellow named Dr. Jay Lehr.  He's a convicted felon , when he was a ground water engineer, he defrauded the EPA here doing water studies in Arizona.

    It is really is a low crowd that has sold out to the this pile of money.
    logicman
    It is really is a low crowd

    Colorado Bob:  thank you for bringing this WUWT blatant lie to my attention.

    He still hasn't withdrawn his claim of being first to publish.

    I have been following the cherry-pick road for some time now.  It has led me to some very interesting evidence of a collaborative effort to disinform the public about the threat of climate change.

    I've had it up to the ears with these anti-scientists.

    Please see A Letter To Anthony Watts

    We need somebody to tell Watts that he has mail.

    btw, I've noticed that he leaves in hyperlinks to supportive blogs, but he deletes the link - if not the whole comment - when it is from a real science site.  Doing that deprives his readers of the chance to check facts via a simple click.  Devious!
    logicman
    pile of money ?

    pile of something other than!

    Having challenged my insomnia to the hilt, I may be able to sleep now.

    More later >
    Colorado Bob
    I guess it's 2:32 AM on Texas .  Maybe I'll go look for the last meteor.
    logicman
    Rules of propaganda when caught out in a blatant lie:

    1 - twist - in your own - favor - the wording of the claim that was made about lying;

    2 - attack the person of the challenger;

    3 - change the topic.

    Colorado Bob put up a brave fight, as did Günther Kirschbaum - kudos!

    But you can never win an argument with a habitual liar.

    The original  'you lied' challenge:
    Günther Kirschbaum says:
    August 14, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Readers will surely recall when WUWT was the first climate news outlet to publish this story:

    Why do you lie?

    [Reply: With a comment like that you need to provide a verifiable citation. ~dbs, mod.]
    Reasonable request for citation answered:

    Günther Kirschbaum says:
    August 14, 2010 at 9:34 am

    dbs, here’s the  citation, a day ahead of WUWT, and unless someone is checking on UD Scientist on a hourly basis – which I doubt -, I wouldn’t be surprised if the person who tipped off Anthony got it there first.
    Rule 1 applied and words twisted:
    Smokey says:
    August 14, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Günther Kirschbaum says:

    “Why do you lie?”

    So you managed to find a source called “the chatter box” that reported the same thing within 24 hours.

    Explain how you know that makes the author a “liar.”

    Make it good, troll.
    I noticed this event - having predicted it -  and wrote it up as a newsflash August 05 2010 - 24 hours earlier than anybody, including, if you must, the 'after we've cherry-picked the bits we like' anti-science news web site WUWT.

    Anthony Watts false claim is based on his story sourced from a University of Delaware press release dated 1:40 p.m., August 6, 2010.

    Application of a simple linguistic manipulation converts '24 hours ahead' into 'within 24 hours'.

    In the common use of language, 'A within 24 hours of B' carries a very strong implication that the sequence was:  B before A.

    The phrase "reported the same thing within 24 hours" carries the counterfactual implication that I reported Petermann Ice Island (2010) 24 hours after What's Up With Truth.

    This is a classic propaganda trick: it relies on the uncritical response of the reader who is only averagely literate and has never come across Ancient Greek law-court style rhetoric.

    Rule 2 applied - attack the challenger:

    Make it good, troll.
    The challenger has supplied a verifiable source of information, so call him a name to get your readers back 'on message' by distracting their attention from the newly revealed facts and then apply -

    Rule 3 - change the topic:
    stevengoddard says:
    August 14, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Northwest Passage ...

    Propaganda: it ain't rocket science.  In fact it's as easy as 1-2-3.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For a source of information on Petermann Ice Island (2010) that is nowhere near as inaccurate as WUWT, please see:

    http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/20427/greenland-ice-chunk-headed-fo...

    It's a masterly piece of journalism:
    What is unusual about this ice chunk is that it is moving at 150 knots (172 mph).  It could hit Manhattan…in ten hours!
    ...
    Even though some Manhattan residents were screaming in the streets (which had nothing to do with the news), they are ready.
    Neven
    It looks like the Northern Sea Route is opening up.
    Looking forward to watch that race between the Norwegian trimaran and the Russian yacht, around the pole trip.

    Espen

    logicman
    Looking forward to watch that race between the Norwegian trimaran and the Russian yacht, around the pole trip.
    Espen: they are wasting their time.  Watts will claim that he paddled a canvas canoe solo over the same route last year, but had to carry it on his shoulders over all of that 100m thick ice that has been recovering nicely since 2007.

    ;-)
    Neven
    Can't upload the Petermann animation here. Look at that baby turn.

    logicman
    Can't upload the Petermann animation here

    Done and dusted.  Thanks, Neven.